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Semantic Pragmatic Language Disorder

72 replies

Eulalia · 03/03/2004 21:26

Apologies this is a bit long but I thought rather than retyping a load of stuff I would just copy and paste the document I gave to my educational psychologist who is very interested in this area.

Examples of Ds?s Semantic Pragmatic Language Disorder (age 4.5)

Ds had language skills from an early age which was appropriate to age, but he soon fell behind. His receptive language skills were fairly good when understanding concrete objects around him. However it became apparent at age 3 that he hadn?t moved on in terms of talking in more than one or two words together. He also made no attempt to talk about things around him. Even when questioned he didn?t attempt to answer and I was usually just met with a blank look. One day when he was about 3.5 I asked him what he had done at Playgroup and he finally said ?painting?. He was also engaging in quite a bit of echolalia at this time and I also began to notice idiosyncrasies in his speech and understand of language. On another occasion I asked him what he?d done at Playgroup ? I had only got to ?what did you ....?? when he interrupted me and said ?painting?. He hadn?t done painting at all that day ? his response was just a one word answer to the trigger question and bore no relation to reality.

His speech improved around age 4 but he still tended to repeat a lot of phrases over and over and would repeatedly ask for things till he got them.

Ds used to make up his own words eg ?bruined? when something wasn?t working or spoiled. I think this was a combination of ?broken? and ?ruined?.

A couple of months ago he was confusing me by asking for ?cold bread?. I spread some peanut butter on some bread but he didn?t want it. I started making some toast for dd and he said I want hot bread. He was actually asking for toast but decided instead that it was hot bread but had exchanged hot and cold.

He once most confusingly asked me when I handed him a piece of toast, ?I want some toast on it? - how can you put something on itself? I realised that he actually wanted margarine on it but because toast and margarine go together he had linked the two words. He was actually asking for margarine on the toast.

Ds often confuses opposites, eg in/out (?let the cat out? when the cat is already outside), upstairs/downstairs, on/off. He may say ?take my coat on?, rather than ?put my coat on? (confusing ?taking off? and ?putting on? ). Most conjunctions present a problem including ?or?. He finds a choice quite confusing and it is easier just to ask if he wants one thing, than wait for an answer before offering another. In general he finds relational words difficult, eg ?middle?. He finds words such as ?faster?, ?quicker? and ?louder? confusing and may mix them up and ask me to do something louder when he actually means faster.

Another example is using words that sound alike eg ?I want some bread soup? - Ds was definitely saying bread, and I finally worked out he meant ?red? soup which is actually tomato soup... so quite a leap from bread soup to tomato soup but this is the kind of linking I have to do. He thinks because bread and red sound the same then he can use either word.

He also calls ?crisps?, ?Christmas?.

Ds may also miss out part of a word. He had pasta at Nursery one day. I asked him and he said ?asta? ? I said you mean ?pasta? but he insisted it was called ?asta? enunciating it quite clearly without the p.

On the other hand he may add unnecessary words. Before he knew the phrase ?turn round? he would come out with phrases such as ?Mummy turn your head on your neck? if he wanted me to face him.

Ds finds the word ?not? difficult at times. He may say ?it?s working? when he means ?it?s not working?. He may also ignore words such as ?don?t? at the beginning of a sentence. So will ignore instructions to ?not do X? because he hasn?t acknowledged the not/don?t word. This can have important implications for commands such as ?don?t run into the road? which should be phrased in a different way. It is better to tell him to do something rather than to not do something as Ds finds it hard to visualise not doing something.

For some time he would use one core word to cover many different aspects or functions eg ?teeth?. This was referring to the objects itself but also extended to the toothbrush.

At the moment he is using the word ?funnel? to mean a funnel on a train but also a chimney and exhaust pipe from a car. He is concentrating on the action of the smoke coming out of the pipe rather than what it is attached to.

Ds is still having some problems with talking about himself and using ?I?. He is trying but gets mixed up. At the moment if he wants help putting on clothes he will say ?you do it for myself? which is partly an echoed phrase of me asking if he wants to something himself,

His speech can be a bit incoherent, at times not forming words properly, and he may start a sentence a few times over in a stammering manner as if searching for the right words. He may say ?oh I can?t think of it? and sort of bang his head in frustration.

Ds sometimes says ?please? and ?thank you? but isn?t consistent. He seems to think they are ?empty? words as he doesn?t understand the concept of politeness.

