Aba - school has said no :(

[sammythemummy]

I'm so angry at them for wasting my time like this, the ahead said he wanted to speak with another Head (who has ABA running in their school), so I look for one, speak to him and pass his details on and it turns out our ahead didn't even bother to call him??? He just reached a decision it out even meeting my consultant.??

I know it's his school and he can do what he likes but bloody hell, I don't get a say in what intervention my child should get?

He said that they are successful with the team that they currently have, that's SALT who will have 1 session a week (probably work on the turn taking shit that they've been doing for 6months at nursery), ed psychologist (theist ed psychologist was a nice man, but other than scribbling a few things on his notebook and commenting on how lovely my child is-he has zero input in her development) and someone from a special school who helps out with behavioural management.

Am I unreasonable to tell them I do not want any input from this lady from special school?? I've no time for her wishy washy intervention tbh.

The LEA have given us some funding until November for me to use for ABA a home whilst we work it out with school.

Fiona has said to not bother going to tribunal as the LEA have given us money that my dd is actually not entitled to (it was a typo on their part) and because she doesn't have a learning disability and is considered "hfa", itll be hard to prove that ABA is the only intervention that will work for her.

Our next compromise will be to train their LSA and have my consultant to in once a month to help them in behavioural targets and for us to continue ABA at home, but I have a funny feeling they'll say no to that as well.

Arrrggghhhh

Oh this is such a nightmare..

Fiona has a good handle on these things and I would go with her advice.

See if your SENCO allows your consultant to go in regularly

someone from a special school who helps out with behavioural management

You might find that this person is actually doing basic ABA, but giving it another name. Could be worth asking to meet her before deciding. If she's your possible ABA Trojan Horse, maybe you could still find a way to work with the school...

SALT who will have 1 session a week
If the salt spent 4 session/month drawing up a programme, and a stooge spent 1 session/week delivering it in an effective, data-driven manner... right result, wrong name

Is it possible to look at other schools? What about the one with the ABA-friendly head you mentioned?

Sadly not an unusual situation. We had exactly this with our school, despite us actually getting a form of ABA in our statement. Still an ongoing battle much along the lines of what you say. SLT and 'asd support' is meaningless and shows no evidence of help for us.

Not sure about Fiona's logic - my ds is considered HF and no learning disabilities classified but doesn't mean he doesn't need targets! ABA just as meaningful across the whole spectrum, as it works on all levels of behaviour, communication, interaction, play, social skills etc. We did appeal (with Fiona) to get exactly that - la settled before tribunal, so school had no choice really, although they were still resistant (and still are). We now Have situation as you describe, training for TA, targets set by us, regular observations by supervisor etc. Not ideal, but workable. It does help if you get a great teacher who's on board, but obv that's hit and miss. But there's just no point I can see of having a TA for a child who doesnt need classroom support - whats the point of having someone who just sits there babysitting your dd if she doesn't even need it, while doing nothing to work on the behavrioual/ social/interaction stuff she does need help with?

Could you try and get your tutors employed by school as TAs and top up the difference? Unusual but not unheard of.

I'd try again and meet with the head - give him clear outline of how it would work etc. Ime schools are scared of the unknown, and think they're the experts because they have brilliant outside expertise (not) - but once they've seen how it really can be, they might be more open. First battle is getting them to even look at it though - be bullish. Our head is still exactly like yours, doesn't want to open his eyes, but I now have all dealings with the deputy (who's also the Senco), which is working better.

bialy the other ABA friendly school is all the way in South London- opposite side of the river :(

I've jut spoken to a not so good school around our area and the SENCO has asked I come in and see how we ca support her after mentioning ABA.

So I have to go through this whole process again! It's emotionally exhausting!! You'll think I'm trying to sell them car insurance

This SENCO has actually congratulated me on how pro active I've been with my dd- let's just see if they will allow it to continue in their premises.

With our local school I really think that it comes down to funding and the act that they have 4 other children with severe asd and no statement. The head kept reiterating that it's a hard year for them.

I have asked for another meeting to see if they'll allow flexi schooling and training their staff so we'll see

I've spoken extensively with Fiona, she said that our LEA is not anti ABA at all, they just don't want to give away too much money. They have already given us a small portion of the funding to do Aba at home until we find a school- as long as the school is on board, they are happy to pay towards that.

