'You autistic bastard'

[jussi]

So this is what the ex husband of a new friend said to a pet cat while I was at the friend's house.
To put in context, have recently made friends with a family who also home school. My children have made good friends with their children and the parents are lovely, have really clicked with them.
Yesterday, while visiting, the ex husband dropped off his daughter and was there for literally 2 minutes but within these 2 minutes jostled with the cat and said the above phrase to it. He doesn't know me nor that my son has autism. Tbh, I felt sick and was trying hard to comprehend what I'd just heard. I zoned out a bit and felt frozen to the spot. By the time I had 'come round' he was on his way out.
Nothing was mentioned but when I got home I felt pretty upset. Now, if someone had told me this had happened to them, I would have said, I hope you told him what for. I was too shocked to say anything in the time he was there.
I've tried to let it go but I can't and feel I need to say something to the mum (she was in the room but didnt say anything). Don't know if she felt embarrassed or not. I know it was not her that said it and I don't want her to feel in any way to blame or feel bad and have therefore thought maybe to leave it and put it down to ignorance but then on the other hand, I really don't think it is okay and she blatantly heard it and I feel I should mention something to her in the hope she may mention it to her ex husband. Even if just to make him think for a second. Pretty obvious why he is an ex!!!

The same goes for gay. It's a term that many people who are homosexual gladly use to describe themselves and is an accepted opposite to the term "straight". "Gay" is no more offensive than "straight" when used as a shorthand to describe sexuality. The problem is when the word is use in a demeaning manner eg "you gay" or "that's so gay."

Are you equally up in arms that a word that we've used for decades to describe the edge of a ruler has been appropriated to describe people who do not fancy others of the same sex?

You are confusing words with intent.

And I thought you were going to name change and leave us to it, anyhow?

I don't think you understand, if someone says to me, 'hazey, mini hazey is such a special little boy' I wouldn't be insulted. But if someone looks over at him and says 'look at the way that boy is walking, he must be special' then that is using 'special' as an insult.

I don't think anyone says that you can't say that someone is gay, as in 'stephen fry is gay', but using gay as a way of describing something that is crap is insulting - as in 'god that is so gay'.

I have heard autistic used in the same way - not as a descriptor, but as an insult.

The word "special" is not taboo. I do describe my boys as haing special needs. I do not say that they are special needs, however as, even ignoring people first language, to do so would be grammatically ridiculous.

If I was to comment on your misunderstanding of this fact with the words "Van must be a bit special" then that would be highly inappropriate and offensive.

English is not my first language so my take on this might be slightly different. Many words, expressions and insults in English don't really have the same effect on me as their equivalents in my mother tongue would. They don't connect with my emotional side, if someone cuts me up on the road I wouldn't be swearing in English, let's put it that way...

I wasn't familiar with the expression 'a bit special' before coming to Britain. After some time of observing how people were using it I came to the decision that it wasn't a term I was comfortable with. The context, intent and people's reactions to it gave me the clues to make that decision. I wasn't part of any SN brigade, I just observed than in 99% of the cases people used it to cause offence and not as a descriptive matter of fact term.

I genuinely thought, and I'm talking as a foreigner that had to get used to what language was acceptable or not, "a bit special" wasn't.

haing = having. Keyboard needs a shake!

And that's the point Ouryve. The sister did not set out to cause offence. The sister used it in the context of a gay person talking to a gay person as in the aunt of someone with SNs taling about someone with SNs - not maliciously or contemptuously or hatefully or to demean. Using special in a non-threatening context (as short-hand for "special needs") is not being derogatory - and I appear to be in the wrong for thinking this.

By pulling up the sister all that's happened is the idea that 'special is bad' has been reinforced.

And I thought you were going to name change and leave us to it, anyhow?

That's just a bit rude. Am I not allowed to explain my views?

I particularly dislike the idea of 'word ownership' by communities. Everyone should be able to use words - but in their correct context. So if something is bad, call it bad or shoddy or useless. It's just lazy to attribute words like 'gay', special or whatever in an inappropriate setting when other would do the job more successfully.

I'll freely admit to being a bit 'chippy'.

Who else has been a tad chippy?

I'll start us off...

1. the suffragettes and feminists that have followed who opposed sexism
2. Nelson Mandela (and all other freedom fighters) who opposed racial and class based oppression
3. non-whites who opposed racial oppression
4. non-heterosexual
5. all worker-right movements

... can you think of more 'over-sensitive' people/groups?

I'm not joining in with any debate on this but op - I think it's ok to be offended by any term followed by barsted.

There's no way the ex would know your dc condition and if he did he may have be genuinely remorseful - or not!

I guess your friend was embarrassed. I think it's ok to tell her it upset up but in a accusing way. Maybe he's been horrible to her in past and she is unwilling to confront him.

I think your right to be upset but there are some dumb people out there. If you let all of them get to you, you'll be constantly upset.

Sorry not in a accusing way I mean.

My sister did not mean to cause me offence, but was not using the term kindly.

