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Risk of exclusion

33 replies

CurrerBell · 11/06/2014 14:00

I have such a fear of DS being excluded from school... He's in Year 2 and has Aspergers. We are trying to get a statement for him but the assessment was recently refused by the LEA (we are re-submitting, but he's about to start Juniors so it's complicated as to which school will apply).

In the paperwork for the statutory assessment, the SENCO said they were trying hard not to exclude DS but that he was 'at risk of exclusion' if his behaviour escalates.

This school has been pretty good at supporting DS, but these words are really playing on my mind. I know the Junior school has permanently excluded a boy with SEN. Even if DS were excluded for half a day I would find it devastating and I can't help feeling my trust and relationship with the school would be broken. Am I being unreasonable? When the SENCO brought it up I had to try so hard not to burst into tears - and I never cry in meetings! I want to prepare myself for if it happens and how to handle it... What are DS's rights if he is excluded?

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Icimoi · 11/06/2014 14:44

I wouldn't worry too much about this. It won't reflect on DS, and in an odd sort of way it would help your case, because if he's being excluded it's further evidence that he needs more support in school.

Basically the school is only supposed to use exclusion as a last resort and in response to persistent bad behaviour or one-off serious incidents. They are particularly supposed to take into account SEN issues and to put in place support plans when a child is in danger of exclusion. If he is, you must get an official letter giving you notice of the fact that you can ask the governors to review the exclusion, and if it's an exclusion for more than, I think, 5 days they have to review it anyway. If he is excluded for more than 5 days the school must also put in place alternative arrangements for full time education from the 6th day, and just sending work home wouldn't be enough. If it's a permanent exclusion, I think it's the LA that has to arrange the full time education. If the governors decide to uphold the exclusion, you have the further right to appeal to an independent review panel. You may also in some circumstances have a right to make a disability discrimination appeal to the Special Educational Needs and Disability Tribunal.

If this does arise, I'd suggest you contact someone like IPSEA or SOS SEN about it.

OneInEight · 11/06/2014 14:51

It is heartbreaking and so stressful when you are waiting for the axe to drop but actually being permanently excluded was the best thing that could have happened to ds1 as it meant he finally got given the support he needed. I am angry that it took this means to get him the support but he is now back to being his happy, quirky self once more. The LA's exclusion officer might be worth contacting as she will tell the school their legal responsibilities - the illegal exclusions stopped after her involvement for instance - and also what would happen if your son did end up being permanently excluded. Oh and I have ended up crying in lots of meetings so I expect they are quite used to it.

CurrerBell · 11/06/2014 16:39

Thank you both - it's reassuring and really useful to read your replies. I've been on the edge of tears all day just because the SENCO mentioned it in context of the paperwork! There has never been mention of excluding DS before at Infants. But it's Juniors I'm worried about, as life will be so much harder for him there, and there's no guarantee that his current support will continue.

The SENCO for Infants obviously can't speak for the new school, but she said they might give DS a few weeks to settle in before working out what support he needs. I think that could be disastrous for DS... If a serious incident occurs during the transition it just feels like everything would have gone wrong for him. But I realise I'm battling with my own insecurities and anxieties here... DS might not be that bothered by a short term exclusion, and might see it as a holiday from school... or it might further entrench his idea that everyone thinks he is 'naughty'. Sad

I can't see how an exclusion would help improve his behaviour in any way. But perhaps it might help our case for getting a statement... so I could try and see it that way if it happens...

Can school ring up and ask me to take him home, without any warning? Or is that an illegal exclusion?

I think I need to meet with Juniors again and ask a few more pointed questions about what support he will have for the transition...

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Nigel1 · 11/06/2014 17:25

The substantive issue here is being missed.
The school say that he is at risk of exclusion if his behaviour escalates. For most ASD children the behaviour is a manifestation of the fight or flight response which is normally caused by his sensory profile being overwhelmed by his environment.
Thus the fact that the school is saying that they may exclude is actually helpful in that it demonstrates that a mainstream setting, no matter how caring, cannot that meet his needs.

I would write up to the authority and point out what the school have said and ask them to reconsider urgently their advice to the school such as to reduce the risk of exclusion. Identify where the fault lies. With the local authority.

Icimoi · 11/06/2014 18:00

Not being missed, Nigel1, I pointed out that it could actually be helpful.

OP, the school can only phone and ask you to take DS home if it is a formal exclusion. But certainly they can exclude without warning and in fact that is often what happens after a serious incident.

