Autism is.................

[mrsforgetful]

Can you help me?

In my 'quest' to get a diagnosis for DS2 i am keen to 'prove' to the school that not all ASD children .......

Have Poor Eye Contact
Are Naughty
Rock
Flap Hands
or are Withdrawn.

We all have to 'deal' with the 'stereotype' image that people have when we mention the 'A' word.

The latest argument the school have is that 'he's just not naughty enough' and 'really not a problem'....I insist that it takes him tremendous effort to 'conform' at school- only to 'meltdown' at home.

So really i'd like you to describe things which you notice about your angels- that aren't 'what people expect' to see.

This is for anyone- but if you have a diagnosis then that would be great to know too

MANY THANKS

P.s.....one of ds2's 'cutest' things is how rigid he sleeps in bed- on his tummy head tipped back abd legs bent back at the knees- he's almost in a 'semi-circle' --- a OT mentioned that ASD can cause a child to be very rigid at rest- not relaxed- so wondered if this is the same? Obviosly doesn't effect school....but he did this as a baby- also slept with eyes open slightly!!!!

Ds1 doesn't fit the withdrawn and unaffectionate stereotype. He will often leap on us and give us enormous hugs.

He does have good eye contact sometimes, usually when he first sees/meets someone. He will look at them to say hello, but after that it's not so great.

He's never ever done the rocking backwards and forwards thing. He gets his movement 'fix' by jumping or jiggling from one foot to the other.

He's not what you'd call a naughty child either - even to those people who don't realise that he has SN. He's usually described as being cheeky or mischievous. He is also seen as being quite a friendly little boy.

He used to flap his arms when he was younger and wanted something but this has almost disappeared except for when he gets really upset.

I'm trying to think of more stereotypes but my brain doesn't appear to be working very well.

doesn't flap

eye contact can be very good (can be none-existent as well).

Very affectionate (at times too affectionate- eg will hug the plumber).

teases us (pretends to do something we've told him not to).

Ummmmmm

I know that I don't have any personal experience of ASD children , but I have taught a few. Since other threads have opened up this board to parents of NT kids, I thought I'd add my thoughts. I hope that you don't mind.

These have all been AS or very high functioning Autistic. My overwhelming feeling is that these children are 'different' (sounds a daft thing to say but I'll try to explain). These children are almost all articulate, but when you talk to them you end up thinking 'different'. When they approach a task,'different', dealing with their peers 'very different'. It is rather like I would imagine talking to someone from a vastly different culture would be like. Things don't gel, they jar.

And as for Naughty. No, not naughty, Auti! There is none of the 'in your face, what are you going to do about it?' that you get with NT kids. With the ASders I have worked with it is just a response that they make to a given situation. It isn't meant to be confrontational, it just 'is'.

THey have been some of the most challenging, and wonderful students that I have ever worked with. They may have been Martians in the playground, but they are scientists in my lab!

not having to put up with double glazing salesman at the front door (du dye du dye- as ds1 kept trying to slam the door in his face). It has some advantages. (not many!)

I like that - "Autie - Not Naughty".

Ds1 also seems to be like a little adult. I think this is part of the reason why people have always assumed that he is a lot older than he actually is. He doesn't react to things in the same way that an NT child of his age does and I think that fools a lot of people into thinking he is very mature. This makes it even harder for them to understand when something relatively minor (to us) sends him into meltdown.

Jimjams - when salesmen phone us we just hand the phone to ds1. He'll chatter away quite happily in his own little language. Eventually they hang up.

MrsForgetful

My DS1 does not have particularly good eye contact. However he doesn't rock (never has). He used to flap his hands when he was excited or agitated about things, but like others have said, this is much diminished now and you'd have to be very vigilant to see much noticeable flapping now.

I also wouldn't say that DS1 is "naughty" in the sense of "deliberately breaking the rules". In fact, he's a very "rule-based" child and he feels happier when he knows the rules. Of course, the "rules" that govern interactions amongst a group of children are complex and subtle and not easy to discern - therefore DS1 has more trouble in that situation than in one-to-one with an adult (when he is 99% of the time fine). But woe betide any child who is in DS1's eyes "breaking the rules" which leads to "bad behaviour" e.g. pushing another child who was not lining up in the correct place, biting a child on the finger because they weren't arranging the dominoes properly...I could go on.

