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Original poster

Can school ask for me to keep dd home when there is a school trip?

33 replies

osospecial · 07/01/2014 19:29

I am a bit annoyed today that on dd first day back I'm told that she won't have school on Thursday as they are going on a school trip to the pantomime and dd wouldn't sit through a 2hr panto. (I do agree she wouldn't).
I was told this a lot when she was P/T, that she couldn't go on trips and had to stay home and always complied but this has bothered me today as now she is full time and I think if the trip isn't suitable then she should get to stay in school instead. She's in a unit with around 12 DC and 4 staff. I think about 4/5 of the class are not going. Why can't one of the teachers stay behind with them?
I work and its hard to get time off at such short notice.
Dd is only 4 so 'technically' not in the compulsory school age of 5 yet.
I did express my views to the teacher and asked if she could go to school for half day or something but he said they would be gone most of day as going to Mc Donald's afterwards! Also he said as dd needs 1:1 she wouldn't be able to go and stay in school instead as they didn't have the staff.
As the rest of the school/reception class? are going I feel like DDs teachers are being taken to help supervise rest of school and dd can just 'stay at home'.
Would you be annoyed at this? AIBU?

OP posts:

Littlefish · 07/01/2014 19:31

I would be extremely annoyed. With so few children, they should be able to find a trip which is suitable for all the children. I don't know about the legalities around it though as she is only 4.

Original poster

osospecial · 07/01/2014 19:48

Thanks littlefish, the trip to the panto is for the whole school I believe (the unit is part of a mainstream school) but as there are a few in her class not going I think they should have something in place for them, even if its just to stay in school or to meet them in Mc Donald's afterwards would be nice as dd would love that. Feel and like she's missing out again. The teachers in her unit are for the DC in that unit not to be used for the rest of the school to make up numbers of adults:children on trips.

OP posts:

PolterGoose · 07/01/2014 20:14

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Littlefish · 07/01/2014 20:18

Sorry, I misunderstood. Does she have a statement? Are the number of hrs 1 to 1 specified?

I absolutely agree with poltergoose.

coughcandytwist · 07/01/2014 20:28

School have a duty to make reasonable adjustments to enable children with a disability to go on trips etc. You should challenge them on this.
I had a similar experience and was told it would be 'best' for ds to not go and that 'lots of other children' also wouldn't be going. On the day he was the only child in his whole year in the school and they had provided nothing for him to do .

amistillsexy · 07/01/2014 20:29

I would be speaking to the Head about her/his commitment to inclusion.

Either 'The Unit' is part of the school, in which case, all the children are involved in a whole school trip, or it's not, in which case, it's not an 'inclusion unit', it's an exclusion unit!

Of course they should all go- it's a pantomime, ffs, not bloody Hamlet! What's the worst your DD will do, OP? Need to be taken out for a while to chill out? Then they could take a pop up tent along, with some familiar sensory toys and ask if they could put it up in the foyer, or else they could take her for a little wander round the outside of the theatre and have a look at the cars, or the shop windows. With a 1-1, there shouldn't be much of a problem, should there?

If she's likely to bolt, they need to ask you what you would do with her-do you still use a backpack with reins? Would you object to using them? I was still using them with DS at that age as he was a bolter (did I say was ?)

The school should have gone through all this and decided what strategies each child will need before agreeing to the trip. Instead, they have taken the easy way out and asked parents to keep the 'difficult' children at home. I would not be making it that easy for them if I were you!

coughcandytwist · 07/01/2014 20:31

Ask them for a copy of the trip risk assessment so that they can demonstrate to you how they decided that your dd couldn't attend.

MooMummyMoo · 07/01/2014 20:46

I'd be very cross. 1) she should be included in some way and 2) if she can't be included for whatever reason they should keep her at school. You shouldn't have to arrange time off work to cover what to my mind is their responsibility.

No experience as my DD hasn't yet started school but just to say how I would feel x

StarlightMcKingsThree · 07/01/2014 20:51

She might not be legally entitled to a full-time education (unless her statement says as such), but she is legally entitled not to be discriminated against.

They have options available to them. Organise a more accessible trip, get parent/volunteer helpers for the trip so someone can stay behind or hire a supply teacher.

StarlightMcKingsThree · 07/01/2014 20:52

Or, as other posters have said, take her anyway and plan for her needs on the trip.

Original poster

osospecial · 07/01/2014 21:26

Thanks, the teacher wrote in her home/school book something along the lines of 'due to the number of DC going they wouldn't be able to provide 1:1 to take dd for a walk around etc when she got fed up'. she doesn't have a statement yet but we are in the middle of the process (so I guess this helps my case for 1:1!)
She is probably going to be moving schools soon too. It's a shame as I have got on ok with her teacher up until now but he has wound me up with this. He acts like its just in DDs best interests to stay home that day.

OP posts:

coff33pot · 07/01/2014 21:48

She should be going with her specified 1 to 1 of it is on a statement. The fact they need more bodies to watch the rest of the kids is not your problem it's theirs. they can request parent volunteers like most schools do on bigger trips. A risk assessment should have been done as someone mentioned I think.

there is no reason someone could not take her for a walk to stretch her legs..........are they going to tell all the kids if they need the loo etc to cross legs as no one can take them???

It's wrong and I would be pissed off that she is being excluded from a chance to experience a panto even if she needs to stretch her legs once in a while grrrrr

amistillsexy · 07/01/2014 21:54

Is she in Reception, OP? I'm not sure, but I think that once they've accepted a child into the Reception class, the 'not yet five' argument no longer holds- otherwise, you'd get Receptioners being kept off school every other day whenever parents felt like going shopping, having a duvet day or going on holiday during school term times, and we all know how that's frowned upon!

