So, what cuts would you make to SEN provision?

[StarlightMcKenzie]

In light of the Wirral report and the suggestion that the parents they interviewed were 'pioneers', innovative, open to change, outcome-focussed etc. and of these parents a total of 4% listened to the SEN team for advice etc... I was wondering if it would be possible and indeed desirable, to make whole SEN departments 'Big Community' run.

By that I mean, take said innovative open-minded outcome-focussed parents and get them to run the departments in their entirety. Ask them to get better outcomes for the same money. Ask them to get better outcomes for less money in fact.

I am utterly utterly convinced that it could and WOULD be done.

To add the perspective of the 'other side' briefly, I would remind you that a great many parents (most in fact) are not like the average SNMN person. There are many who expect the 'professionals' to practically raise their child, who do little to implement even the most basic recommendations, who sit back and let others take up the slack, who are never happy or grateful or engaged despite people running themselves ragged for their children.

Remember also that your average 'professional' has (like me) over 100 people on their caseload, often scattered over a huge geographical area.

Add to that vast amounts of useless paperwork, managers who hide behind computers and in meetings, and it doesn't augur well.

Sorry! Was trying to prioritise the most pithy and sarcastic comments.

Parents should run the SEN Departments as they have.... the appropriate skillset unlike SEN Teams who parents don't listen to clearly qualifies

Also, remember that you have many people asking for all sorts of things. With public money, you have to put in some sort of sifting system or before you know it, all and sundry will be demanding dolphin therapy and crystal healing.

My father once compared this to a horse race, a common tactic in any industry, this being to automatically knock back all requests. 90% go away. 10% carry on. They get knocked back. 90% of that 10% go away. 10% carry on. They get knocked back....and so on.

The ones that make it to the end of the race are the ones the powers that be know can no longer be ignored.

Yes. We're the sharp elbowed resourceful parents who Professionals have been warned take everything for their children at the expense of those who really need it.........

In truth, the more resources you have, the more it costs you personally and financially to get merely half-way to adequate.

Moondog, I think that's half true. But the SEN industry treating people like idiots has a polarising effect.

Half become fuming, hyper-competent mnsn types
The others get 'learned helplessness" and behave as they are expected to.

The 'professionals' mistake intent with action.
They are so used to spewing out drivel about the 'support' and 'intervention' they offer that merely uttering the words magically transmutes into offering real help.

As Batman said 'We are what we do, what not we believe'

For the public 'caring' sector, the mantra would be 'We believe ourselves to be good, therefore we ARE doing good'

Good question zzzzz. I think my ds may have got better provision if I had started out in denial and failing to hold it together. Then I think we may have tapped into the individual and personal agendas of those that like a do-gooder story for Christmas dinner.

But really any chance of that had gone when the Autism professional said to me the following two things:

1. Well we can't tell you WHAT intervention we will give him because we pick the best bits from what is available and tailor it to his individual needs.

2. When you say that the National Autism Plan recommends 20 hours a week of intervention, I can tell you that he is already getting the equivalent of that once you take account of all the time of the professionals who are involved. Even though you don't see them they are giving a lot of time to your son.

'The customer is always right' about something.

So, they may wrongly ask for dolphin therapy, but are right that current efforts aren't helping their dc much.

Focussing on interventions with "Person Orientated Outcomes that Matter" is a good start. Using what research shows to improve satisfaction is another. But this should be mandatory for anyone and everyone dealing with parents and/or SEN.

See, that's the really frustrating thing. Outcomes could be much better, and costs much lower, if (some) professionals could or would accept that parents are experts too. For a dc to do well, they need both sets of expertise to interact.

It ain't rocket science.

TBH, Dolphin Therapy and Crystal Healing might have no evidence-base but I'm pretty sure I would have reported 'perceived' benefits over and above the therapy DS WAS given.

If you're going to waste money, at least do so making people happy........

There are many that haven't even tried the basic stuff before they ask for the dolphin therapy.
SEN professionals patently aren't doing a great job for various reasons, but neither must we assume that all parents are saints, because they aren't.
As I stated earlier, there is an enormous amount that can be achieved by maintaining order, routine and consistency.

