ABA for food

[Littlemisssunshine72]

Another ABA 'discussion'.
My DS is 7 with ASD and was diagnosed at 3. Since then I have done a lot of reading on different therapies,approaches,etc.
I also home educate my DS and have not used ABA directly (although I realise I have indirectly on all sorts of occasions) for academic purposes because I have managed to motivate him through his interests i.e. stuck pictures of 'disney planes' characters on word cards or made a toy story number line to name a couple. This way he has completed the task without requiring a reinforcer/reward.
However, food is the only area where I have not had any success.He has a very limited diet and eats the same foods everyday. In the past, I had hoped by being exposed to different foods he would build his tolerance levels up.Unfortunately, this has not happened. Therefore, we have started an ABA program for his food aversions. The consultant comes very highly recommended who has had a lot of success in the past with acquaintances whose children had similar food aversions.
We have only had a handful of sessions so far and I must admit it has been extremely stressful. I remember seeing the child on the TV program doing ABA for food issues and I always thought I wouldn't let my child get into that state but he is in that state every week and the only thing that keeps me going is thinking about the long term outcome and what the alternative could be.
My DS is a very anxious child and we have done so much work on reducing his anxieties and keeping him calm that I feel like I am going against everything we have worked towards by letting him get that worked up. He doesn't become aggressive, just very anxious, very desperate and pleads with me. I do understand that in order for results, there will have to be some element of stress as I realise to a certain degree this is learned behaviour that needs to be unlearnt.But I also believe that the underlying causes should be dealt with and my DS is extremely tactile defensive and has major sensory issues. He gagged when my partner just offered him some raisins.
He doesn't seem to cope well in the 'artificial' setting of having the food set out on the table and then being told to follow the set of instructions.Last week it took him 4 hours to put a crumb on his tongue.
But, I have recently started putting different food textures on trays and let him walk in it,put his hands in it, etc and this way he has licked and tried a couple of new foods. I don't doubt that this probably would not work for many foods but providing the opportunities in a 'fun' environment does seem to have a more positive effect.
Also, by the time my DS has put a crumb in his mouth, he has forgotten about any 'motivator'(last week a Tom and Jerry DVD) and the only motivator was for the consultant to leave.
I suppose I am 1) looking for reassurance to continue with the program as the results will make it worthwhile, 2) I have heard that ABA is not for everyone, so how do you know if it is not for your child without seeing it through?
I honestly feel when I see my DS in this much stress-if someone is being tortured, they will submit finally but then on the other hand, I liken it to moving to a foreign country where to begin with, you may not be able to tolerate the local food but after a couple of years, you wonder what all the fuss was about.
I know so many of you have had so much success with ABA but I guess I would just like to hear some food ABA related success stories.
Thank you if you have got to the end (lol), if nothing else, it has been therapeutic just writing it all down.

zzzzz - you're welcome. And sorry it was so ranty. I am still a bit ruffled from reading the old thread.

Star - I agree. dd1's food issues were flirted with (although in a severe manner), and lasted a matter of months rahter than the years it could have otherwise been. we struck fast, and managed to keep on top of her restricting foods, mostly by playing similar games to the gameshow stuff you described. it wears me out just rememebring it. but it is also good to do so. I forget just how far dd1 has come, sometimes, caught up as I am in the next steps, and the long game.

so to everyone on this thread for reminding me just how fab my dd1 is.

drinking was the phobia for dd1. that took a hll of a lot longer to get over.

she was 9 months without taking in any fluids at all voluntarily. and a further 4 years or so before she drank even approaching an adequate amount (which I re-calibrated to ebing anythign over 100ml after the first couple of years!)

but food was control. although I am not sure I would have pegged it as such without impartial outsider eyes observing, since she started restricting foods at the same time she gave up drinking. it owuld have been easy to bundle the two in together.

yes, totally different.

I have 2 on the spectrum, at seemingly opposite ends. however, they are actually exactly the same (in autism terms), except dd1 also has a severe language disorder, yet still manage to present so very differently.

It's never a secret zzzzz. It's just that what you actually DO is so specific and details that it makes you exhausted just thinking about typing it.

And because you know it isn't actually 'advice' that is going to help anyone as 'getting on all fours and barking like a dog' may well get my child to comply with having his nails clipped but it is totally irrelevant information for anyone else, and, dare I say it even more of a waste of time for nay-sayers.

So to then go into all of the actual details about how you found out that your child would have his nails clipped if you acted that way, the data you took, the 2 weeks of preparation to get them to even accept you into the room, let alone on all fours, well actually it is much easier to say 'Look, get an expert to show you with YOUR child, or go and visit someone doing a home-programme'.