If they do ask you to take him home, you need to ask them if he is being formally excluded. If they do what some schools do and say no, they just feel he isn't coping or he's had a meltdown or something, tell them you're not collecting him unless it's a formal exclusion. If DS isn't coping in school, it's up to them to help him to cope, getting extra support and advice from the LA if necessary. But you need it to be a formal exclusion because (a) it's documented that the school isn't meeting his needs and (b) the school won't take to phoning you every time they feel like it if they have to document it as an exclusion and potentially go through the review process. I'm not saying your ds' school will do this, but some do so you may as well be prepared.

AgnesDiPesto · 11/06/2014 20:10

Formal exclusion means they should give you a letter saying why he has been excluded. If they ask you to pick him up insist on being given the letter before you take him home. Otherwise they don't record this as exclusion.

What sort of behaviours? Ask them to do abc chart for every behaviour A = antecedent (what happened just before) B= behaviour (what did he do) C= consequence (what did they do). Then see if any patterns. Sometimes it's c which causes b (if c is you get sent outside some kids will do b to get c to happen).

Also get them to try giving him regular breaks during lessons DS earns tokens and gets regular breaks / rewards eg to go read a book in corner or go on computer for 5 mins, then come back and work again.

They need to catch and reward the good behaviour and as much as possible (provided no one is harmed) ignore the bad. So they need to reward before things go wrong. That might be every few mins to start.

Worth reminding school break time is not a break for our kids, it's work, and often the hardest bit of the day, so they need to build in downtime during lessons or allow him to have quiet time during breaks. That might stop things escalating.

Is there a behaviour outreach team? They can sometimes be better than autism outreach at putting in place behaviour plan. A behaviour plan should be positive he knows the rules, earns points for keeping to the rules, gets reward. Does he have any access to TA who could run a token / reward system like this (often called token economy if you want to look it up). The tokens should be targeted at what want to work on so if it's staying calm he should get tokens and praise when he's calm and they should say why he's getting the tokens so it's really clear eg you stayed really calm when... Here's a token etc.

DS has ABA in school and his behaviour in school is really good because we have put measures in place and he has FT 1:1; but I've seen several other children without ABA whose behaviour is awful because the staff don't know about autism, don't know what to do etc. If he is at risk exclusion it's because the staff are not managing it properly / are inadequately trained.

If there are particular situations when behaviour happens eg assembly, when it's noisy etc then they may have to withdraw him and build up his tolerance slowly eg he just goes into assembly for last minute, then 2 mins etc (and gets tokens and praise every few seconds for keeping it together).

We've just moved to a school where a child left (his parents moved him to SS before he was excluded). I only found this out after DS started. I am sure seeing the ABA staff work with DS the staff are thinking if the other boy had had the same level of support and specialist expertise it would not have got to that point. School staff are not trained in how to deal with behaviour (they often get it wrong with NT kids too by not being consistent enough), so you need to push school to call in support eg outreach.

It is really really common for SS to start filling up from yr 3 with kids whose behaviour has not been managed in mainstream properly. Here there are very bright kids in LD schools for this reason because mainstream staff didn't know what to do and there was nowhere else for them to go. But ABA approaches can really turn things around. You might even want to think about private ABA advice if that's an option.

CurrerBell · 11/06/2014 21:07

Thank you - I want to be prepared if I do get a call... that is very helpful to know about formal exclusions. I will investigate ABA as well.

DS's current school seem very caring and flexible, but he has not coped so well this year and he seems to be finding group situations much harder. They have increased his 1:1 support as he frequently runs out of the classroom and needs bringing back, or hurts others / needs to take time out to calm down, so there is a safety issue... However he's academically bright so we're having a hard time convincing the LA of the level of his needs.

He loves to learn and has a real gift for engineering / electronics and stuff like that. But even with TA support he spends most lessons sitting separately with a book / making a model - he will half listen to the teacher, but frequently interrupt and disrupt the lesson. I can't see him coping with the structured lessons in Juniors at all... I have to ensure there is support in place for when he starts, otherwise I can see things really breaking down.

The ASD Outreach and OT have just been in again to write new reports, so I'm hopeful we will get there eventually with the statement... just not in time for Juniors. Sad The panel said they needed more evidence that DS wasn't coping...

He hasn't seen an Ed Psych for 18 months though - is that something we should arrange?

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manishkmehta · 11/06/2014 21:15

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

xenzani · 12/06/2014 06:37

My dd2 has been excluded many times now and is only in year three. I have sadly lost count of how many it is this year (including the being sent home early ones as she was too on edge after a meltdown) and are currently on a two and a half day one now. This current one is all because she couldn't understand/accept not getting four credits for her maths work that only two people got instead of the two most of the group got which then escalated into three members of staff getting kicked.

It is horrible to happen, her first one in year one hit me pretty hard, now I see it as a positive in that hopefully the LEA won't refuse to do a SA when I apply this week. So much evidence that the school can't cope with her.

