ABA for food

[Littlemisssunshine72]

Another ABA 'discussion'.
My DS is 7 with ASD and was diagnosed at 3. Since then I have done a lot of reading on different therapies,approaches,etc.
I also home educate my DS and have not used ABA directly (although I realise I have indirectly on all sorts of occasions) for academic purposes because I have managed to motivate him through his interests i.e. stuck pictures of 'disney planes' characters on word cards or made a toy story number line to name a couple. This way he has completed the task without requiring a reinforcer/reward.
However, food is the only area where I have not had any success.He has a very limited diet and eats the same foods everyday. In the past, I had hoped by being exposed to different foods he would build his tolerance levels up.Unfortunately, this has not happened. Therefore, we have started an ABA program for his food aversions. The consultant comes very highly recommended who has had a lot of success in the past with acquaintances whose children had similar food aversions.
We have only had a handful of sessions so far and I must admit it has been extremely stressful. I remember seeing the child on the TV program doing ABA for food issues and I always thought I wouldn't let my child get into that state but he is in that state every week and the only thing that keeps me going is thinking about the long term outcome and what the alternative could be.
My DS is a very anxious child and we have done so much work on reducing his anxieties and keeping him calm that I feel like I am going against everything we have worked towards by letting him get that worked up. He doesn't become aggressive, just very anxious, very desperate and pleads with me. I do understand that in order for results, there will have to be some element of stress as I realise to a certain degree this is learned behaviour that needs to be unlearnt.But I also believe that the underlying causes should be dealt with and my DS is extremely tactile defensive and has major sensory issues. He gagged when my partner just offered him some raisins.
He doesn't seem to cope well in the 'artificial' setting of having the food set out on the table and then being told to follow the set of instructions.Last week it took him 4 hours to put a crumb on his tongue.
But, I have recently started putting different food textures on trays and let him walk in it,put his hands in it, etc and this way he has licked and tried a couple of new foods. I don't doubt that this probably would not work for many foods but providing the opportunities in a 'fun' environment does seem to have a more positive effect.
Also, by the time my DS has put a crumb in his mouth, he has forgotten about any 'motivator'(last week a Tom and Jerry DVD) and the only motivator was for the consultant to leave.
I suppose I am 1) looking for reassurance to continue with the program as the results will make it worthwhile, 2) I have heard that ABA is not for everyone, so how do you know if it is not for your child without seeing it through?
I honestly feel when I see my DS in this much stress-if someone is being tortured, they will submit finally but then on the other hand, I liken it to moving to a foreign country where to begin with, you may not be able to tolerate the local food but after a couple of years, you wonder what all the fuss was about.
I know so many of you have had so much success with ABA but I guess I would just like to hear some food ABA related success stories.
Thank you if you have got to the end (lol), if nothing else, it has been therapeutic just writing it all down.

god, that is massive and ranty again. sorry

btw, dd1's ABA these days is a million miles away from what I described above. Now, she goes to school, and sits at a desk, and does her work (reading, 'riting and 'rithmatic), all for tokens to exchange for reinforcers (variously playing a boardgame, palying on the wii, eating some grapes, listening to music - and a hundred others).

I picked her up yesterday, and her OT group had consisted of a dance group (whole class), dancing to One Direction. the mind boggles. but dd1 is having some issues with her OT (finding it hard), and One Direction is a particular passion, and so a dance routine has been constructed to get her motvated enough to do her OT (the rest of the class joined in because they wanted to!). Pure ABA - use what is motivating to get dd1 involved enough to want to do the work. (another one that is a bit niche, though )

'But is ABA a methodology or a method? As a methodology surely it would be better used to improve SALT, OT, teaching and so on'

Yes. Absolutely. That would be ideal as a powerful tool in a therapists repertoire.

"But even that day, even run by the plain speaking and honest to a fault lougle was shrouded in mystery as to what was being offered and for what kind of price."

I feel I must step in and defend Moondog (and myself) here and say that the only reason there was any vagueness was:

1. The price was dependent on the number of attendees.
2. The content was dependent on the experience, needs and interests of the attendees.
3. Very few people committed to coming when the firm details were announced.
4. Most people who booked did so quite late, so much so that I thought the event wouldn't go ahead until a few days before it.
5. Several people booked after the deadline.

