BAD tantrums. Can't take it anymore.

[adrianna22]

My DS, who's four, has a severe language delay, plus has an autism diagnosis, which is still being debated about.

He has these bad tantrums, simply because he does not get what he wants.

Like today, we walked past the park and he pointed to play on some car driving toy. I told him "..not today as we are in a hurry..". He then tried to take me to that direction, but I still held firm and before I knew it..that annoying high pitched crying voice started. He cried, carefully positioned himself on the floor and then began to kick his legs in the air, wailing. People looking at me, wondering if I'm abusing him in any way. The way he cries is terrible, like the earth has ended, he has this bad high-pitched crying voice, which you can hear from the other side of the road.

When we got home, he started to cry again as I was ignoring him and he literally pulled my eyes towards his and cry till I give him a big or something.

He is literally like this every time he does not get what he wants. I just don't get it. I thought it must be some routine issue, because of the autism. But then I realised that it can't be as he does not get upset by routine changes and surely, is it a routine problem if a child does not get what he/she wants?

He would cry in the supermarket if I do not buy him treats, he would cry in the toy store if I don't buy that special toy, he would cry if I do not take him nandos as he loves the kids meal. It's like every time I treat him to the things he loves the most, he expects to have it every time we go there. Plus the way he reacts is not subtle, it's really really bad.

I'm just at my wits end. I feel like I cannot take him out anywhere, simply because if he spots that favourite shop that sell those yummy ice-creams he would cry. I should be able to enjoy outings with my DS, but I feel like I can't. What can I do? Is my DS spoilt? is it my fault? Why is he behaving like this?

@PolterGoose- But is this a routine issue of not getting what he wants?

And there's another adage that, if you do something once, it becomes set in stone as a routine! (DS2 is a big one for this)

I don't understand is this a routine issue? or the anxiety disappointment of not getting what he wants.. @ourvye I get that! but why does it have to e something that he really likes? i.e. we take the same route to nursery, the one day we were late, so I took another route, he did not seem to mind and other times as well. I just don't understand why he is like this?

He might like the sights offered by the new route to nursery, so that one's not an issue for him, right now (doesn't mean to say that it never will be, unfortunately). Sometimes the need for novelty can be as pressing as the need for sameness and predictability and the two can often be in conflict.

Shopping is a very difficult experience in terms of routine and the assault on the senses. It's visually over stimulating and often busy. Developing fixed associations and expectations makes it feel safer. the problem is, your DS probably has little concept of money and can't read your mind, so his expectations can be a cause of frustration.

With my DS I could get away with not giving him things if knew in advance when he would get things and when he wouldn’t. That’s where routine came in, it was a way of knowing when he could have something and when he couldn’t. It made it predictable for him. My DS couldn’t get the hang of the idea that “sometimes” he would get something and “sometimes” he wouldn’t, he needed to know exactly when and why, otherwise he would have huge tantrums. He wouldn't understand about being late, being late didn’t mean anything to him, he just knew he expected a ride and he wasn’t getting one.

The problem was anxiety and disappointment and the solution was routine and “always doing it the same way” if you see what I mean. Mixed in with the kind of preparation that Polter does, so he could start to be a bit more flexible as he got older.

@Klenziet, but why does it have to be something that he likes? i,e. ice-cream, anything to do with junk food, toys.

I change his routine millions of times, he does not seem to care in the world. i.e. Instead of taking him to school, which I do every tuesday, I took him to the dentist.

But when its crisps, toys, junk food and I don't give it to him, he would cry. He would even randomly point to a shop that we never been before as he wants to buy a fizzy drink.

Plus, he would never do this to another adult, he was with his uncle and me and pointed to the ice-cream in the shop, when I said "No" he was about to do a hissy fit, but when he looked at my uncle, because he could sense that he watching him, he stopped immediately.

I now understand of it being a routine, but not exactly being in a routine, but expecting to get what he wants all the time. Like when I was a child, my dad would always take us to Mcdonalds every thursday and when he didn't I would throw a hissy fit.

But yes, expecting to get what you want all the time can turn into a routine. I just don't have to give in, or tell him before hand that WE ARE NOT buying crisps and give him visual support.

Hi yes your right Poltergoose, I have recently been changing my route so that my DS does not see his favourite shops. There is a burger king just by the corner of his nursery, which is on our route home. So I have taken another route home now, so he is not tempted.

With the shopping, I do tend/ most of the time to give in. I was thinking in terms of preparation, like a shopping list..to keep DS distracted, he likes shopping with the basket. Or showing him the things that we are ONLY going to buy. This will be hard at first, so I'm going to expect tears. Unless I go to a news store and avoid the sweets isle.

I know I need to break up the bad habits. It's just so hard as he just cries if I do not give him what he wants. But I know I have to.

I think it just is hard adrianna.