Ds uses few facial expressions and his voice can appear flat and monotonous at times. (However he can sing quite well and in tune!) He can also speak at an unnecessarily high volume. He may also ?bark? out commands, ?Mummy come this way? and expect me to come immediately. He is just starting to understand ?wait? but saying it doesn?t always mean that he will stop requesting whatever he wants over and over till he gets it. He is now also starting to understand ?later? which is very useful as it means he will now stop a task/activity and understand he can return to it.

Ds finds very abstract terms such as ?sister? very difficult. Things either are one thing or the other, and he is quite resistant to the idea that dd is both called dd and his sister. However he now understands that she is a girl and he is a boy. He also finds questions such as ?why did you do that?? impossible to answer. I don?t think he understands what ?why? means and also finds it difficult to connect a sequence of events.

February 2004

OP posts:
binkie · 04/03/2004 09:55

Eulalia, thank you for posting this - it is so interesting to see concrete examples.

I was wondering - as you don't mention it - whether when you ask your ds something (that he definitely will want to respond to) you sometimes get an answer only after the kind of prolonged limbo one used to get on intercontinental phone calls - like waiting for a signal to get to a satellite & bounce off again? I've seen this ("latency of response" ) described as a feature of dyspraxia but not SPLD (so far) - nor I think ASD.

Jimjams · 04/03/2004 10:06

It is an ASD feature. It's just a reflection of how long it takes them to process the request. Ds1 does this a lot. Something we were told early on is that its important to pause and allow time for him to respond (now ds2 usually jumps in- with ds1 folloing about 2 seconds later)

ks · 04/03/2004 10:21

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Davros · 04/03/2004 11:15

Agree with Jimjams about the processing, very common. Also mixing up prepositions, opposites etc, in fact my husband does this to a degree that it isn't "normal" e.g. you know the old turn right/left and the person goes the wrong way? He does that all the time without knowing, or realising and he can't tell he from she or can and can't in a sentence sometimes, he also doesn't know the difference between nodding and shaking. Some of its carelessness or not listening but there's definitely an element of mild disorder. Better get him checked out maybe I could claim DLA for him!

Eulalia · 04/03/2004 16:28

Binkie ? no he doesn?t really delay. He tends to either understand what I am saying straight away or hasn?t a clue and doesn?t even begin to try. ds was diagnosed as only mildly AS ? I would say the SPLD is much more of a problem.

However it is quite complicated with ds as some features of his language are autistic - interchanging words just to suit his own understanding - as I said below ?toast? also meaning margarine. However when looked at closely none of the incorrect usages are actually illogical ? autistic people like to be very logical, possibly why he is very resistant to being corrected because he does follow a logic ? his own. His earliest use was at 15 months when he had a lid obsession and he called lids ?hats? ? makes sense really doesn?t it! The latest is ?trouser leg? being a ?sleeve? which again makes sense. Also a lot of his early talking was to himself (autistic) and wasn?t? an attempt at conversation.

Ks ? how is your ds at writing?

Davros ? I think language problems are more common than we realise. When ds was diagnosed some of it made sense with me and why I?ve always been shy round people, and it was literally because I am lost for words. Quite often I forget words and it can be embarrassing. I seem to only ?know? them if they are attached to something concrete so am hopeless at general knowledge for example. However I can write very well and often have an ?idea? or ?concept? in my head and have to search for the right word, I believe that you can have thoughts/ideas without words (could get very philosophical here!) I hated presentations at Uni and would have to have everything written out in front of me - couldn?t do it spontaneously.