I truly wish you had been able to make it, zzzzz (and I know it was not possible at all for you) because the constant thread throughout the day was 'anyone who is prepared to put some effort in can do this and it is not rocket science.'

I think the danger in people saying what they do to address an issue is that to address an issue with ABA you have to understand the behavioural principles and you have to identify what the behaviour is telling you and respond accordingly.

If my dd is kicking and screaming because I'm trying to make her get her shoes on before school, it could be because she is hot and tired, or she's upset about something at school, or she is half way through colouring a picture and doesn't want to stop, or her shoes are a bit tight, or even that there is a lumpy but in the insole. If you said 'Oh my dd kicked off in the same way and I did x' it may work for me or it may not, depending in why your dd kicked off.

It isn't enough to give the end intervention without also giving the context, the analysis, the previous steps taken, etc.

whereas, with less 'scientific' approaches, the premise may rely less on the individual child and more on a general knowledge that 'most' children like bright colours, etc.

Polter, for not getting upset by my rant.

I never mind going into details. I do tend ot stop myself doing it these days, because of experience. I have often gone to great lengths explainign what we do (stress on the 'we'), only to be told repeatedly 'oh, but we do that, you don't need to spend money on a consultnt, that's not ABA, that's not exactly indepth analysis' etc.

yes, lots of people do what we do (in terms of going to the same lengths), no you don't necessarly nee dto spend lots of money, yes it is ABA, and no, it not rocket science

I also got bit wary that my posts were all about MEEEEEE! if I kept going into massive detail about the games we played with dd1, or the different thigns we had tried. so I cut down, and made it all a bit more concise (in detail terms, if not in post length )

I miss threads where posters rocked up and shared the detail of what they were doing - we used ot have huge long threads sharing eg different clocks or calendar methods, or different ways to use 'standard' toys to make them applicable to our children.

zzzzz always has some brilliant ideas on how to get dc motivated, or how to turn a situation around to put a positive spin on it - I am, quite frankly, crap at that type of thing, so needed an expert to point it out to me.

"btw, dd1's ABA these days is a million miles away from what I described above. Now, she goes to school, and sits at a desk, and does her work (reading, 'riting and 'rithmatic), all for tokens to exchange for reinforcers (variously playing a boardgame, palying on the wii, eating some grapes, listening to music - and a hundred others)."

The funny thing is that my DD'S school would be described as TEACCH, which is often held up as a babysitting of children with no expectations, and their approach is exactly the same! DD1 gets counters and when she gets 10 counters, she gets a dip in the treasure box. As a class they get jewels and if they fill the pot they get a class trip of their choosing. If she does good work, she gets a sticker for her work, a sticker for her and a trip to the head teacher's office to marvel at it, stopping in at reception on the way to show the receptionists.

If my dd is kicking and screaming because I'm trying to make her get her shoes on before school, it could be because she is hot and tired, or she's upset about something at school, or she is half way through colouring a picture and doesn't want to stop, or her shoes are a bit tight, or even that there is a lumpy but in the insole. If you said 'Oh my dd kicked off in the same way and I did x' it may work for me or it may not, depending in why your dd kicked off.

and yet again, lougle comes along and says in 2 sentences what I have said in massive long ranty posts. (that's another reason why I gave up with my long rambly posts - most others put it so much better than me!)

I'm not saying that what your school does isn't ABA. My observation is that when our teachers day they have issue with ABA, I chuckle because they are doing ABA, they just don't realise it, and when people are criticising SN TEACCH schools in general, they don't realise how much analysis goes on beneath the surface.

I think there is a lot of polarisation which needn't exist.

Ok have not read the whole thread (will go back and do so, I promise) but am interested in that last bit - the why of a child's food refusal. So it could be sensory, control, fear etc. With ds it is a combination of all of those and I think a hefty dose of pain from birth - severe reflux and crumbling teeth with no enamel means that he associated eating with pain. However he does seek out sweet, fatty foods to an obsessive degree - eg he tries to get the butter and eat big chunks of it. We try to relax around food, make a game of it, have smorgasbords of little pieces of food, picnics, fire engine emergencies involving food, pirate treasure hunts etc. Whatever we try he sticks to the same foods.

I know little about ABA, I know it always sparks controversy, but I would like to know if it something that could help here?