DS1 is also not a very relaxed child - he is a fidgety nervous ball of energy who eats standing up or at best perched on the edge of a chair with one foot on the ground. He is not exactly clumsy but he is not "at ease" with himself physically either. I alwasy find it very hard to explain what I mean with that one.

the child eating with half his bottom on the chair and one foot to the floor.....have you been spying on us!!!! That is ds2 to a tee!

Also AUTIE is a fantastic way of seeing 'NAUGHTY' !!!! HMB ....please teach my boys!!!!

Finally....another thing....ds2 is into digimon playstation games at the moment....now as far as 'knowing' every detail...he's full on in there....however if i were trying to 'demo' this to a professional- i would find it really hard. What i mean is say he was still into Beyblade or Bionicle- then i could simply TAKE A LOAD WITH US & as he started playing the running comentary would begin- however with the pstation- not so easy....plus i do not understand the game?! Any other playstation mother/widows (!) will know what i mean he will prattle endlessly about 'HP,MP,cards and then there's abilities,items and weapons!'...... When he was younger he wrote 'books' (50+) pages long about Thomas the tank,Morph,Sooty,Bionicle lego,and finaly Beyblades.... i have them all in the attic- would that 'Prove' this obsessive play thing ...or not?

I know he has asperger's i just need someone to agree on paper- then i can begin to stop needing to justify.....i'm beginning to feel like i have an illness (like that muncheshousm??!ooh spelling sucks) in that i feel i am scared i will 'make' my child autistic in my desparation to 'prove' he is autistic.....is that crazy or what? Any doctor etc reading this.....take heed.....this is what it's like when you don't get listened too.

Can you video him playing digimon and take the video to show them? And yes, I would definitely take the books he did when he was younger.

Mine has gone through phases of doing the things that autistic children "don't do" to excess, e.g. excessive eye contact which was staring at you until you look back and then looking away (attention seeking), hugging so much that at one time I thought he'd never get off me! For us its often been a case of "normal" behaviours but to excess or inappropriately, e.g. when people are around to go off and rock on a chair in another room. Mine's also very physically able and used to climb up anything, later I realised that it was partly to be able to jump down very hard on the floor for sensory feedback. I know a boy who people used to think was interested in books but the trained eye could see that he was just flipping the pages and getting visual stimulation thta way, still something to work from though. Don't know if this quite fits the point of the thread...?

Ds1 has very good eye contact, does not flap, is very affectionate and he is even quite imaginative.
He still however qualifies for a diagnosis of Autism

DAVROS!!!!!! the climbing and jumping......could that be why ds2 when talking to me has to be permanently either stepping on and off constantly the toilet or a chair/setee.....or walking up and down the room .He does not stop until he has finished talking- and makes it extremely hard to follow his 'monologue'.
And at meals he will keep reaching one foot to the floor - or sits right on the edge of the chair (both feet down)......when doing ALL these things HE TALKS WELL AND EATS BETTER.....than if being 'forced' to restrain himself.
Also if we are at mcdonalds or at the till in a shop- he will hold on to the counter with both hans and do 'bunny hops' with his legs.

What you said felt VERY relavent to me!!

MrsF, yes I think all that repetitive physical stuff or having to touch things is sensory-related. In theory they can't "place themselves in space" and so need contact or repetitive actions to know where their body is! Mine never used to walk anywhere, always jumped from A to B and now will do a sudden burst of bunny hops, its quite funny And he just loves a big thud down onto the ground, both feet planted, floor tiles all cracked....

Something else my DS1 likes is deep pressure - he likes me to sit on him (!) and he gets his tubby little brother to lie on top of him. He likes being covered with all the cushions in the house and pressed down.

I know a boy who gets UNDER his mattress and likes his mother to lie on top! See Temple Grandin's squeezing machine

I've read about that Davros.