Thinking about it, I was in exactly the same boat a few years ago, OP. Ds didn't yet have his Statement, he was in Y2. The school was going on a whole school trip somewhere, and they needed the person they'd allocated to DS to supervise others. The HT asked me to keep him at home and I refused. He said they didn't have the staff to look after him 1-1 on the trip, so I said 'fine, he can come to school and you can teach him instead'. Needless to say, she wasn't that keen. I realised that the Lunchtime organisers wouldn't be needed since the children would all be out on a trip (the same as at your DD's school, I presume, since they're all having MacDonald's on the day of the rip), so I suggested they employed one of the LOs for the day as DS's 1-1. They had a great day, and he was as good as gold .

Maybe you could go in and suggest the same, OP? I find I often get better results when I go in and say 'This isn't acceptable, but I have a suggestion that I would find acceptable,' rather than just leaving it up to them ( although that has it's place as well, of course ).

Original poster

osospecial · 07/01/2014 21:55

Coughcandy that's awful for your DS
Amistill, I had to laugh at the 'hamlet' comment! The worst dd would do would be to run off/run around the theatre or do high pitched noises all the way through, maybe have a tantrum if they tried making her stay on her seat! We don't use a backpack with reins as she is good at holding a hand but just likes to be walking rather than sat still.
She wouldn't really enjoy the panto but she does enjoy school so don't see why she should miss out on a day even if she stayed at school. She would've enjoyed the McDonald's part too!
I'm annoyed as well at the short notice as it is particularly hard for me to get the time off this week, its hard enough juggling all the holidays and yesterday's inset day!
Your right starlight, they do have options, if there wasn't enough staff for any of the mainstream DC to go they would 'have' to organise more staff/supply teacher, whatever it took not to exclude anybody.

OP posts:

Original poster

osospecial · 07/01/2014 22:06

I'm not sure if it counts as a reception class amistill, its an assessment unit but no I dont think I'd be allowed to take her out as and when I pleased for holidays or 'unauthorised' absences.

OP posts:

Strikeuptheband · 07/01/2014 22:13

Oso, that is appalling!
DD is still in nursery and we get stuff like this a lot. My usual stance (backed by autism outreach team) is to politely but firmly write bsck in the home-school book "I am sorry to hear that (eg) you won't be covered on such and such a date by another member of staff. However, I would still like to bring DD on that day as having a routineroutine is very important to her and she needs to be attending school every day. Obviously without cover this would be extremely difficult for her to attend school, but I would hope that something could be organised to allow DD to attend nursery that day with her friends?"

Obviously inside I am screeching "You inconsiderate wotsits!!! How bloody dare you exclude my DD so blatantly! " but I go the route of passing the ball back into their court.

bochead · 07/01/2014 22:13

Any reason you can't go as her 1:1 so that she can feel included? Otherwise she'll feel even more left out when they do the inevitable classroom activity or chat about afterwards.

Most school trips for this age group recruit some parent/friend/granny volunteers to help out in mainstream, don't see why it should be any different in the unit. I don't like that you haven't even been offered that option.

School should not just expect you to have her at home because they can't be bothered. Personally I find the whole attendance regulation stuff very hypocritical as it only seems to apply to schools when it suits them (yup I've done the stint of part time attendance only too).

Original poster

osospecial · 07/01/2014 22:14

That's a good idea thanks amistill, dd would have a great time just playing in the playground and on the gym equipment indoors all day, I should tell them to bring her back a happy meal too

OP posts:

nennypops · 07/01/2014 22:14

I wonder what would happen if you just said to them that no, she is meant to be in school, that is where she is going to be, full stop. They are paid to educate her full time, after all.

Strikeuptheband · 07/01/2014 22:17

So basically I would do that! I would write back and state that you will still be bringing her in anyway. I agree with you that it is likely they are using your DD's 1:1 to mske up numbers for the trip which isn't on.

Original poster

osospecial · 07/01/2014 22:27

Passing the ball back in their court might be an option strikeup, sorry to hear you are having the same rubbish!
No, I've not been given the option of going with her on the trip with her bochead although I can't see what grounds they would have for refusing that option. She has quite severe speech & understanding issues and I don't think she would understand the fact that they had been on the trip without her and feel left out or upset by it but who knows, i often wonder if she understands more that we think iykwim. I'd hate for her to be sad about being deliberately excluded from something.

OP posts:

Original poster

osospecial · 07/01/2014 22:30

Yes nennypops good idea, I told the CT on the phone earlier that I wasn't sure what I would do about work/childcare at that short notice, I'll just write in her book tomorrow 'sorry, couldn't get time off work, she will have to come to school as normal' and see what they say

OP posts:

amistillsexy · 07/01/2014 22:35

I love Strikeuptheband's letter. It is absolutely right and spells everything out very clearly. I would definitely use that.

I would also suggest that an 'assessment unit' would be even more keen to have their children go on this trip, as it gives them an opportunity to 'assess' how the children manage when taken out of their usual environment, which is, after all, part of their aim in educating our children, is it not?

Ooooh, I wish I could come and have a word with the staff at your DD's school, Oso, I'd love to have a discussion wipe the floor with them .

Original poster

osospecial · 07/01/2014 22:47

Please do amistill, I'm not very good at this type of thing! Although I've found the angrier I get at all the injustice from every angle all the time helps

OP posts:

amistillsexy · 07/01/2014 23:52

Try being a velvet bulldozer

Unfortunately, I have to say, I have got better at it over time, although I wish I hadn't had to .

We're all behind you on this one, Oso x

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