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SN children

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Original poster

Preschool won't learn DS's signs

51 replies

HHH3 · 17/01/2015 08:56

DS2 (2.1) starts preschool 2 mornings a week at the end if the month. His speech is delayed but he has quite a few signs. They're mostly not accurate but they're consistent and he uses them a lot. The little speech he does have is mostly completely not understandable.

We had the home visit the other day and I explained about his speech and signing. They use makaton a lot there which is great...but we use BSL. They were very keen to tell me that he'd pick up makaton very quickly which he probably will. But they weren't interested in learning the signs he uses so they can understand what he's trying to sign.

I'm worried that a) as he learns makaton I won't understand what he's trying to tell me - especially as his signs tend not to be accurate. B) he'll get confused if he learns different signs for things he already has signs for. And c) most importantly, that he's not going to be able to communicate his wants/needs because they won't understand his signs.

For various reasons I'm feeling guilty and unsure about sending him as it is and this really isn't helping. What do I do? Not send him? Kick up a stink about them not learning to understand him (although he's not even started yet so I don't really want to put their backs up already)? Or see how it goes? Really confused about this one

OP posts:

Frusso · 17/01/2015 18:00

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Oodbrain · 17/01/2015 18:12

What signs does he currently use? Have you compared them to their Makaton counterpart?

Original poster

HHH3 · 17/01/2015 18:14

I think so too frusso but they're not interested.

If his signs were accurate then yes, they'd probably understand what he's saying. But some of them are very different to what they should be. So really I'm not asking them to learn BSL signs - I'm asking them to learn his signs so that they can understand him.

OP posts:

Original poster

HHH3 · 17/01/2015 18:25

Currently things like more, car, train, various foods and animals, mummy - he has quite a few. I haven't looked at the crossover yet but even if they're very similar (which I'm sure they mostly are) the way he does them isn't necessarily understandable unless you know.

OP posts:

elliegoulding · 17/01/2015 18:42

How does he sign 'Mummy' for example? If the staff are trained in Makaton or Signalong, and his signs aren't 'Bsl' perfect they may be able to understand what he is communicating pretty quickly anyway.

Oodbrain · 17/01/2015 18:42

They'll be pretty much all the same then. If they're any good they'll recognise his variations as it will be common for children not to be accurate.

Original poster

HHH3 · 17/01/2015 18:50

Ok, mummy in BSL is 3 fingers tapping the forehead. Having just looked up the makaton sign it's 3 fingers on the palm of the hand. His sign is 1 finger touching the side of his head. All completely different.

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hazeyjane · 17/01/2015 18:53

Ds is non verbal, and uses Makaton, but a lot of his signs are made up by him, or his version of a Makaton sign! I made a little book when he started school, with his 'peculiar' signs - a rough line drawing ( I guess you could use a photo?)

It is kept in his bag, and looked at if no-one understands what he is signing, his 1-1 has got to know most of his signs as time goes on.

As he has got older, we have taught him the correct sign, and the teachers model the correct signs. On a Makaton course I attended recently, I kept doing one of ds's signs by mistake, and she said that ds's sign was much better than the Makaton sign, and she would see if they would change it!

hazeyjane · 17/01/2015 18:56

cross posted - so ds would always sign 'daddy' as 1 finger in the middle of the palm, whereas the Makaton sign is index and middle finger of dminant hand tapping same fingers of non dominant hand - school know that ds always says daddy by putting his finger in his palm, so when he does that thay say, 'daddy' and do the correct sign back.

Frusso · 17/01/2015 20:50

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signandsingcarols · 17/01/2015 21:04

not sure if this is relevant but ds (who has ASD) was pretty non verbal until about 4.5 yrs but had sign vocab in the hundreds and could sign 3 and 4 sign sentences. He has no hearing impairment and we were using SSE with him (I am fluent BSL signer as I used to be a social worker with Deaf People and have a number of D/deaf friends)

Like most kids he had some idomatic signs but they were explainable. (eg he sign names he used for people; my sister was 'auntie navel' as he was obsessed by her belly button) One nursery and school were not willing to learn sign / his signs and we steered clear of them, I actually went in to the school we chose and did some training for the staff esp his TA and he managed fine, (Is now very verbal, not necessarily understandable but thats the ASD) I just wanted to second what other posters had said above, SSE uses the signs of BSL with English syntax and grammar doing that with my ds allowed him to have usuable language now, while also giving him examples of speech along with the signs.

Frusso · 17/01/2015 21:07

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LongDivision · 17/01/2015 21:38

I would let the nursery teach him Makaton. If it's anything like learning another language at that age, he won't be confused. He will quickly pick up the new sign language at nursery, but will still use yours with you at home.

uggerthebugger · 18/01/2015 07:22

I make everybody correct twinkle twinkle little star. Because dc can name body parts

Is it because otherwise they'd be signing "Like a fanjo in the sky" ??

Frusso · 18/01/2015 07:27

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Stealthpolarbear · 18/01/2015 07:38

Op this isn't about the similarities or differences is it
It's about their refusal to be flexible and to consider his needs, try to understand him from the start

Original poster

HHH3 · 18/01/2015 07:55

Exactly stealth. I really do appreciate the points people have made re BSL/makaton etc. But it's the fact that they're not even interested in learning a few of his basic signs just until he can express himself another way.

So, if he's upset and wants me he'll point to his head. Are they going to know he's saying he wants mummy? Or are they going to think he's hurt his head???

OP posts:

Frusso · 18/01/2015 08:22

This reply has been deleted

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Original poster

HHH3 · 18/01/2015 09:44

I'm going to see what they say when I speak to them. The manager might say something different to the person I spoke to before. Or I suppose when he has his first settling in session (which I stay for) I can just show his key worker then.

I'd actually prefer a childminder to a nursery and I think he would too. But unfortunately I can't find any round here that take the 2 year old funding.

But yes, if they're not going to change their stance on this then I'll look at other nurseries.

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2boysnamedR · 18/01/2015 09:58

Did you talk to the senco or room leader? I only ever dealt directly with ds room leader. If it's one person saying they are inflexible or the settings inflexibility?

I have had been honest and upfront with my toddlers needs before he started settings, yet still met resistance.

You might be better finding somewhere like a sure start nursery. People with closed minds don't normally change then everything becomes a battle

elliegoulding · 18/01/2015 10:01

I apologise, I thought you wanted them to be officially taught BSL! I would print off a list of his regular signs and give it to them, I'm sure they will refer to it if they are struggling to understand what he is trying to communicate ... He'll probably come on in leaps and bounds with his communication once he starts ore school

BackforGood · 18/01/2015 13:23

I'm sure they would be very happy for you to explain that if he points to his head, he means 'Mummy', but that's very different from saying 'they won't learn BSL'.

All little ones who aren't talking (and some who are) have indicators that they want this or that and the Nursery will be very used to dealing with that and communicating with all the children individually. That, however has got nothing to do with BSL. Maybe the person you spoke to, picked up on the 'BSL' theme, rather than the 'I'm worried no-one will understand what he wants' concern because of the way you phrased it.

senvet · 18/01/2015 22:55

I am no expert in signs, but just wanted to say 'good luck'

Original poster

HHH3 · 19/01/2015 14:10

Thanks for all the messages. I do think that I probably didn't word things well and that they only really picked up on 'BSL'.

Have just spoken to the manager. She thinks me explaining his signs to his key worker is a very good idea. She'll then ask his key worker to feed this back to the rest of the staff so that they all understand him.

So, problem solved and all that worrying was for nothing

OP posts:

2boysnamedR · 19/01/2015 14:25

Fantastic!

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