Preschool won't learn DS's signs

[HHH3]

DS2 (2.1) starts preschool 2 mornings a week at the end if the month. His speech is delayed but he has quite a few signs. They're mostly not accurate but they're consistent and he uses them a lot. The little speech he does have is mostly completely not understandable.

We had the home visit the other day and I explained about his speech and signing. They use makaton a lot there which is great...but we use BSL. They were very keen to tell me that he'd pick up makaton very quickly which he probably will. But they weren't interested in learning the signs he uses so they can understand what he's trying to sign.

I'm worried that a) as he learns makaton I won't understand what he's trying to tell me - especially as his signs tend not to be accurate. B) he'll get confused if he learns different signs for things he already has signs for. And c) most importantly, that he's not going to be able to communicate his wants/needs because they won't understand his signs.

For various reasons I'm feeling guilty and unsure about sending him as it is and this really isn't helping. What do I do? Not send him? Kick up a stink about them not learning to understand him (although he's not even started yet so I don't really want to put their backs up already)? Or see how it goes? Really confused about this one

My ds started a nursery where they hadn't used his signing system, but they absolutely embraced learning it.
I would seriously consider finding a pre school setting which will enable your child to fulfill his potential. Having his language ignored will just be another hurdle for him.
As an aside, my ds has picked up a few makaton signs (from Mr Tumble!) without any detriment.
Try not to worry about advocating for your child's needs to be met; because if you don't, who else will?

Hmm really tricky because MAKATON is pushed really hard in early years and the staff have probably invested lots of time and possibly money in their training!

However if your ds needs to use Bsl then he has a right to do that!

I wonder if your Ds would benefit from having a buddy at preschool who could learn his signs and do them with him on a one to one basis.

I do think this would be confusing for your Ds though and it might halt his attempts at communicating especially as there will be spoken language going on as well.

You need to get advice from your Early Years team before he starts.

Good luck

Also 2.1 is very young! Does he need to go or could you take him to stay and play sessions somewhere else where you would be there to support him?

Is there a particular reason for using BSL? Is he likely to be part of the hearing impaired community?

I work in Special Ed, and to be honest BSL is used only with our children who have a very severe hearing impairment (as in it is likely to be their only language), as it is a much more complete form of communication. (remembering my first BSL exams with a shudder )

For children with development and speech delays Makaton is the signing of choice, as it is simpler and used in the majority of special schools, not to mention Mr Tumble being a preschool favourite!

There is a fair amount of cross over anyway, so at aged 2 I would think your son would be able to pick up both.

Can you sit down and have a chat about what signs he uses and what he is likely to 'need' in the near future? There is nothing 'wrong' with using BSL of course, but he might find it isolating in the future if others ae using a different dialect!

Thanks for your replies.

To answer a couple of questions...

He doesn't have to go but I'm a lone parent and after 2 years of doing this 24/7 on my own I desperately need a break. Which is why I'm feeling so guilty and conflicted about this - because it's for me and not him. But I'm fully prepared to pull him out if it's not working.

We use BSL because we started doing baby signing when he was a few months old (obviously not knowing that it'd be so needed in the future) and we still go to classes. So it's just developed from there.

I think I do need to have a talk to preschool. I'm not expecting them to not use makaton with him. And as he learns I'll have to work out what his signs mean so I can understand him. But I'm just worried that by them not even being willing to learn the signs he has already they won't be able to understand him. They don't even need to use them and can use the makaton equivalent instead. It's purely about them being able to understand him

To be fair preschool staff are fairly used to working out what little ones want!

I work in early yrs and you would be amazed how many 2 yr olds come to us with little or no language, not forgetting the bi lingual ones who only have a tentative grip on their home language never mind their second one

Why dont you have a chat with them?! You might find that the signs are not disimilar especially as your Ds isnt doing them that acurately!!

You are right, a break would do you good but if you are constantly worrying about him you wont get any benefit from the break and will send yourself do lally!

Make an appointment and go in and chat with them

I agree with Medusa , unless you are using BSL structure & syntax there should be minimum issues with changing over as Makaton crosses over on a lot of basic signs. Plus if he's speaking (or aiming to) speak alongside signing then BSL won't work long term due to sentence structure and many signs not using the word.

Some special schools do use BSL as part of a total communication approach, medusa.

Thanks all.

It'll probably be fine and he'll pick it up easily. And they'll probably work out what he means as well.

I guess I'm just worried at their lack of willingness to even learn a few of his most basic and used signs (especially as they're not 'correct' so they may not make the link between them and the makaton sign). And also that I'm not going to be able to understand the new signs he learns (and therefore not understand him). If he's not doing a new sign correctly then how will I know what it's supposed to be, especially if it's put of context?

Think I'd better speak to them next week.

This is a really hard question to answer, but do you see yourselves using sign language for a long time to come?

If you can see yourself using the signs only until DS's language develops better - say, to a point where he can understand spoken word sentences and make himself understood with his own spoken language - then I would transition over to Makaton as he starts at pre-school. There are more similarities than differences with Makaton & BSL signs, especially at an iconic level, and you and he will adapt pretty quickly.

OTOH, if you think that DS might need to rely on sign support for the long-term - putting sentences together, understanding multiple-element instructions, and the like - I would stick to my guns with BSL as your main signing tool.