OP posts:
KPB · 04/03/2004 21:27

Hi Binkie and Eulalia
Just to give you a little bit of background. My dd is 4.5 years. She is in a language unit and doing very well. The criteria for admission to the unit is that you have to have a speech/language disorder. I also have ds aged 6 who has no problems. As I had someone to compare dd with I knew fairly early on that something "wasn't right". Dd didn't speak until she was about 2 and it was hard to know what she wanted as she didn't/couldn't communicate. She also had quite bad glue ear so we put it down to that. At 2 dd had a SAL assessment and it was then that I was told that dd had a "language disorder". I walked out of the assessment thinking "What?". Dd started to make some good progress with her speech as she attended an integrated special needs playgroup. They suggested that we got the Ed pysch. involved who also felt that Ellie had a severe delay/disorder.
We went for statutary assessment, Ellie was just over 3 and it was then confirmed that Ellie wasn't processing language in the normal way and had problems in the area of "pragmatics". Ellie attended ds schools' nursery which was a disaster from start to finish and we moved her into the unit after 6 months - which as you all know was the best thing we could have ever done!
Ellie has improved a lot but still has quite significant problems with language. She does echo (delayed, never immediate) quite a lot when she comes home from school. She finds he/she quite difficult and often gets these confused ie when talking to a girl "What is his name?". Dd is also a really good reader - also a sign of SPD. Dd also finds open questions hard, such as what did you do today, we have to give her pointers. You cannot really have long conversations with dd but she really does try and really wants to communicate. On the whole dd's eyecontact is very good but soemtimes finds it hard to give eyecontact to strangers. Dd does sometimes speak in learnt phrases but is now building on these and does seem to be speaking more freely.
Dd does have a lot of friends but still prefers to play alongside although is getting better at joining in now. Dd also finds abstract words difficult such as jealous, embarrased etc.
Sorry to waffle on but it is just a bit of background. We have seen so many people for dx and already had an incorrect dx of ADHD, could have been really dangerous a they offered us Ritalin, which we politely turned down!

Eulalia · 05/03/2004 18:07

KPB - it is interesting to hear about your dd, particularly as our children are the same age. I don't know anyone else who has this so it helps to compare. I am shocked at the ADHD diagnosis. From what you say your dd doesn't seem at all autistic although I know children with communication problems can have difficulties socialising for obvious reasons.

I didn't know that about reading - no signs of that here although I am ashamed to admit I've not really got the kind of books where I could test ds. He (almost) recognises numbers 1-10 so maybe I should try words. Part of me feels I don't want to interfere/confuse him before school. Any ideas?

We were much later with the various assessments and diagnosis. Looking back I wonder if I should have done something earlier but then again it probably wouldn't have made any difference to him. I don't think you can hurry an autistic child and he has caught up a lot in the last year in many ways - we are looking at schools for August just now.

OP posts:
Eulalia · 05/03/2004 18:14

Oh yes and a couple more examples .. hard to keep up with them...

Yesterday he said "I've got happy cups" (hiccoughs) - this I thought was charming and much more like an NT child's kind of joke

Today we had mandarins which we've not had for ages. I said "this is mandarin" and he said "no its called panda" !?!? Insisted on this... only thing I can think is that the word mandarin is rather long and he just focused on the 'manda' bit and changed this slightly to panda because I think he knows this word.

This sticking with what he knows is common and I think an autisitc feature - again today I was trying to tell him what a goat was and he just kept on going on about its coat ... maybe he'll be a poet some day!! Howver seriously I do worry about it holding his learning back - I mean you can't always stick with what you know because then you'd never learn anything new....

OP posts:
KPB · 05/03/2004 19:06

Hi Eulalia
Dd is now in reception but the unit started her reading in Nursery. I didn't realise how many words she actually knew until I tested her with ds's flashcards about 3 months ago. She knew most of them. She does know what they mean as well so that helps. I noticed that she could recognise words all around her and the school have obviously picked up on it and built on it. Dd knew numbers and letters from the age of 2-2 half! So maybe get some simple flashcards or the ladybird first word books are good as well. Dd is reading the Oxford Reading Tree at school and these are good. It is funny that you should mention the autistic side of things as this is the bit that always confuses me. I have seen so many different professions and have asked whether or not dd has asd, they have all said no. It is purely a langauge problem/disorder. It got to the point with the paed. after the 5th time of asking he really snapped and said look the reason I am sure she hasn't is a,b,c.... I am one of these people that would rather know but some children do just have language disorders. As for the ADHD dx, I think that ADHD is dx looking at certain behaviours and at that dd had bad behaviour (due to being in wrong school placement unsupported). Luckily I was strong enough to say that Ritalin was not an answer and that I didn't believe dd had ADHD. Since starting at unit dd is a lot calmer, although does still have "manic" moments. Spoke to teacher tonight who said that dd works much better in structured class time but finds the sfternoons where they have free play time harder.
Will your ds go to a mainstream school?
I also post on a really good website for SPD parents, you may have heard of it. It has got so much information and good ideas, it's excellent. I'll let you know more if you don't know already!
Have you had a dx of asd? I can't remember you had a def. dx or did you have a dx of spdld, sorry to sound so vague but a m just getting over the flu.

mrsforgetful · 06/03/2004 00:12

Eulaia- HI!!!