Ok, have just seen the last few message and see that my post has landed in the midst of upset. I will back away!

lougle - dd1's expereince of TEACCH was vastly different. BUt then, I don't think any school in the UK delivers TEACCH (which is part of the problem).

at dd1's (highly respected, much-lauded) ASD preschool (which I think is abysmal, and which has been described by more thanone professional I know as the worst example of an ASD preschool they ahve ever come across!), TEACCH was delivered thus:

individual workstatins, all arranged around the edge of the room (facing the wall, so dc all had backs to the room). a series of 'tasks' presented on trays (various tasks, form matching to sorting, to latch boards - anythign that could be stuck on a palstic tray!) - trays lined up on the left hand side of workstation. to be taken individually (by the child, no adult mediation), completed, then passed ot the right. the child had no interaction at all, was jsut expected (when it was 'worktime' - I must stress not all her time was psent at the workstations!) to sit down, and get on with it. apparently, they would be able to work out the tasks involved for each tray individually, and get on with it individually, with no adult involvement.

the reward for completing wa sot be able to get down formt he workstation. and yes, dd1 was held into the chair more than once - she did not find any part of it motivating or rewarding (dd1 is all about social involvement), so hated sitting facing away form everyone. her headteacher once described ot me, with amusement, how she would get a dc sitting, then casually lean on the back of their chair, so that they couldn't jsut get up. I didn't find it so funny

It does all come down to: good school and good staff (I would love to employ zzzzz as a tutor for my lot, or as a nanny or similar - the enthusiasm and utterly bonkersly fabulous ideas she comes up with are amazing) = everything working. crappy school and shocking staff = hideous experience.

the difference (from the little bit you describe) between your dd1's school and my dd1's school seems ot be the level of staff (dd1 needs 1:1 to keep her attention) and the level of personalisation of the rewards (dd1 wouldn't understand or get the 'specialness' of a class treasure box - so her rewards for the session are all chosen each morning, by the tutors who will be working with ehr (different tutors=different reinforcement, as a different relationship with each). and that's it. again, no mystery to ABA

Have you tried combining a food he likes with one that he tolerates but is less keen on? E.g. If he likes chocolate, then chocolate muffins, or choc chip ice cream. If he likes butter, then little mouthfuls of bread with copious amounts of butter.

As an adult I'm fully aware that I only eat curry and chilli because it comes with rice which I like and I only eat spaghetti bolognese because I like spaghetti. The meat/sauce element is OK, but it's the rice/spaghetti I like and I'd happily East it on its own but I know it's not socially acceptable in public.

Yes, dd1's class has 11 children with 4/5 staff. They are not taught as a large group for much of the day though. It may be that while a small group is doing swimming and another is painting, dd1 will have 1:1 with her teacher for maths, etc.

hazey have you thought about intolerances at all ( I realise the last thign you might want to think about with a restricted diet is potentilly restricitng it even more)

I ask because the bit that jumps out at me from your post was the eating chunks of butter. sometimes, an intolerance can lead to that food ebing obsessively and compulsively eaten. my dh used to quite happily eat half a pack of butter. and then, when i was obsessively reading up about ASD (I know this isn't the issue with your ds) and diet, and ticking off the symptoms in dd1 - we found he ticke da lot of the boxes for dairy intolerance too. he was then over 40, and had seemingly been eating dairy all his life without issue, yet it utrned out he was intolerant.

That's interesting. I used to be allergic to cow's milk which I grew out of. But I adore butter, cream, etc. However, once I've had my fill of a creamy food, I can't even look at it without physically shuddering.

lougle - dd1's class has 5 children, and 6 teachers (one for each of the children, plus a class leader). they will not always be working individually, but there will always be a tutor available per child, even if they have taken a step back to allow for small group work etc, which of course means high levels of observation and data collection can continue at all times.

if they go off to OT group, or SALT group (not always done by class, but by level of need of the children, so dd1 could go to a hand skills group with 2 fromher class and 3 from another class) they go with their session tutor, and then obviously there is the OT, or the SALT, or the group leader to lead the session, while the chidlren are all supported (to appropriate level for their need) by their individual tutors.

Yes, our specialist ASD classes are similarly arranged -6 children with a very high ratio of staff (exact numbers vary depending on if a child needs 2:1 for safety).

DD1 doesn't need 1:1 in her school but most likely would in MS.

m.youtube.com/watch?v=98LoiMZ59Jw

Group hug!!!