It's not different. Those things do get said. Perhaps it is just that often there are lots of things at work, and not JUST the morphing that makes it difficult to know which bits would be best explained I suppose.

But things are, Agnes in particular explains a lot I think.

Another way of introducing aversive tasks or things could be to have the child do something they LOVE and are totally engrossed in, and quickly interrupt it for just a nano-second (maybe put your hand over it) and give them a crumb to eat which makes the crumb a mild annoyance rather than a fully thought-through fear, -
which they quickly take as you remove your hand as to suddenly make a bit deal either consciously or unconsciously will mean their 'thing' will be at risk of being interrupted for longer even if they get away with not eating the crumb.

Cool! Now take data on how yellow the banana is!!!!!

Thank you from me too alarm for your description. And yes Star, you did explain the game show. I just wondered how sisterchristina did it so successfully.
What I have definitely taken away from this is that DS's program is not individualised at all and as mentioned, in every other area I individualise it with regards to his interests so of course, for something he hates as much as food(well, some food) it seems daft to not do the same. And I can now also see how even without external rewards, the way we work could be seen as a form of ABA as the reinforcement is intrinsic and the target for example would be to get him to read to me from any book rather than me write out targeted sentences on card with pictures of his favourite characters.
The therapist also made notes(his data) on scrap bits of paper and always leaves them with us. Is that usual? As I thought he would need it to analyse for how to go forward the following week but we just do the same thing each week and get as far as we can depending in DS's moods(in that 1 week he wouldn't even sit at the table so it took the entire session just to get him at the table)whereas last week he was doing well with the touching, kidding etc so we moved onto putting in mouth but then this is where it then took another 3 hours until he 'complied'!
I sent an email last night to the therapist voicing all my concerns (hope he doesn't think I am trying to tell him how to do his job) asking if we could tweak the sessions and I have included pointers given by all of you. I have decided if he is happy to accommodate some changes we will see how it goes, otherwise will get rid. This has definitely made me realise how non-individualised his program is. I will probably end up doing it myself (as with everything else!)

Polt once again I agree with you part of the reason I avoid these threads mostly is the financial issue

I haven't suggested food issues weren't addressed when the children were younger. I am saying that negative behaviours are more easily addressed when they first begin to manifest, before they become ingrained.

With my ds, his food behaviours started around the age of 3 so I could nip them in the bud and no, though it was real fear he displayed I don't doubt that his difficulties with food weren't as severe as a child who had been refusing food for a long time. I didn't mean earlier in childhood, I meant earlier in the behaviour pattern. This is hard sometimes because often the behaviour is only recognised when it has become a huge problem and so the opportunities to adress it easily have passed.

Food acceptance is however, seen as one of the most difficult to address and ingrained behaviours. This and toilet training. It it because as a toddler, you can 'physically' get a child to do anything you want (get in buggy, have nappy changed, stop playing with something etc) but you cannot physically make a child eat or poo.

For children with confusion/anxiety (common in children with ASD) about the world, refusing food gives them some sense of control over their world. It is the one area where they rule.

Whilst the fear of food ingrains, so does the fear of losing that control. Behaviourists don't see control by the child as so something awful about their personality or something that has to be 'broken', they try and also look at its function and ensure the child is 'control-compensated'. They still need to feel in control of their actions regarding the food they are being asked to accept.

I know £100 isn't nothing, but there was the opportunity to purchase a days worth of training in ABA techniques last weekend.

There is also the £69 Simple Steps package which is parent training and gives you access to online consultants.

There are also an increasing number of books on ABA written in more accessible language.

The information is available if people want to truly research it.

Polter you are so right

£100 may be unaffordable to most parents, but it isn't to most schools. And sometimes it is about priorities anyway. Most people on this board I am fairly convinced have spent at least £100 on something for their children with a disability.

There will always be those that don't have any funds at all, ever. However they equally have not financial access to private SALT or books or OT equipment. It isn't just ABA they can't access.

Where OT and SALT is offered for free on the NHS, so should ABA be.

I guess it is like trying to teach 'Chemistry' zzzzz. Where do you start? Where do you start especially when you have a bunch of people wanting Chemistry to find the solution to a variety of things?

Well, you start either at the very basic beginning which will be no use to anyone with a particular problem, or you address particular and individual problems as they present. Or you look at your client group, find common issues and tailor your education around that, which is what I believe Moondog did with her surveys of what people wanted. The terms she used if not explained were easily googlable.

ok

ABA is not one thing (I am definitely repeating myself here).

It is a series of methods, used to tackle just about anything. So, you pick what you want to target, and then use ABA to go about shaping behaviours.

