5yo DS excluded from school - what now?

[IsItMeOr]

Reposting from special needs school section, for more traffic.

DS is in reception, and is currently on school action plus with a 1-1 support intervention this half term for his behaviour issues (primarily hurting other children). We're gradually getting through the health assessment process, seeing CAMHS for an initial assessment, have an assessment appointment booked with SLT in a few weeks and on a 6-12 month waiting list for a multidisciplinary assessment for a possible social communication disorder.

DS has today been excluded for two days because he attacked another child in his class. This is described in the letter from the school as an assault.

We have a meeting with school on Monday. Can anybody advise on what we should expect, and what we should be asking?

Thank you in advance - feeling a bit overwhelmed right now.

No, we haven't applied yet icimoi.

We believe what we are being told by the school, the behaviour team and the parent partnership person that we need the Ed Pscyh assessment for that to actually get anywhere in our council. We agreed with the school that, even if it were practically possible to get that done in the last few days of reception, it would be totally dominated by the transition, so better to wait until they can see him in y1. He is top of the school's list for assessment in September, so application should go in late Sept/early Oct.

I know that you will think we are being naive, but the school has not done any of the things which I hear others talking about - eg endlessly delaying statementing so that DC languish without support - Head teacher has committed that DS will have full time 1-1 support until he gets the new Education Health and Care plan. Behaviour team is already engaged. SENCO is helping us to chase health assessments for DS.

We are seeing CAMHS for the 2nd time tomorrow, this time without DS, so we will press on who can diagnose for social communication disorder in our area. CAMHS do it for 8+, but it is less clear who specifically we need to see for 5yo. I gather that any local service can refer DCs to Great Ormond Street if they are unable to diagnose locally.

I will let you know how we get on, as I do understand why everybody is sceptical about what we are being told - your own hard earned experience tells you that we are definitely doing the wrong thing.

Thank you, and others, for all your insights. I don't know how I would have made it through this past week without your support .

Excellent advice given, definitely get your SA request in asap! You'll have plenty of time to get on with chasing the rest of the stuff while the LA cogs turn ever so slowly...

On a slightly separate note, as a mother of a child with similar behaviour problems, can I just say how much I HATE HATE HATE the last few weeks of term- particularly summer and Christmas. Routines fly out the window at school, there is SO much 'exciting' stuff going on at the moment what with sports days, fairs, trips, preparation for changing classes in September, a seemingly constant stream of brightly coloured lollies and treats dished out, and general excitement about forthcoming holidays- all exacerbated by overtiredness that usually accompanies the end of term. It is such an unsettled time, and an awful lot for many children to cope with whether they have special needs or not.

I can wholeheartedly agree with you on the last few weeks of term PassTheProsecco. That's one of the reasons I don't want the Ed Psych to come in now.

If you tried to design something to maximise the over-excitement for DS, you couldn't do much better. I think it was probably no coincidence that last week's incident happened immediately after they had their taster morning in year 1.

There is no way the Ed Psych would come in before the holidays even if you did put in your application now.

EPs do not routinely see a child before the LA has agreed to assess a child anyway as this is not cost effective and the school would have to fund it. If an EP sees your child before they assess, well, then they've assessed which is a backwards way of going about it.

Hi Starlight - yes, the school would be commissioning the Ed Psych out of their allocated hours (not sure quite what that means!). I didn't know that wasn't the norm.

School is very open that they are funding everything out of their budgets at the moment, and also very clear that isn't a problem, just not long-term sustainable.

I agree with others about getting the application for SA in now. I wish I'd done a parental application and not let school do it. I thought it would be stronger coming as a head teacher's request, but then the LA refused it on the basis that school hadn't spent enough on supporting DS and hadn't sought enough external advice before making the request (both of which we would strongly contest). DS hadn't been excluded at that point though. I think you would be in a strong position to apply for SA yourself. If you do it, make sure you include all reports, IEPs, exclusion letters, a timeline of stuff. If it is refused, you can resubmit with new evidence and/or appeal.

Our school have also waited for the ed psych to visit before re-submitting - they think it will add extra weight to the application. Although I understand if assessment is granted they will send an EP in to assess anyway... so it's very confusing. Feel like we are doing all the work for the LA at the moment!

We have also been asked to collect DS every lunchtime - this week he's off in the afternoons but next week they're talking about me just having him at home for lunchtimes (although I think I'd prefer to just keep him off now for the rest of term...). They are calling it some kind of 'reintegration' thing but I haven't had an official letter yet. Although school have been good up to now (mostly) I'm fast becoming very cynical about the whole situation - schools have different priorities and a lot of other budgets / children's welfare to consider, so I do think our children are being let down, even with school's best intentions. I now see myself as being the advocate for DS through the statementing process, not school. Sorry for rambling on - we should definitely start a club!