Disparity in evidence based practice certainly isn't confined to SEN, Look at the nonsense 'professionals' trot out about breastfeeding.
I have just been on a family w/end associated with one of my children's chronic medical conditions and it was apparent that the advice given to the 18 families attended varied wildly.

That's why I no longer loather, but rather admire businesses like McDonalds. What they offer may not be gourmet food but you sure as hell know exactly what you are going to get from the start, wherever you arte and whoever you are.

But this gets translated into a load of flannel about working together and best practice, and all actual listening is the submerged under untruths about provision compounded by head-tilty, patronising, pseudo-sympathetic guff about needing to accept we're in Holland.

Agree with all you say, all of you.
Just trying to throw in some of what the other side experiences.

And now the government are spending £30m on Independent Supporters to 'help' parents and 'build their resilience'.

Resilience to what? Expecting anything?

I'm not saying that amount could change the system but £30million could pay for an awful lot of training and a structure that ensures that training is cascaded down.

What happens, as each layer is revealed to be not fit for purpose, is that another layer is added to police previous layer, thus creating even more bureaucracy and general self importance.

We need to dismantle, not build more but then of course we would quickly realise much is merely a job creation scheme

I find the idea of a Care Quality Commission madness for example. People paid to inspect people to (ostensibly) do the job they are paid to do in the first place.
WTF?

Lots of parents (ie 50%) are going to be below average. But most of their dc will be ok, because 'just-about-good-enough' will be alright for the majority of dc.

Lots of old ladies will pretend they're taking their mountains of pills, but it's only a problem for those few who actually needed all those interventions in the first place.

Order, routine and consistency makes a massive difference, as does taking all the pills if needed. But telling people to do stuff is an intervention in itself, and to make it work, it has to be done skilfully, in the way that gets the best results. Snd if the hospital has killed Grandpa, Grandma ain't gonna listen.

Unfortunately the current powers that be (I don't mean where moondog works, which sounds far better than most) tend to neglect dc itself and then assume educational failures are down to parental failures with the basics. In such a judgy-pants way that people then give up and DIY, give up all hope and fester, or just ignore all advice.

The poor bgers that are competent professionals then justifiably find parents difficult to deal with.

I thought that.

Then I met a real-life CQC inspector via an acquaintance and was pleasantly surprised. She wears her genuine genius in analysing services (outcome-focus and process-review) lightly, but her reports are clear, coherent, kick-backside ace. Suggestions for improvement are written so just a few strokes of the pen will make them SMART.

If that's the future, I like it

As utter uselessness of current situation becomes ever more parent, some places are tinkering with the idea of contracts of a sort. These involve promises on both sides to do specific things. Once these have been fulfilled, you can ratchet it up incrementally.

The trouble is that many parents and professionals don't carry out the stuff on the first rungs of the ladder properly so neither side gets beyond the most basic stuff.

I know that when I work with parents who go away and faithfully implement what I recommend, then come back saying 'We did what you suggested and ....... happened. What now?' I can then gradually work with them at a more and more sophisticated level and we can achieve great things together which is a fantastic feeling.

I tell them that I know what works but that, as I don't live with them, they are the ones who will have to implement it.

Gratifying to hear Meir.
However, telling people what needs to be done is easy. The hard bit is showing them exactly how to do it.

My deepest contempt reserved for Investors in People.
What utter tripe.
I remember one of the admin staff in my place of work photocopying manuals for us all. The pile was taller than her. We were dully accredited. I have no idea what they did or who they talked to.

'dully' Heheh, Freudian slip surely.

Yes. I've been difficult with my 3rd.

I automatically assume that every under 5s service is going to be shit, that I might not get things right but will cause less harm and have refused to 'engage' with anyone really from day 6 when the HV told me that I MUST take contraception when Breastfeeding.

Unfortunately baby DS has a SAL delay. The kind that will probably make the books look good. If I could be arsed to wait 9 months for a screening appointment to be told to attend toddler groups, talk and sing to him, I could do them a nice favour and give them a positive outcome for being so patronising. If his delay is NOT of the good books kind, I'll get the same advice with a negative outcome, be blamed and put on another waiting list for an actual SALT who will recommend as above.

I'm not doing it again. Even though attending said toddler groups has 'flagged him up'.