The Happy Cups reminded me of DS2's description of "YAWNS"....he used to call them "TIREDS"!!!!
Strawberries were "SHIBBY SHIBBY"

mrsforgetful · 06/03/2004 00:22

he also still says "That's what he dooooos' instead of 'Does' and mixes up 'His/her' and 'he/she'....now this is the son that we hope is NT ....however you never know!!! I have 'joked' before about all 5 of us being 'unique' ....
me,probably not 'mentally ill' as diagnosed- but Asperger's - Undiagnosed .....
with a husband undiagnosed aspergers
and
ds1 diagnosed aspergers ,
ds2 'on the way' to a diagnosis of ASD
and then 'poor' old
ds3 without a 'label'....reckon we should have 2 more kiddies ....then we really would be 'all the 7 colours of the rainbow'!!!

Eulalia · 06/03/2004 13:28

Mrs F

KPB - Your dd sounds like a really bright little girl. ds got his initial 'provisional' diagnosis last May of ASD. Then he had a 5 day assessment in Oct. He was talking in sentences by then so was easier to assess his speech. His final diagnosis was a mild autistic spectrum disorder with a semantic pragmatic language disorder.

Yes I would be interested in those websites if you can give me the addresses. thanks.

currently looking at schools - have visited 2 mainstreams with special needs units attached and also going to visit our local school (very small village school) where he would have an auxilliary.

They don't do any teaching of reading at nursery here. I was forgetting that ds loves a 'Letterland' video - not sure how much of it is the letter characters rather than the letters themselves but it is a start. I have tended to focus on pictures to try and get him talking and because many autistic kids respond well to this (apparently some think in pictures). I will try flashcards though.

Hope you feel better soon

OP posts:
ks · 06/03/2004 14:37

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Davros · 06/03/2004 19:22

Hyperlexia is a fairly common autistic trait

coppertop · 06/03/2004 19:31

Yes, ds1 seems to have some kind of hyperlexia. I hadn't realised that his numeracy and literacy skills were anything out of the ordinary until his playgroup leaader came over to tell me how shocked they'd been by him. As he's our eldest I didn't realise that 2yr olds didn't usually know how to put numbers in order etc.

JJ · 06/03/2004 19:59

Eulalia,
Where did your son get his 5 day assessment? Would you recommend it?
Thanks!

KPB · 06/03/2004 21:32

Eulalia - just to give you the spd parents address:- spdparents.members.easyspace.com/
It is such a good site with loads of info on spd (honestly, you could send hours reading all of the information. The people that post on the forum are really nice and also full of goodd information. Let me know what you think!
re. dd's reading skills, not only can she read but she has the understanding to go with it and understands the words/storyline. She will also sound words out so isn't just using memory but her knowledge of sounds. I have read up loads on hyperlexia, spoke to people etc. Still not convinced dd is on the spectrum though! With communication/language their are overlaps and obviously mild autistic "traits". This does not mean that the child is autistic!
Honestly, I have done so much research about autism, language disorders, spd and even adhd and know a hell of a lot of people who have children with similar problems! Every child is an indiviudual with their own strengths/weaknesses.
Thier are 50 children in dd's unit at school and although they have similar problems their aren't 2 the same (this includes 2 sets of twins)

Eulalia · 06/03/2004 22:32

I am a bit confused about hyperlexia and dyslexia - I can see how dyslexia gives difficulites but wondered about your glum face Davros.... if it means being good at reading then surely it is a good thing?? I am also interested to know that your dd can read KPB but has problems with language - does this mean that different parts of the brain are used for processing visual and auditory signals.... oh so many questions... yes thanks for the website I will have a look. Yep as you must know your dd would have to show the 'triad of impairments' to be classified autistic.

JJ - the assessment was in Aberdeen - you would have to live here to get it. Most places do have some sort of assessment centres though or are we just lucky here?