She has said that she knows of families who don't even have aba mentioned on the statement but the funding is paid towards it as the school is happy to do so.

I could go to tribunal, but if no schools want it/are happy with it then what?

meir it really doesn't sound like aba at all tbh...it's not monitored nor is it intensive...

How has training an LSA worked? Did your son regress?

So Sammy, the LEA will fund ABA but school dont want that funding? That doesnt seem right.

This "not-so-good" school, are they open to trying ABA? if yes, I would move DD to that school in a heartbeat.

"Am I unreasonable to tell them I do not want any input from this lady from special school?? I've no time for her wishy washy intervention tbh."

Yes. Very unreasonable. You're making the same kind of judgements that led the head to turn down your request for ABA - judging a book by its cover.

My LA use DD1's SS to give outreach support to over 60 schools in the area. Their behavioural management is all about data and patterns of behaviour.

The thing is about outside intervention in a mainsream school is that it's only a short session a week - for progress to be made, intervention has to be consistent and constant. So unless the TA (and teacher) is using the same approach, taking data, working specifically on targets all the time, having a consistent approach to behaviour, and using every opportunity for NET, it's meaningless. Mainstream schools ime just don't get this. A weekly 30 minute session, even from the best expert, just doesn't do much unless the rest of the adults working with the child continue with the work.

Sammy, it sounds like you're in a good position though, if the LA have agreed to ABA, and to fund it. Is it actually specified on your statement? If so, how can the school oppose it? And, if you have funding agreed, why is the Head making noises about funding and other children?

I tend to agree with salondon that it's worth looking at the not-so-good school - you may have to weigh the balance between a school which is good (for other children, not necessarily yours) but which doesn't want ABA, against a school which you might otherwise discount but happily accepts ABA.

In answer about my ds: reception was ok (once we'd got through the appeal etc which took half the year), as we had our ABA tutors 3 days a week. Y1 was brilliant, as we had a tutor in one day a week, and an amazing TA who came to all our home workshops, worked really closely with us, and just 'got' the approach. We also had a great Y1 teacher.

But Y2 was disastrous. Our tutor went on maternity leave, so no direct ABA, our great TA left replaced by a new one who is basically nice but totally ineffective and just babysits, teacher was rubbish. Ds's behaviour went totally downhill, he made virtually no progress in any social targets, his motivation plummeted, he started showing repetitive behaviours which he hadn't done since he was 3yo, and he was really really unhappy, from Christmas until summer.

This year we look a bit more back on track, ABA tutor is back part-time so will go in to train TA, and the class teacher is great. Still have useless TA but hopefully the ABA tutor will make some progress there.

If your preferred school has 4 dc with severe ASD and no statements, I'd run a mile. If they had a clue how to deal with complex needs, they'd have got them statemented. It's sometimes also a marker of a school-LA relationship that's a bit too cosy.

I would guess they'll probably see just one dc having earmarked (statement-driven) ASD-specific resources as 'unfair'- so expect the hard-won provision to be split 5 ways.

"If your preferred school has 4 dc with severe ASD and no statements, I'd run a mile."

Hmmm...alternatively, if they have 4 DC with severe ASD and are managing their needs well with no statements, then run straight into their arms, because they're going above and beyond what is standard...

True lougle, but (up here anyway) usually it's that the school's senior leadership team thinks they're managing the needs well without the statement... the parents and the overstretched whole-class TA don't necessarily agree.

Slightly jaded this week as have met a secondary SENCO who is at the lack of any paperwork for dc needing full time unit provision; a class TA supporting 2 very needy dc for 3d/week who is they haven't got a FT 1-1 each and a reception teacher who has no extra input 'because you haven't completed at least three cycles of plan-do-review' for the 2 (unstatemented) nonverbal dc who are terrified by the environment, often bolt suddenly and tend to mouth and choke on thick liquids, or anything smaller than a tennis ball (so the classroom has had to be cleared of toys, teaching equipment, playdoh, paint, glue, numicon...)