That's it. It really is that simple. If none of the language of ABA is an issue, then I don't understand what is. (I find the language of ABA offputting, tbh. But then I never really ran a 'formal' programme, as formal doesn't suit me and my family).

I have never coem on a thread and just advised getting a consultant. I have, in the past, done as I did earlier on this thread - explained how we have tackled an issue which a poster is asking about, and then probably dvised getting a consultant/other involved, as that is how I prefer to work. Probably insecurity on my part, but I still don't believe I can work itout by myself. Personal choice.

Yes, I know not everyone can afford it. That does not mean we shoudln't talk about it, or ask if it is an option. Not everyone can afford to involve people like Margo Sharp, or Daphne Keen, or use various Ed Psychs I have recommeneded, or the Sensory OT people I have recmmended, or even to afford the multivits or supplements I have talked about. That doesn't (and won't) stop me talkign about them. I know I am bloody lucky ot be able to afford these thigns. It isn't always an 'easy' afford (it is much better these days, but when I started home ABA it was a considerable effort to find the money), and I (and several others) have gone without many different htigns in order to be able to do it. I do realise that it is n't possible for some, on any scale.

I don't appreciate my dd'sissues being minimalised because she happened to 'get over' them relatively quickly. (see how things can be turned around?) Neither Star nor I said that it would have been bette rif you had pulle dyour finger out and worked with your ds when he was younger. I specifically stated that I don't think my dd's issues with food were in the same league. I also said that we were lucky we didn't treat them the same as her drinking phobia (did you notice the bit where i` said it took us several years to work our way out of that one?) as it would have made it a bigger problem than it shoudl have been.

I'm not sure what you mean by tackling in a more intensive manner. when I was tackling dd1's drinking initially, it could have been viewed as intensive, sure, because it took us hours to get even the barest sip of liquids into her. she was also 2. she had nothing else to do! we were at home all day, so yes, our lives got restructured around making sure she stayed hydrated. because it was vitally important. but we didn't work intensively in that all we focussed on was drinking/liquids - we 'just' made sure that drinking was a high consideration in all the activities we were doing - so stories about it, playing with cups and puring water, matching pictures of different drinks, getting her to help make a smoothie (which she was never going to drink) by putting in some blueberries - showing her that one of her favourite foods could also be a drink, and god knows what else - it was 7 years ago!

Now you can come along and say 'oh but that isn't relevant, my ds doesn't have an issue with drinking' and yes, you have a point. which is the same point that has been made on just about any ABA thread over the years - that's why it doens't help to go into details. there are no details, until the issue and the situation, and the circumstances are considered.

I am not sure what you want from people when asking about ABA. If we give details, they are not relevant, or not the same level of issue, or too intensive, or too expensive. If we don't give details, then we are keeping ABA shrouded in mystery. There is no mystery. ABA is using whatever you can get your hands on/need to use to shape behaviours. And that's it.

So, I have variously:

used a post office set up to teach dd1 everything from shapes to colours to matching, and to also extend her sentence length (from single words to 2 words, to short phrases describing what she saw). because dd1 loved posting things. so we had post boxes all over the house, and she 'worked' to be able to post something. the 'work' was exactly what I do now with ds (nearly 2) - naming colours and objects for him, as you do with any toddler - but the motivation for dd1 (god knows why) was being able to post somehting - object, card, whatever. so we could work on her imitating skills, and her reward was to post a card in thepost box afterwards. probably wouldn't work for many other children. but worked for dd1 because we turned her love of a repetitive activity into a learning tool.

used songs to get dd1 to do somehting. she sang before she could talk (long before) and we used different songs to cue her in to what was happening - Frere Jacques was our cue for going out. Old MacDonald meant we were going to start packing upt to leave the park. Over the rainbow meant I ws going to start making lunch/tea/whatever. Again, can't see it working for many other children. But it worked for dd1, because she couldn't understand the language involved (I did still repeat the phrases as well, to get her used to hearing htem, and to start associating those sounds with what she knew the songs meant) but could understand the meanings (to her) of those songs.

had to use various phonic sounds as reinforcers for dd1 - she was desperate to learn to talk, and the highest motivating reinforcers for her for a looooong while were me producing over emphasised phonics. we also did a lot of work with mirrors due to this.

none of these things were done in isolation. and none of them were expensive (bar initial outlay for a laminator ). and noen of them, probably, relevant to anyone other than dd1. these kind of details are not helpful - it might spark off a 'ooh, could try that' moment for someone, but they do not 'explain' ABA anymore than the dry, bald statement of 'using rewarda nd reinforcement to shape behaviours' does.