OP posts:
KPB · 06/03/2004 23:02

Hi Eulalia
I am not saying this to boast but wanted to add that dd is very bright and does seem to be good at most things. It even says in one of dd's reports for assesment that despite dd's significant language problem she does have a great ability to learn. Spoke to dd'd teacher on Friday and dd is in he top group for numeracy and literacy. I was a bit shovked but teacher went on that dd was a very able and intelligent little girl. She also went on to say that dd's understanding is better then i think and that she understands a lot that goes on in class. The point I am trying to make is that dd is a good all rounder with her learning. Not too sure on the dyslexia as I don't really know a lot. I know what you mean about so many questions. I have spent hours on the computer, reading, phonecalls to afasic and even the NAS. Sometimes I just have such a headache with the overload and the confusion that goes with having a child with a language/communication impairment. How much easier would it be, as you can with some conditions, if you could take a blood test and get a result that way. Apologies again but it's late and my mind is running away with me.
I do see dd's reading skill as a major advantage and as long as they are understanding what they are reading then I can't see a problem.

mrsforgetful · 06/03/2004 23:05

i wonder if ds2 is hyperlexic- he is always writing and is exact about pronounciation.....apparently theres something similar to do with numbers too....he's always counting/timing/measuring etc....reception teacher said he has a 'mathematical mind'...he has always loved patterns/symetry

Thomcat · 06/03/2004 23:14

Hi Eulalia . I hope you don't mind me saying this, as I don't have anything constructive to add but `i found your post very interesting and mad me just sit and think about 'stuff' for a while. Thanks for sharing that.

Davros · 07/03/2004 11:55

My glum face was because my understanding of hyperlexia is that it often doesn't go with real understanding of what is being read, unlike KPB's child. It can also be a "problem" in itself as it may be quite an obsession.

KPB · 07/03/2004 12:11

Hi everyone,
The trouble with spd's is that the children do have some mild autistic traits - but they are very mild. I admit even I get confused sometimes!! The good memory/reading is linked to this I am sure but I make sure that dd understands what she is reading by asking her questions, explaining etc. Funnily enough I mentioned it to dd's teacher on Friday as Hyperlexia is quite an american thing. If you had asked me when dd was 18months - 2 if she was autistic, I would probably have said "yes". Not that she had obsessions but she just seemed locked in her own world, had her own agenda. Didn't really communicate and had very little eyecontact. NOW, a totally different story but I think that the progress she has made could be down to the language unit! Obviously dd does still have quite significant problems as she wouldn't be in the unit and the way I see it is at the moment is making good progress. We do have good days and sometimes periods of bad days but I am finding things a lot easier to accept.

Eulalia · 07/03/2004 17:04

Thanks Thomcat.

I think this makes more sense now Davros. I find this whole area really very fascinating but very complex. I did wonder because ds appeared to recognise the word 'circus' but it was highly contextual, ie in a book we'd read often. I think some autistic people can have brilliant memories. However a lot of reading is memory anyway so it must help up to a point as long as one understands the rules for reading new words ifykwim.

I saw a prog recently about people who'd suffered memory loss. One girl could hardly remember what she was doing the next minute but had memorised the whole of a Dr Suess book and could recite it - it took a good 5 minutes for her to do this. But I wonder how much of it acutally had any meaning to her.

KPB - I looked at that website last night. It is very good (the jumping things can be a bit annoying!) lots of good practical tips too. Please feel free to 'boast' as much as poss as I am interested to know how much my ds is held back by his autism. That is the way I see it anyway. I think a large part of learning is willingness and acceptance of your own ignorance... ds thinks he is right and finds it difficult to understand that there is another world out there different from his own. so he has a real barrier to learning. It must be great for your dd to realise her own difficulties and for her to compensate and to try to get past them. ds (at the moment anyway) doesn't have a clue.

OP posts:
KPB · 07/03/2004 20:37

Eulalia - Hopefully in the right schooling your ds will also be able to reach his full educational potential. As you know I have seen first hand what can happen if a child isn't receiving the right education. Obviously their are other factors but I seriously believe being in a good school that understands really helps. I mean dd is supported constantly in school and I think it makes her feel safe and she relies on that support to help her to learn.
I'm glad that you find the spd website useful.The thing I like about it is that it is run by a mum who has a son with spd. The info. is great and also self explanatory. She also links to a really good asd site, on the forum board. I think it is called LadyA, or something.
The people who post are really friendly, very supportive and full of really useful information. I remember posting that it would be interesting to hear from a parent with an older teenager with spd and this lovely lady e-mailed me and told me all about her son. It was so kind of her and so interesting as I can never really imagine what dd will be like as a teenager! Mind you the same goes with ds!