Ah, so we might be looking at two Ed Psych assessments, then? Actually, that does ring a vague bell from an early conversation we had with SENCO.

I think the nervousness on the part of the school is to avoid council refusing to assess at all. Because there is no diagnosis, I gather that sometimes councils can be reluctant to assess on behaviour only.

School has given us DS's record, and they are keeping records of the advice they have received from behaviour team and showing that they have implemented it.

SENCO is going to be full-time from next term (i.e. no teaching responsibilities, full-time SENCO), which I thought is hugely positive in terms of the school's general commitment to meeting SEN. Plus she appears very well suited to the role.

Seem to be spending a lot of time on the brink of tears at the moment. This is emotionally and physically exhausting.

I've emailed Contact a Family to see if they do anything for families pre-diagnosis.

CAMHS are giving us to 3 sessions over the summer with their family consultancy, which will be for me and DH to get advice on how to cope with family life until we get an assessment/potential diagnosis.

I'm trying not to Google, but have looked at the National Autistic Society website and finally found something that explains the triad of impairments (it's referred to everywhere, and everybody seems to assume you know what the heck they're talking about).

You know what? DS has had a dx of autism for 5 years and I have paid very little attention to the triad of impairments. It seems too simplistic somehow.

I prefer to see his difficulties as isolated difficulties to be addressed rather than a broad-brush category and then tackle them that way.

For example, he has supposed 'fine motor skill difficulties'. To me, I'd rather he was taught how to hold a pencil and use a knife and fork, instead of pulling buttons out of theraputty (supposedly to strengthen his fingers to make him better able to do the above things).

Funnily enough, he's still pulling buttons out of theraputty at school as they think he still needs his fingers strengthening before they can work on knife/fork/pencil stuff. Whilst he's doing that at school I've taught him knife/fork/pencil stuff which he is now fluent in.

So, I much prefer to address the specific skills than general ones that never seem to get to the specific.

Do google.

If you want a great empowering book, try motivation and reinforcement by Robert Schramm

Thanks Starlight, that approach makes a lot of sense, and I will see if I can get the book through our library.

The CAMHS psychologist was saying that we need to persist with getting DS better at recognising and coping with his feelings. Is that the sort of thing the teaching techniques in the book could help with?

The Cahms psychologist is right but I suspect that there are a good number of 'steps' being ignored that will eventually lead to that.

Did this wise CAHMS person make any suggestions as to the strategy for getting him there? Or did they simply announce from a pedestal that your child needs to learn these things without any strategies whatsoever?

The book will help yes.

We didn't talk about that much - it was in the context that I said I have noticed that DS is very resistant to even talking about feelings or things that make him feel uncomfortable (e.g. things that he has obviously found difficult to cope with), and I had been unclear whether or not to push it. She was saying, yes, persist.

Sounds like how to do that is a good question for our sessions with the family consultancy!

Always ask how. Professionals tend to be great at saying all the things wrong but not too good at saying what exactly needs to be done about it, in a step by step, day by day way.

We've been told that ds needs to learn social skills. Well whoopee do, I could have announced that without a qualification in medicine or education. What I want to know is what I can do about it, what they will do about it, and how we will work in partnership to ensure it is achieved.

I just wanted to say you are not alone. Ds has his first exclusion in reception only days after his fifth birthday. We had similar struggles and had to have him home for lunch, all the time he was in ms. You are right Ilove to get it recorded as exclusion rather than part time schooling or educated off site. Life got quite a lot easier once (eventually) the statement was in place and Ds was at special school. During his time in MS he developed some difficult behaviours (such as running off and hiding, and assuming everything that goes wrong is his fault, and went from a happy child to a very anxious one) which even now (he is now 14) casts shadows. My advice would be to get a statement with appropriate support as soon as possible. I may be out of date, but I wish I had known when ds was 4 that parents could request a statutary assessment ( I did eventually but only after the school had waited ages). Ds is another who digs his heals in once he feels 'under attack'!

Thanks magso, it does help to feel not quite so alone.

My instinct at the moment is that he is better suited to mainstream schooling. But I'll be honest that I know very little about what a special school might be like. At his best, DS certainly thrives at his current school. I'm hoping year 1 might suit him a lot better if they don't mess about with the timetable so much.

INSET day tomorrow, so I have emailed the school asking what they would do with a child with ASD to help with the transition from reception to year 1, in the hope that might lead to something which will help DS so that it doesn't hang over him all summer holidays. I just realised that we can't assume they will pick up on that unless we spell it out for them - to be fair, I'm only just beginning to realise some of the patterns.