We have literally one more thing to try before permanent exclusion will happen. She currently has no diagnosis but is most definitely on the spectrum and possibly ODD or PDA. A very intelligent little girl she is and has to have control all the time although not so much at home anymore.

Anyway, look after yourself and see the exclusion as a positive thing for more help.

manishkmehta · 12/06/2014 09:16

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

CurrerBell · 12/06/2014 10:32

DS hasn't been excluded yet... and he may not be if Juniors step up to the mark. But I was surprised by my own strength of feeling even discussing the possibility. It just seems such an awful and counter-intuitive thing to do to a child with ASD. It punishes the whole family!

DS has recently got his own 1:1 TA four afternoons a week, and he has support at other times too, e.g. in literacy where he struggles to focus. She is mainly there to keep him safe/calm and go with him if he runs off. It has been a real fight to get the budget for this - but he obviously needs his own TA, as school couldn't cope with him continually running out of the classroom. I have been asking them to do some social/emotional literacy work with him, because he is getting worse at handling his emotions, but there has been nothing formal so far.

xenzani Sorry to hear about your daughter's exclusion - that must be very hard, not having a diagnosis too. I hope it goes well with the SA. We have long suspected my DS has strong traits of PDA. He is very verbal and intelligent but has to be in control and is completely fixated on what he wants. He is very demand avoidant and struggles to follow instructions. However he is lovely at home (most of the time)! It is mainly at school that his sensory issues and anger comes out.

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tethersend · 12/06/2014 10:42

As a teacher, I am almost certain that the SENCo has used that exact phrase in order to help your case for statutory assessment. At risk of exclusion is the phrase used in education to (attempt to) galvanise support services into action.

Does your son have a diagnosis?

Exclusion guidance is very clear: I can't CnP, but read point 24 in the guidance here. This is likely to be what the school is doing- which is very positive, as it shows they agree that he needs more support.

Children should not be excluded due to their disability, and legally a school would have to show that they had tried everything possible to meet the child's needs before an exclusion was allowed to stand.

CurrerBell · 12/06/2014 12:58

Thanks tethersend - that is reassuring, and I think you're right about DS's current SENCO. Despite the budgetary problems I've always felt we were working together to support DS.

She was shocked that the SA wasn't granted, especially after what she wrote in the paperwork.

Yes, DS has had a diagnosis of ASD (Asperger's) since Year 1.

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CurrerBell · 18/06/2014 17:04

Well DS has just been excluded for hurting his new TA. So what I feared has happened.

He has a one day exclusion and I have a formal letter (I haven't been able to bring myself to read it yet). The school have informed the LEA.

Apparently he has been close to being excluded several times, and would have been by now if it weren't for his ASD diagnosis. They said exclusion is a last resort.

I guess it shows he and they are not coping...

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Ineedmorepatience · 18/06/2014 18:10

Do you know what happened before the incident currer?

If his TA is new something may have gone wrong! Has she/he been given sufficient training before working with your Ds?

I hope this triggers some action from the LA.

Have you read the Ruled Out campaign that was put together by Ambitious about autism? It is very interesting.

CurrerBell · 18/06/2014 18:56

Ineedmorepatience, his TA is very young and I don't think she has any training in ASD (I'm not sure). The school said they just needed someone to go after him and keep him safe when he wanders round the school. It was on one of his wanderings that this incident occurred. He closed the doors to stop her following him into a classroom and held them closed, and when she eventually got in he pushed her against the wall and had to be removed by another TA. This is not the boy I know. He doesn't hurt people maliciously but he is so fixated on what he wants that he will push past or hold people away. The TA was shaken up by the incident, understandably. They had started to form a bond and he likes her.

Yes, the LA will have to listen to us now! We are going to resubmit the SA application with new evidence. Three professionals have submitted new and very strongly worded reports, and I am redrafting my parental views to counter all their arguments in the refusal letter, with evidence.

It is crazy that these decisions are being made by people who have never even met DS and are just ignoring what the school are saying - the school are astounded that it was refused.

DS is very upset about the incident and very subdued.

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Ineedmorepatience · 18/06/2014 19:03

I am sorry you are having to go through this.

Really the school is to blame for this, theyhave employed someone without training to babysit your son and they exclude him when it all goes tits up!!!

Very poor practice Sad

OneInEight · 18/06/2014 19:51

Am so sorry the school have decided to go for this route. I hope that your LA see sense and accept the SA application this time round and give your son the support he needs. Just keep reminding yourself that the failure is the LA and schools and not your sons.