In all fairness, though, I think most areas are better than this one. And there are some excellent and genuinely inclusive mainstream schools.

In most schools there are some experienced staff for whom accommodating the pupil's SEN is so automatic that half the time they don't even notice they've done it. DS had the good fortune to have this type of teacher one year- it was amazing.

Yes, that sounds horrendous. Poor children and poor teachers.

Lougle, if my daughter was given what your daughter is receiving, I would be a lot happier, but that's not the case. I went to the school and on top of speech and language small weekly groups, there's a lady who has 30minute session with all the sen children- what she's going to so in these is not very clear( she said emotional and physical support :s)

The headteacher has basically implied that they are struggling as it is and any funding will not go to a TA just for my dd

bia ABA is only mentioned in part 4, nothing in part 3

Where does it say in the EHCP regarding parents choosing the right intervention for their children?

I think the head is doing you a favour by being upfront that any 1:1 on your statement will end up being shared because they can't support 3 other children without statements without sharing TAs. Its also harder to share if using different approach. If they have good relationship with their Sen team it will be harder for them to take alternative views on board and approaches may conflict.
My DS has ABA in mainstream and the schools contribution to his learning is minimal. It is the other children and ABA staff that makes it valuable experience for DS, but the teachers do not have time to plan for him or provide Indiv work etc. A good ABA team can make any school work. The school is the least important bit of his programme.
I would go for a school where your DS statement won't be piggybacked on and where they are open to ABA.
The academics can be taught at home if need be, it's easier to pick that up than fight a school which doesn't want to do ABA or can't ring fence your child's support
Once you've seen mainstream close up you realise how little time per child there is. School is a one size fits all, which means it works for those in the middle, those at either end don't get what they need. What the LA sells mainstream as being able to do and what they can actually do are miles apart in my experience. For us ABA has been the critical element and I woukd go for wherever allows you to maintain the fidelity of the ABA programme best.
Because school has limits on what it can offer DS he still only goes PT in year 3 and still does 1:1 ABA the rest of time, if he was there more he would actually learn less because that type of learning is just not a good fit. We access the bits that have a benefit and skip the bits that don't.

That's exactly how I feel Agnes,

I'll speak to other school tomorrow during our meeting.

In the meantime ABa is only mentioned in part 4, shall I ask them to amend it?

On Fiona's advice she said a tribunal will go against me based on the fact they've given us more funding than they would've, my daughter's profile.
She said that with our LA, they're flexible as long as school is happy with using funding towards aba

Deadline is 8th of October

2nd school have also said no, I want to cry...so so much

The SENCO sounded really on board and thought the whole aba was amazing, but in the end the Head said that he wants to move away from 1-2-1 teaching. He wants to use the small classroom the designated as a "unit" for any child that requires more input

oh no, sorry. We employ ABA directly and the LA pay the invoices - like a personal budget. None of the money comes from or through school. It makes it much easier and means school doesn't have to pay the first £6k. School is better off than if we used school staff.
Is there any way of negotiating a different method of getting the money?
How can a school move away from 1:1 if a child needs it?
Some kids need 2:1 support.
some parents choose mainstream because they want their child in a mainstream class, not in a unit.
So much for choice and control.
Is a private school an option even if just a few sessions a week alongside ABA? Would the LA let use the money for ABA if you paid the school fees?
Or what about a school in a neighbouring LA?
What does Fiona suggest if you can't find a school?
I cant see an alternative to appealing if no solution can be found, even if just to keep your options open give you more time to find something.

I don't know Agnes, I'll talk to Fiona tomorrow and again I'll speak with other schools

The SENCO is trying to set up a meeting between myself and the Head bless her. I'll go and cry in front of him and see if that works

I'm absolutely shattered emotionally, physically and mentally..the only thing keeping me going is the fact that I'm the only one who will fight for her

Agnes, can I request a home base ABA programme? That's what I have now but only till November

I've spoken to a private faith school who will meet with us, do you think I can enrol her there and use the money towards a tutor to go in the mornings??

I know it seems a little deceiving as it's not 100% home programme

2nd school have said yes!! It's a trial but they're looking to meet and speak with my consultant and are doing crb checks on my tutor!

Let's hope it's all smooth sailing