I thought our school were the 'good guys' and I do think they are in so much as they try to do what they can in the context of him being one of several hundred children. However, in retrospect I am realising certain things could have been better. The daily LSA time has slipped to 2-3 times a week. The IEP wasn't a proper one, didn't involve his SLT and wasn't reviewed. An application to a special unit was only given to me to read in school and I wasn't allowed to take it away (though when I emailed asking for a copy I was given it). The school were asked by the LEA not to tell me the outcome of this application for a while even though I asked. All minor things but have made me realise the only person who truly advocates for my ds is me.

Keep smiling to the school but also tell them that you don't see any value in waiting until September for a statement and have applied now. Remember the statement in process takes months (longer if you have to appeal) so if you apply now it will still be well into next school year before it is finalised.

Isitme I did not mean to suggest SS, only what is appropriate for your child (for my learning disabled child SS was more suitable.
Transitions can be very difficult, so you are right to ask what they have planned! I found that communications between class teachers from one year to another was shockingly poor, and it felt like starting again. It may help to write a 'this is me' style passport - a sheet of paper outlining the most important things. What your child enjoys, what they find hard and how to help, and what would be helpful and calming (or what not to do) when child is distressed or over excited.
The end of term time is notoriously difficult for some children. Ds actually was asked to stay home for the last few days when in infants, as he did not cope at all well with the reduced structure. Now he is older he loves the fun things - although he still needs advance warnings and help with planning.

IsItMe, I'm really concerned that the school's planned time for requesting statutory assessment is slipping back to late September or October. It really makes no sense to wait for an ed psych assessment, you could be waiting for ages, and the whole point of statutory assessment is that that is the time when the EP assessment happens. Please get that request in now.

Thanks again everyone for your thoughts.

DH and I have talked about it, and we do think that waiting to apply for the assessment is the right thing to do for now. I know this will frustrate many of you, but we have to trust our instincts about the people we are working with.

We have heard some good news, in that it sounds like DS will get an urgent multidisciplinary assessment for potential social communication disorder in September. We're waiting for dates to be confirmed, but this sounds like it could give us all a bit more to go on. Know that diagnosis is not the same as a solution, but hopeful that it could give us all some more insight into what is likely to help DS.

DS's year 1 teachers have been spending a bit of time getting to know him this week, which is already beginning to have a positive effect on DS (he spontaneously mentioned this morning to me that he would be going into a new class in Sept - this is a big thing, as he mostly never talks about things which upset him).

Haven't managed to persuade DS to make a thank you note for his current teachers yet...he certainly loves his main teacher (as do we, she's fab), so I think it's more that it's all too upsetting for him to think about.

IsItMeOr,
I think you are right, making the decision that is best for you. I know people on here have loads of experience, and I listen to their advice, but the final decision must be yours.
You know you child and situation best, so only you can make the choice.

I hope all is going well at the moment, we are still chasing our statement, the school promise it every week, then it gets delayed for an other week. I'm getting frustrated, and I know I can apply without them, but they have spent months collecting evidence, and Im sure it will have a more powerful effect than a short letter from us, with no reports or evidence to back it up.
And I am hoping that they will have submitted so much evidence that the next step will be quicker, as there will be no need to do so much assessment, as it has all been done.

ilove Have you seen this evidence that they are collecting? Have you seen a pile mounting up?

Why can't they submit the pile in support of your parent application? They will be asked for any evidence they have so they'd be silly not to give it, especially if they are as supportive as you say.

To retain the relationship you can say that you have been advised that you should apply yourself as schools are so busy at the moment with the whole transition to both the SEN reforms and the changes to the national curriculum, so you just got on with it.

An application by yourself also means that you have to be copied into all communications about the process and need to be sent all of the reports and paperwork. If they school do it, however well-meaning, you are at the mercy of the priorities of the admin team as well as their opinion of what it is worth you seeing and what is not.

Thanks ilove.

Based on the advice from here, I requested a copy of DS's record from school, and that includes a copy of all the evidence that they are collecting. They may charge you for photocopying, but they have to give it to you.

Could you get a request (in writing) in to them today, so that they can get it to you before the end of term?

That way, you have all the info that they would have to send in with your own application if you want to make it now. Also, you will be able to make up your own mind over whether it's worth waiting any more for.

DS's is a very thorough, well-organised, group of documents, which shows their daily and incident reporting, the plans made and specialist advice received re DS, and that they are implementing it.

I called the senco again today, she wasn't in and never called me back. I will go in tomorrow and not leave till I have seen the form and evidence. She said she wants a meeting with me to go through it all before she sends it, so I need to push for a date for that,asap.