The nurse at CAHMS has told me that minecraft is not suitable for under 12s

[OddFodd]

She's made me feel like an awful parent :(

Originally I only let DS (7) play it on creative single player mode but eventually I relented because he went on and on about it and let him play on multiplayer. She thinks it's at the root of his suicidal ideation but Ihe doesn't like violent games so doesn't play them as far as I know and also only plays on a no grief server

I have to go back on my own in a few weeks. What's the deal here? If I don't ban it is she going to report me to social services/refuse to provide DS with additional support because I'm not co-operating?

I think a lot of people (the nurse I saw yesterday included) don't realise how broad dyspraxia combined with other sensory processing difficulties can be - that a lack of concentration/inability to finish things/inconsistent performance are indicators of dyspraxia as well as ADHD. The only people who seem to really understand it from my experience are OTs. The ed psych we saw last year said that DS needed to try harder at concentrating

Redoubtable - the paed assessed him for ASD last year but said he doesn't have it (I don't think he does either actually).

I know a teacher who suggested Minecraft during a parents evening for their 9 year old who hadn't made many friends yet.

Sorry haven't read all of this but perhaps she is confusing Minecraft with World of Warcraft?

When the CaMHS OT visited our house ds1 brought her to see his bedroom really excitedly. He wanted to show her his quiet corner but she homed in on the consoles (we have an old tv and some consles in the bedroom, simply as it's the only place with space for them, most of the consoles are downstairs but with 3 kids and 2 adults who all game having two locations makes sense, the kids are not allowed free reign on the bedroom consoles, they ask for permission and are monitored closely). The OT immediately started checking the age limits on all the games. Out of about 20 games one was PEGI 12... and old copy of a James Bond game for the gamecube that their uncle sent up for them.

It's pretty harmless and tbh it's not even one of their favourite games. But she made a massive deal out of it which really pissed me off. A whole stack of cutesy kids games and she got arsey about a single slightly inappropriate game.

Some HCPs just seem determined to find any way at all to shift the focus to our parenting decisions rather than help us deal with the behaviour we need support with

Odd
re this "that a lack of concentration/inability to finish things/inconsistent performance are indicators of dyspraxia as well as ADHD"

there is a difference in the 2 .... dyspraxia is a disorder of the ability to ideate, plan and execute movement. IME it doesnt just affect movement...but also organisational skills. 'Breathe, think, do' is a useful step for these kids as they often rush into things to try to get past it, and ignore the quality.
Whereas if they slow down, think about the end point and then do, success is not guaranteed but is often better than they expect. So I encourage parents to praise the effort, not the result.

ADHD is more about the brain's inability to maintain an effective arousal level. So these children are constantly looking for sensory information to maintain their attention, but the seeking intereferes with their ability to listen and attend...hence the loop.
Slowing an ADHD child down has the opposite effect...they cant alert.
To help them, we must give lots of movement and alerting before expecting them to sit and listen.

Odd that was a long diversion, but by way of saying that the diagnoses are similar but different in treatment approach.

Youre convinced he's not dyspraxic?

That really struck a chord with me, Ds1 was originally assessed for dyspraxia but got an adhd and asd dx instead, now the asd I agree with, he's very aspie but I argued the adhd but was told he couldn't be dyspraxic as he passed the Gates test.

However slowing him down and making him think works infinitely better than overstimulating him

What is the Gates test?

I regularly see children with Dyspraxia and there are pretty strict criteria for diagnosing it. Am not familiar with this one.

Autcraft is the minecraft server set up specifically for those with ASD.

As for stampylongnose once they've been dragged into his youtube abyss then you've lost them forever.

It seemed to involve asking him to walk in a straight line putting one foot directly in front of the other and a few other simple movements. He can do things if he concentrates though, he just has terrible coordination on the fly.

does he kinda jog along instead of walking? Sounds strange but DS has never been able to walk in a straight line SLOWLY. Took me years to suss this is a symptom of dodgy balance.

He runs/falls everywhere, doesn't walk ever really.

Hiking boots as opposed to shoes or trainers reduced the number of tripping incidents for DS. I don't mind as in general they are designed to support the foot properly, and once you find a specific brand/style that suits the shape of your child's foot they take the stress outta shoe shopping significantly.

wilson and itiswhat thanks for the links to those forums (fora?)