BSL opens up a wider range of vocabulary, and is a more subtle and expressive language to use than Makaton. It's true that BSL syntax and grammar are both utterly different from spoken English, and it's nigh-on impossible to use both simultaneously. But Sign-Supported English (SSE) makes use of BSL signs whilst using English grammar. That might be your best bet if you're thinking about long-term use of signing.

I honestly don't know ugger.

His understanding is very good as far as I can tell. He certainly understands instructions. Whether he understands when I explain things to him is hard to tell as he doesn't have the vocabulary to tell me.

He's just been referred for speech therapy. Well, he was referred at the beginning of December and we've heard nothing at all so far.

So, I have no idea what the problem actually is and what we can expect in the future.

On top of this, the handful of words he has are nowhere near understandable unless I tell someone 'he's saying X' (apart from a couple that are ok...ish). So they're not going to be able to understand those either

And also that I'm not going to be able to understand the new signs he learns (and therefore not understand him)

If you do go ahead with this placement, can you ask to be given the new signs they are teaching him at the same time so you will know too?

Good idea! I'll ask about that too. Thank-you.

If you go ahead with the placement, then expect to watch a lot of Something Special! Also look out for Makaton courses in your area - Cerebra run some, but there are other approved trainers, too. It's very easy to pick up.

It would be just bloody minded not to have someone learn the few signs that your DS is using, though, so that he has a means of communication with a key worker until he learns to use their own means. We've never succeeded in teaching DS2 to sign consistently - he simply doesn't have the motor planning skills for it. He does have a consistent sign, of his own, for when he wants something, though. He was 7 before PECS clicked with him, too.

I'll have a look around. Went to the library earlier and ordered a book and nursery rhyme DVD too.

I really don't have a problem with him learning makaton. But I think that the attitude towards learning at least some of the signs that he does have is what's really worrying me. It's really not inspiring confidence in me.

HHH, if you have any spare cash knocking about, now would be a great time to get a private speech and language therapist in.

It's hard to tell when your case will end up being top of the NHS therapists' list - it could be several months, and you might not get a decent block of therapy time after initial assessment. A decent therapist will help you get to the bottom of his expressive language problems, and give you some pointers for stuff that you can carry out at home.

Ooh, is it that Dave Benson Phillips Makaton Nursery Rhymes DVD?

Do they seem comfortable and practised with Makaton? It might be a reflexive reaction against BSL as a perceived long-term commitment ("it's harder, you need to go on courses that cost more money etc") - but if they're not willing to learn a few of his BSL signs simply to bridge the initial communication gap in the first few weeks, then yes - that doesn't sound good.

He had a private SALT assessment last month. I can find the money for some sessions if I have to. Do you think it's worth it? I'll ring on Monday to find how long we'd expect to wait with NHS but yes, I guess I'm expecting quite a wait and not an awful lot of sessions.

No idea what the DVD is! The library staff were looking on the computer for makaton stuff, said there's a DVD and asked if I wanted to order it so I just said yes

Will see what they say this week. If they're still saying they're not willing to learn even a few of his signs then I think we have a bigger problem in general.

He has other issues as well and I'm starting to wonder how supportive they're going to be about anything now.

Unless he is HI though, and going to sign instead of speaking throughout his life, then Makaton makes FAR more sense so use to support speech development as it is sign supported English and the signs do that - support spoken English. If you are using BSL, then it is about learning a different language, and the structure of each sentence is different. It makes no sense to use BSL unless that is going to always be his main language.

That said, the vast majority of signs a 2 yr old would be likely to use, will be exactly the same in both BSL and Makaton anyway!

I understand what you're saying backforgood. And yes, makaton does make more sense. Like I said, I'm happy for him to learn makaton and for us to use it. It's more the attitude that they won't learn any of the signs that he already uses in the meantime. So he effectively will have almost no communication at all. And I'm worried about the impact that's going to have on him settling in there and enjoying it.

As far as I am aware delayed speech is quite common at that age so I wouldn't worry to much, especially as you are already in the SLT system now.

Again, I'm not sure why you feel the need to use BSL unless you are expecting your ds to have hearing or communication difficulties? (delayed speech at 2 isn't necessarily indicative of this) BSL is very specialist and quite tricky to learn and in my experience only used for children with a hearing impairment.

Try not to let it colour your judgement of your nursery, it sounds like you need a break and as long as you don't have any other concerns it could be exactly what the doctor ordered!!

I think it would be worth investing in more private SALT time, provided that you get a sharp, practically-minded SALT who can help give you the tools you need to help DS with his expressive language.

Did the private SALT assessment give you any useful pointers on what might be holding your DS back, or what activities you can do at home to help his development?

If the answer to either of those questions is no, then it's probably better to either find someone else - either another private therapist, or holding on for the NHS if your call on Monday turns out to be positive with the wait-time and number of sessions.

Ellie - we only started using BSL as that's what's used a baby signing (which we still go to). It was supposed to be something we went to and enjoyed together and aided his communication before speech. I never imagined we'd be using it so much and for so long.

It's more their unwillingness to learn how he communicates until he picks up makaton rather than what signs we use which concerns me.

Ugger - she didn't say what she thought the cause was. Did give me a few suggestions but they were things I'm already doing.

I think I'll see what they say on Monday and then take it from there.