She was discussing an individual who had made some complaint about how she felt on a social media network and said 'I'm worried about X'. When she detailed the complaint, I immediately knew why she was concerned (possible medical issue) and said, to reassure her, 'Oh I'm sure she's ok, Y would take action.' DSis said 'Yeah, but you know X. She's a bit speshul.' I said 'please don't use that term. It's offensive to me. But you don't need to worry because Y is in close contact with X and if there was further action needed, it would be taken.' DSis persisted and said 'I wasn't being unkind but you know X...she's a bit speshul...she is Lougle...you know like learning difficulties or something...' At that point I said 'Yes, but as I said, it's offensive to me, because DD1 is 'a bit speshul' and so, if we're honest, is 'DD2'. DSis said 'Oh well I wasn't talking about DD1....' which is the whole point.

You ask anyone with a prejudice against any 'type' of person and they're not talking about the few people with that characteristic that they've come to love and respect, it's 'all the others.'

'I hate Black people, they all....' 'Oh wait a minute...Bill doesn't do that...' 'Oh well I wasn't talking about Bill, he's alright...it's all the others.'

"The sister used it in the context of a gay person talking to a gay person" Absolutely not. How does having a sister who has a child with SN make you the mother of someone with SN????

You don't know the context because you weren't there.

No, now you have explained the situation Lougle I can see why you picked her up on it.

I stupidly jumped to the conclusion that your sister was talking about your daughter who had SNs when in fact she was talking about another 3rd party person.
In that situation the use of the description 'special' is inappropriate as the person does not have special needs, so the sister is using it as a derogatory term although I wouldn't fuel this misappropriation of the term by writing it as speshul'.

And I agree that I dislike like the term is special needs as much as is Downs - both are very wrong. But I still think that in the context I mentioned within a loving family and in a non-malicious way using the term 'special' is an acceptable shorthand description for 'has special needs'.

Glad that we cleared that up.

Going back a few posts - I would say my DS finds loud noises overbearing because he has sensory difficulties. No more or less difficult or more or less information than saying because he's a bit special.

Another who hasn't got great feelings towards Holland poem too. I be read it but don't live by it iyswim?

jossi I hope you continue to have a good relationship with your friend. If she'd lived with that that for a long time she could probably do with a friend too.

Ahh, I see. No, she wasn't talking about my DD1. She was talking about a person we both know, but not well. The basic premise on which she was using the term 'special' was that she felt this person would not be able to make a 'sensible' judgement about whether they needed medical attention.

I said on another thread, youarewinning, that I found 'Welcome to Holland' quite profound and inspiring as a student nurse on a burns unit (which is where I came across it). It taught me a lot when I found that my feelings had changed once I experienced having a child with SN myself. I read it occasionally and find it patronising and twee. I think lots of people think they empathise with parents of children with SN, but they have no idea.

Thank you polter,and others.I have actually found this whole conversation very interesting.As has been mentioned, the word autistic,just as the words gay,black,ginger etc are not offensive if used in the correct context but as a way to describe a bastard, they are. If someone/something is a bastard, why is it necessary to add what kind of bastard? The reason being is because the word bastard is merely being used to add insult.If one used the phrase 'autistic genius' or 'ginger beauty' for example, this portrays a different image and the terms are being used as compliments.
2boys-don't worry, I know what you mean but I must say that in the 4 years since my son's diagnosis, I have only been insulted once before this. I think what got me was it was so out of the blue and said in such a blasé manner that it caught me off guard.
Must say I don't understand how someone can say bastard is a non-offensive term but then is offended by 'ginger bastard'??!!??!

TBH apart from the whole patronising aspect of the Holland poem, I can't say I ever actually 'got it'. It seemed derogatory or at least weird to talk about Holland in that way as if it was some kind of booby prize that people ought to try and adapt to or find the best in.

It always felt a tad racist.

That's a great way of putting it lougle when I read it I just thought but my plane did land in Italy - I just bought the wrong guide book (which goes along with what I say about baby books - yeah I read them but realised pretty quick that Ds hadn't!)

Van,

I've seen people's liking of the Holland poem respected here but overall my impression is that the majority or posters on this board are well past finding comfort in that pile of drivel.

The thing that makes me laugh is that actually, ds's dna is in Holland, as part of the research study he is involved in...plus my dsis lives there....also, why did they pick on Holland as the place no one would intend to go to?

I think I take things too literally!

Tbh no body I think ( give it time - I'm sure I come up with examples) has ever said anything directly to offend me that hasn't come from pure ignorance.

When people talk about various sn conditions in a derogatory way I get offended, but I doubt I will ever hear "dyspraxic so and so" as hardly anyone has heard of it.

I do swear but I do get pveed when people swear in front of kids. But to some people it's as much part of life as breathing. I like the holland poem, but only needed to hear it once.

At the end of the day I didn't choose this path and given a choice I wouldn't if I totally honest. It has made me stronger but only because I had to be. I think we all have our own views.

But being fat myself, if someone next to me said "fat barsted" to a cat - I'd take it personally. ;0)

My DH is Dutch and DD is thus half Dutch - so we go to Holland all the time ... I think I'll find that poem to show DH.