I wont ever introduce DS to them just yet! Need a weekend of minecraft-free-ness...
It is a marvellous resource- I heard of it on here aaaagess ago and DS loved from the start- and has collected some cool points by being one of the first in his class to get into it.

One of the usual standardised tests for gross motor function has a subtest that involves asking the child to walk on a line. It is amazing how much information I can collect from just this one.

It is usual for children with handwriting difficulties to not be able to do it competently....because it involves core strength, and co-ordinating movement with eyes.

Running/skipping, funny gaits, mixing up burst of running with slow walking is typical...can be poor co-contraction at the hip joint (part of core strength), poor bilateral integration, poor trunk rotation, poor reciprocal movement of arms and legs etc etc

Yes, I've heard parents say that heavy boots/shoes help. Why? possibly the child gets greater sensory feedback where their foot is in space, while swinging through, and better feedback on foot strike.

HTH

summer testing a child by asking them to walk one foot in front of the other isn't enough IMO. It needs to be part of a full assessment.

This morning I had a child do the walk on a line test. Looked OK-ish in his shoes. In stockinged feet it was obvious he was clawing his toes. Thats a problem right there.

Ds1 is hypermobile too so a lot of his core strength and low muscle tone issues have just been put down to that. His excellent psyche at camhs told me that clumsiness and poor coordination are recognised asd traits by some definitions so he felt it wasn't dyspraxia but a mix of asd, spd and hypermobility... With adhd on top. Part of me still wonders but tbh he's getting excellent help from school and all his issues are being managed so it seemed pointless to argue the technicality as long as he was getting a dx of something iyswim?

DS2'S asd outreach teacher lets him play it on her ipad as a reward/incentive.

Redoubtable - sorry, I structured that post very badly. What I meant is that I know that DS has dyspraxia. He has a DX of that which I'm very happy with as it fits him to a T. But that was a private DX. NHS/LA initially referred him for ASD which has been discounted and now they are assessing him for ADHD. I don't think he has ADHD (or even ADD). I think he has dyspraxia. However, CAHMS here don't recognise dyspraxia (because they deal with mental health and that isn't on the list) so I think they want to put him in the ADHD box.

Thank you so much for explaining the difference - that's really helpful. DS was able to sit down and concentrate beautifully after being tightly rolled and being a 'hotdog' at his OT session last week when he was pinging around before we did it. Swinging in a net swing really helps too.

Hi OddFodd, I used to work in CAMHS, so wanted to confirm that this nurse is either being inappropriate, is not being clear in her messages, or is being unprofessional, but she needs to back up her assertions. I was worried you had a session individually with her, and you were going to address things there directly with her. I really wanted to suggest not doing this, or at the very least asking for another trusted professional to attend, or for the session to be recorded. They definitely CAN record sessions if you are consenting, as therapists often need to record sessions to qualify so the service should be set up for this, at least with audio recordings. The nurse may not be comfortable with this - but this says more about her than you. I would simply explain this as you wanting to have a clear record of the session to check you've not misunderstood her. You could also record it on your phone. They will probably check this, but it should be okay, as you are the patient so are in charge of consent, and patients often hold records.

Putting it in writing is much much better than anything verbal. The letter has to go in notes, and so it formally disagrees with anything the nurse may have recorded I would state some of the things you said here - e.g. playing on minecraft causing suicidal thoughts; advised not to allow child into your bed at night; ball throwing suggestion. The letter would be best framed as:

• I am writing to ask for some clarification on my experiences with my son on XXX(date) with XXX(nurse). My memory of the appointment was that:
• minecraft
• ball throwing
• bed suggestion
• any other 'advice'

Obviously it is always hard for patients to remember every detail of a single appointment, particularly when managing their children in the room, and so I need to check whether I have left the session with the correct information. Could you please confirm, in writing, that this is the advice I was given in the session.