I wonder if people are disapproving of the tantrums as much as you think - whenever I see hysterical children I thank goodness ithey are no longer mine. I have had too many experiences in supermarkets with 3 boys who could not keep their hands off each other to be disapproving.

Can you do most of your supermarket shopping when he is at nursery? And then introduce him to the new shopping (where you don't buy him things) in short bursts? You will gain confidence if you can do a shop successfully and he will start to get used to not getting things.

Going to a new store and avoiding the sweet isles are both really good ideas. IMO.

I agree it's very hard and there aren't any straightforward answers. Kids vary a lot about what they notice and we need to be consistent about the things that matter to them. So for some kids it would matter what route they go, for other kids it would only be about food treats and rides. My DS was always very focussed on food! And I do relate to the "do it once, do it forever" thing. Good idea about trying a new supermarket to break the connection. (I like the cheap midweek supermarket delivery myself!) I used to avoid tantrums as much as possible but we still got some major ones, I had to pretend not to mind which wasn't easy.

Internet shopping can be a wonderful thing. The cupboards just stay magically full, so when you do go shopping, it's less often and your list is short and it's less of a problem if you can't complete it.

I don't drive, so we tend to do our shopping as a family. There have been times when one of the boys (normally big'un) has completely lost it, so has been carried to the car while I finish off and pay.

It can often be helpful, when you're tackling problems like this, to make the situation slightly artificial. So you're not doing your main shopping, you've done it elsewhere, at another time. You have a list and on that list is a picture of one thing for your DS. It doesn't have to be expensive. It can just be his favourite biscuits or a packet of doughnuts for when you all get home, or a cheap toy or sticker book. I don't know if you have a partner or not, but you go with the, if you do. If you don't, you take another adult with whom you have a good enough relationship that you can say "OK, we're going to the car/bus stop while Fred/a pays for the shopping." Of course, you'll square up, later.

You will get very used to problem solving. It's easiest when you can involve your DS - so when you're making your shopping list, if he can communicate it to you, you might want to ask him to choose one thing, that you suggest, that you know he'll fancy, that you can get from the shop you're visiting. That way, you're giving him a sense of control over the experience, even though you are the one who has managed it.

Not going to pretend it's easy. Had 10 years down this path with DS1, but completely flummoxed with certain issues with DS2, who is a lot more cognitively disabled and severely language impaired, to the point where we are now involving a LD nurse to see if she can help us to address certain behavioural issues.

Thanks everyone for the advice. I guess with DS I am a bit lucky as he is not really fussed with changes into routine. IT's just that "I want that, that, or I'll throw a massive tantrum attitude".

I will try a new store, maybe presenting DS with a shopping list as he likes to get involved, give him a pictures to prepare him and for me to stop giving in.

I haven't tried internet shopping, so that is an option. But changing routes which I have been doing, is what I'll keep on doing.

My DS is the same - something he likes becomes routine even though it has only happened once. At Easter he was allowed some chocolate first thing as a treat. The next day he wanted the same and as it was a bank holiday we let him. The next day he wanted chocolate again and I said no - cue screaming and growling on the floor. But we stood firm - it took about five days to break the habit - we explained that chocolate was a treat and if he was a good boy then he could have some when mummy and daddy were having dinner. Every time he kicked off, one of us would remind him about chocolate being a treat. When we decided he was no longer to drink fizzy drinks - it was a nightmare - refused to drink for 36 hours - but now he only drinks water.

I think the issue is that DS has very black and white thinking and finds it difficult to see any other choice than the one he wants - it's part of rigid thinking.

I've read quite a few of your posts OP and it seems you are really struggling with the ASD diagnosis. My DS also has a significant speech delay (non-verbal at 4) but this is because of his autism. I know an ASD is hard to accept because it is a lifelong condition

Yes, yes JJXM - I see my ds3 in what you posted. He gets into these rigid routines in the blink of an eyelid. I need to be really on my guard to spot routines and break them before it becomes a major issue. I find it exhausting.

Nice to know it's not just me and my ds3

Yes stillstanding - it is exhausting as it only takes one time for him to think it is a routine. I just tell myself that he cannot help it - it's like NT people can see both a left and a right turning in a road but DS only has the capacity to see the left turn - for him the right turn does not exist and when he needs to go right then he has a meltdown. I think as his parent it is for me to coax him and encourage him that there are other ways. Unfortunately, we have to do this in the public eye where most people are standing there judging my parenting!

JJXM thanks for replying. I have kind of come to terms with DS ASD; it's just I'm trying to work out what's his normal behaviour from his autism behaviour. I do tend to distract DS when he becomes like that, but sometimes I'm too annoyed to even distract him.

Hi poltergoose, your right. Regardless of his autism diagnosis. I do need to do what works best for him as every child, with or without autism is different.

Thanks :)

*Works for him I mean.