We found a gentle approach was best with the ds's when this happened to them so they had time to destress before returning to school. Also watch out that in the reintegration interview there is not too much telling off as this raised ds2's stress levels so much on one occasion that he rapidly reoffended.

fightingagain · 18/06/2014 20:08

Sorry to hear this.My ds sounds very like yours and was permanently excluded after a very similar incident. In our case school were not doing what they should and were actually causing his anxiety to escalate then complaining about the consequences Sad. They were ultimately found to have committed multiple acts of discrimination but of course that was no help to ds. His story is actually used as a case study in the Ruled Out campaign.

I hope the LA get support in place soon before things escalate. It may be useful to request copies of your ds's SEN files from both school and the LA as I found a heck of a lot of incriminating useful information from these.

CurrerBell · 18/06/2014 21:37

Thank you - I am going to request his school record.

Back in autumn they said he needed a high level, trained TA. But they couldn't find the right person and then it was declined for budgetary reasons (twice!).

The incident was shocking but this is not the boy we know at home. I just want to scoop him up and protect him.

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CurrerBell · 02/07/2014 17:38

Just to resurrect this thread... DS has been excluded again. No letter this time - I was just asked to pick him up after he threw a chair in frustration which unfortunately hurt his TA.

I asked the head if it would be classed as a formal exclusion and she said it would be counted as one.

There are daily incidents like this at the moment as DS is so anxious. He is frequently throwing things, kicking walls etc. He is also saying every day that he doesn't want to go to school. I don't know what to do - I don't want to send him to school when he is so anxious that he behaves like this - he's not able to learn in any case.

What if he gets permanently excluded? I am trying to get school to re-submit his SA application this week and am in meetings with Juniors regarding his transition there... It's all too much right now.

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OneInEight · 02/07/2014 18:39

Make sure you do get the letter. They should give you the number on it for the exclusions team (should be on your last one anyway) and ask what will happen if he is permanently excluded. In our LA it is not great - 6 weeks in a PRU - and then returned to a new mainstream with no additional support on a managed move placement. I hope it is better in your area. To try and prevent the permanent exclusion you do need to ensure that statement application is resubmitted so they start giving your son the support he needs. I might also be tempted to get the HT to exclude till the end of term in the circumstances as it is not doing your son any good to attend whilst the support is not in place and the end of term is a nightmare for children such as ours. I withdrew ds2 from school under similar circumstances this time last year although I did know at this point his statement was being finalised & school had admitted they would be unable to implement it.

CurrerBell · 02/07/2014 19:44

Thanks OneInEight. Well I've just googled PRU and there's no way I'm sending him there and then back to mainstream. What sort of disruption is that for a child that can't cope with change?! I think it is that way in our area unfortunately. Bath & North East Somerset.

For one thing I have a younger daughter at the same school as DS's current one and I can't uproot her or be in two places at the same time. I would be forced to home educate.

It's just so frustrating. I have pushed school to get them to re-submit the statement this week and it was all agreed. Now however the head wants to wait until the ed psych comes in - which will probably be next week or the week after... Then we will have to wait for his report. I can see her point, as we don't want SA to be refused again due to not having the right paperwork in place. But we have three new reports ready to submit and the situation is urgent. If we wait any longer, Juniors will end up dealing with it and they will have wait several more months for new evidence.

Or should I just appeal the original refusal myself with the new evidence we have?

I am meeting with Juniors tomorrow re transition support, but they say they have no budget. I doubt they'll be able to put the right support in place. I don't even think DS will survive the 'moving up' day tomorrow, as his anxiety about it is so high!

What is involved in pulling a child out of school? If I pull DS out now or ask for the head to exclude him till the end of term, how will I attend all the meetings and stuff I need to go to?!

Sorry for all the ramblings... have a million things on my mind at once.

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AgnesDiPesto · 02/07/2014 21:22

Yes appeal if you are in time, this is the quickest way. The LA are likely to back down. Don't rely on school. You can email IPSEA and ask them to check your appeal docs. Don't worry too much about getting appeal perfect you can add docs later on the important thing is to get it registered.

I would stick with it and don't pull him out of school. If he is permanently excluded the LA will have to provide home tuition or PRU etc after 5 days. You can refuse the PRU if its not suitable. Pulling him out of school at this point will solve the problem for LA and school and they will forget about you.

If you don't have to work and can be around you could agree a PT timetable until the end of term to help with his anxiety but I wouldn't pull him out entirely as out of sight is out of mind. And make sure he goes for the full day when the EP is in!

I know you just want to protect him and keep him home, but the system is based on only getting more support when you have evidence of failure. We had to keep DS in a nursery where he was going backwards but it was worth it as we won ABA off the back of it.

cornflower4 · 02/07/2014 22:29

'you can refuse the PRU if it's not suitable'.

You can try to refuse this but it may not get you anywhere. Following exclusion I did this but the LA then supplied no education at all. They said it was my 'choice' that ds had no education as I had refused the PRU place that was offered Angry