Please could I be given some explanation of how these are related to the difficulties my son is experiencing, and what I am being advised to do about this, with some evidence as to whether this will be effective.
Finally, I did not find it helpful to hear about the nurse's own two children, and my son also found it confusing to hear about their film preferences, so I would prefer it if future work avoided this.
Please contact me to let me know about arrangements for recording the session, and I would welcome written information responding to my points above.
Kind regards,
OddFodd

I really wouldn't challenge her directly with no witnesses, people who feel threatened will defend themselves, and make you feel worse, as they do have the power in this situation, as they hold the gateway to power. Don't bother educating her about minecraft, or the stupidity of persistently making a child fail, just make everything a summary of what she said ('sorry - can I just check - are you saying that he shouldn't play minecraft') - then write that down, and ask why? If she is forced to back down she has to cope with backtracking and being made to be wrong/stupid, and most people deal with this by retaliation and defensiveness. I can't imagine many people would say 'oh really - gosh I was completely wrong in all my advice' - it essentially would mean she'd been shit at her job (which she has...), even if you got the wrong end of the stick, she let you go away with that impression and didn't check.

If you can't get the recording of the session, then make a lot of notes, asking her to confirm her exact wording, and if possible you can ask her to sign and confirm your notes.

She will not like you, but you will be safe, and she will probably fast track you to a more qualified person as you will be termed 'complex'.

They shouldn't report you to SS, but it is always possible, but that is all the more reason why you should ask them to put ALL their advice immediately in writing (there and then, not just a letter send in weeks). It is also completely possible as I work as a therapist and its very common that we give people a single sheet of A4 with 'what we discussed', 'what we agreed to do', 'when happens next', which we both sign.

Sorry for the length of this! There have been terrible pressures on CAMHS, and cuts, and it has a trickle down effect, and there is always a pressure to employ the cheapest people, so not very qualified people working in a context of change and cuts will not lead to great care. But I see so many people being let down when they could push for help, I hope you can get through to a decent person.

Wow thanks for your very long and informative post undecided :)

I talked to a SW and a SENCo who are friends and they advised me to write. I called the FT's customer service team, got her team leader's contact details and sent the letter to him. I structured it in a table with what had come up/what her response had been/why it was inappropriate and/or unhelpful and said I didn't want to see that nurse again.

The team leader called me up and we had a long and really helpful chat and swapped email addresses. DS has now got an appointment to see a clinical psych in 3 weeks' time and I've sent the ADHD/ODD forms directly to the team leader for assessment by the ADHD team (I've calculated his scores and I think they may say he meets the criteria but we'll cross that bridge as and when).

So your advice is absolutely spot on. I feel so much more positive and in control of things too. I had become quite a passive participant in the process so it's good to know that actually being assertive gets you somewhere rather than your files being shoved down the back of a sofa or worse.

OP I would still tread extremely carefully. We had a nightmare experience with CAHMS and don't appear to be alone.

Please don't assume you can trust the team leader as they can be lovely to your face but be documenting child protection concerns without telling you. We took nearly 9 months and the help of a solicitor and the Information Commissioners Office for CAMHS to release all their notes on us. It makes horrific reading as absolutely everything is twisted and explains to us why they fought so hard not to release it.

This was just one example of their twisting of facts but there were hundreds more.

I was trying to stop breastfeeding my dd who was 18 months old during one of our appointments. I didnt want to stop but had to go onto a medication that does not permit it. She was grabbing at my breasts and undoing my buttons for 2 days then started taking cows milk and has been as happy since as she had been for the first 18 months. I had chatted this all through with the CAMHS team during the appointment explaining I was sad to have had my last breast feed ever as she was my last child. My dd sat facing outwards away from my breast to stop her undoing my top. They were so sympathetic and helpful during the appointment and empathising that I couldnt have any more children due to the medication and discussing giving up breast feeding.

However much later I learnt that they had written in the notes that mum had baby on her lap facing away from her and made no effort to comfort her and basically said it was emotional abuse and there was no bond. There was no mention in the notes of giving up breastfeeding even though it had been discussed at length or of of what they had seen at every other appointment. This was about a child who had co slept, solely breast fed for 18 months and been in a sling for the first 6 months and probably displayed the most secure attachment of any child. It was not her we were at CAMHS about of course as she is the happiest child. Had we not both attended every appointment and recorded word for word we could have thought we were going insane in our memory of each meeting.

No one has ever explained to us what happened but looking at their notes it appears that they decided it was a child protection issue before meeting us and then twisted everything to fit whilst telling us they were assessing our DS for ASD. We never had an apology. I hope lessons were learnt for future cases but I really dont think so.

Good grief, lies, if sitting a child facing away from you were valid grounds for raising a child protection concern, then 90% of the families where I live would be affected. What a muppet :(

Well of course that wasn't the grounds but it is scary what spurious evidence can be used to support a concern.