When I was going through the "is he or isn't he" stage of worrying about DS1, it seemed quite a significantly autistic trait.

Yes to all the fidgetty things and jumping about. Eye contact fairly good but not brilliant, can also appear deaf but could be due to language problems (see below). He also appears very expressionless but may lapse into an expression but overdo it - at the moment he has discovered frowning. He finds people's expresions funny and may ask me to 'do' certain faces. He may treat someone like an object - an example is pushing past a pram at nursery (I actually thought for a moment he was going to speak to the child) to get to the light switch.

ds can behave very well - and doesn't fit into the naughty style of a NT child - ie cheeky expression/language, but will scream if something isn't 'right' and this will extend to other people as well. Barks out orders - see 'bossy boots' thread! His voice can be over-loud too - inappropriate for the circumstances.

How is your ds's language skills Mrs F. My ds has SPLD which one can have without being autistic but many autistic children suffer to some extent. Does he find some instructions difficult to follow at school? I can give examples of ds if you wish. Does he take things literally? How does he talk and what is the extent of his vocubulary? Is this normal for his age.

My ds's latest invention is to call the bottom of his trouser legs 'sleeves' - makes sense doesn't it when you think about it - why should sleeves only be on arms?

Hi Eulalia
Your ds sounds just like my dd who they also suspect has a spld!!! The loudness and asking to do funny faces like "do a sad face". Also the bossiness. Just felt like I could almost have been reading about dd!!!!

Another thing my son does, which doesn't "fit" his level of ASD or ASD generally, is he asks for things he wants that he could easily just get himself and he asks to go upstairs to his trampoline or the the loo. As he is non-verbal this is all done by getting our attention/eye contact and using Makaton mostly, sometimes PECs. But there is no "reward" in him asking and he could just help himself or go off but he still asks. I would say this has happened in the last 2 years or so, possibly since he went to school.

My ds does too Davros! Drives me mad - paricularly when he drops his spoon right next to his chair and yells for me to get it. He seems to swing from extreme independence and insistence on doing it for himself to helplessness.

and do any of 'yours' HATE to EXTREME 'past' obsessions....ds2 LOVED Thomas the Tank from 2-5yrs.....obviously (?) at 7 he's 'outgrown' it....however he reacts trerribly whenever i mention his 'love' of it and refuses to discuss it etc........if the obssession was 'still' age appropriate......is it possible to 'hate' something so much that previously dominated EVERY waking moment. I say age appropriate as i can kind of accept that at 7 a NT child would 'out grow' it.....however we expected him to progress to 'Hornby' etc....so to 'abolish' it all together was quite a shock.

Also similarily- can obsessions be 'full on ' for a few months then dissappear- then come back again????
Or.....as is the case at the moment- he plays playstion after school - then Beyblades after tea.......he is now 'refusing' to play beyblade at any other time.He calls beyblade his 'evening activity'

My DS was diagnosed 2 days ago with high functioning ASD.
He is very affectionate, almost to the point of over familiarity with certain people and in certain situations.
He appears to play very enthusiastically with other children his own age. Although it is generally play that is led by him.
He is constantly playing imaginitively, but generally refering to books, TV, films, visits etc.
He loves repetition, and gets so totally involved and over excited that he crys in pain and sobs inconsolably
His naughtyness can be erratic, angel one minute, demon the next, but hey he's 4. I've only just begun this rollercoaster, I really don't have a clue what seperates the ASD from normal 4 year old behaviour.
Don't want to tell people yet because we're scared they might treat him differently, well meaning or not, and I don't feel confident enough to sound convincing or strong. Knowledge is power I guess.

Hi Jazzy

Sounds like my son tom at the same age. he's 10 now- ADHD/ASPERGER'S.

He used to want to cuddle/squeeze everyone- and at school started licking people- as he had been told not to kiss them.He used to appear to be shaking them- but infact he was trembling from the effort to not squeeze- if that makes sense!

I always said he had a 'hunger for life' as he was so enthusiastic about everything

one thing that at that age i remember was his hate of heights!!