Decision time

[Lesley25]

I could write a huge thread about this but i'm going to keep it short and simple and just need to make sure i haven't missed anything.

In summary, my ds's mainstream school has expressed their concerns about my ds and cannot provide a workstation/room for 1:1. The school have started to develop a reputation for not being as "inclusive: as they should be.

There are three options for my ds (Has asd currently has full 1:1 support started ms reception sept 2013)

Option 1. Stay at the ms he is in, even though head teacher is not keen 1:1 TA seems to "always" be doing other things rather then 1:1 and isnt receiving support from school re training. She often says to me "I can keep him safe, but i feel like i should be doing more for him". OT has been refused access to train TA by the ht. I suspect an effort to force my hand and take my ds out.
Pros- DS even though largely non verbal seems to like going, but he is such a placid boy i'm worried he is just being "compliant".

Option 2: A lovely MS very small village school. Experience of children on the spectrum and deemed "very inclusive". Small class sizes of 12.

Option 3 - Great ss. But we would lose a 1:1 TA . Its 1:3 and ep and speech therapist both say 1:1 is imperative.
I believe this to be true too.

I'm keen on option 2, i've visited both option 2 and 3 twice now and i have a meeting booked with my ds 's current ms to discuss next week.
Have i missed anything?

Lesley I would go with the ss if he is happy at the mainstream he is at is it worth moving him and possibly having to move him again inthe future .tjat is why I started my dd in ss she is very hard to settle sp I didn't want to disrupt her further into her schooling but best of luck whatever you devide

Thanks autumnsmum. I did think about that. but its losing the 1:1 TA that really bothers me, as he can just drift. Its such a bloody hard decision. The responsibility if i'm honest is really overwhelming.

The responsibility is massive we had to choose a school for dd earlier this year and it's so hard .as I said once before at dds school they are under strict instructions to intervene and guide her if she starts to drift as she will be happy just fiddling,pouring etc once again good luck

Why would you lose the 1:1 at SS? If EP and SALT both say 1:1 is imperative, then surely you have a case for 1:1 at SS? You might have to go to Tribunal to get it, but if this is what your experts advice?

Have the EP and SALT specifically said he would need 1:1 in ss? Being in a small class with a specialist teacher and a couple of specialist TAs plus, say, constant access to therapists is very different from being in a large ms class.

I'd go for 2.
1 is no good as if its this bad already its probably not going to get better soon. DS is the school's first child with classic autism at school and while i'm sure it will be better for those who come behind its like I'm training the teachers each year and its exhausting and frustrating and the HT is useless.
3 I would need to go and see and spend time in. The first time I visited the SS i was impressed but largely I just chatted to the teacher who seemed great. The second time I noticed while she was chatting to me a boy was lying on the floor watching a glitter ball for an hour and no-one intervened and redirected him. DS would happily have laid on the floor all day every day. SS or mainstream there are good and bad. That school had 4:10 support but 2 staff could easily be taking one child who needed lifting to the toilet which left 2:9 support and required the children to be more self reliant and self motivated than DS would have been. He is very passive so needs 1:1.
2 sounds like the best option to me.

But it depends on the child and the quality of SS.

1:1 in MS is very different to 1:3 in SS. Honestly. Almost all of the children in DD1's SS would need 1:1 or 2:1 in MS. It's just different in SS.

In MS DD1 would have needed 1:1 just to keep her safe, let alone learn anything. In SS she has a safe environment, so any support she gets is just for learning.

Only you can make this decision. No decision is forever, necessarily.

Lougle once again I completely agree with you .also dd2 has had lots of speech and other therapies which would be harder to access in ms

Well, Option 2 does sound lovely, but please don't disregard the special school because of the reduced ratio.

Often SS are set up so differently that the things your child would need 1:1 for aren't even present. The cohort would also be similar so things like language used, school rules, size of classroom, security, facilities are all geared up to enable your child to be much more independent.

Does Option 2 want your child? That would be have a big impact on my choice.

It really is so hard to explain. When I went to look around the SS for the first time I said 'will she get 1:1 because she'll really need it.' The HT very patiently explained that it's something nearly every parent asks who comes from MS settings, but it really isn't necessary (or optimal) in the SS setting.

For example, I asked about 'low distraction work spaces' and asked 'well which room would she go to for that then?' The HT looked at me as if I had two heads and said 'workstations move.'

At MS schools children are taken out of the normal classroom to do extra work, 1:1 work, SALT, OT, etc.

In SS it's all woven into the school day in a way that there is very little 'extra support'.

SALT - DD1 has a group (her class) each fortnight, but during the group the TAs and Teacher are involved, so that they can have the techniques modeled by the SALT. Then they continue using them throughout the fortnight. If a child needs direct SALT for a specific issue (ie. DD1 has been doing some cued articulation) that's a 'bolt-on'. Or a SALT may talk to the teacher about a child showing some difficulty in a specific area.

OT - they have Rainbow Road, a programme for OT, and all the children use Rainbow Road. If the teaching staff find there is an issue they can't address with Rainbow Road, they consult the OT for advice and the OT specifies a course of action/looks for equipment/etc.

The school site is secure, so children who would otherwise be known as 'runners' can show independence in taking the register, etc. If they 'run' there are only so many places they can run to, there are walkie talkies between reception and classes, plus CCTV. So they know if little Johnnie has gone to hide behind the curtains.

Thanks everyone.
I never thought of fighting for 1:1 in ss. But as a lot of you have said, it seems the environment is set up differently to adjust.
Its very true about a 1:1 in ms just keeping ds safe, let alone trying to engage any learning.

I'm off again to meet with the option 2 again. I'm determined to see every school option at different parts of the day to make sure i'm completely informed about my choice.

I'll post back as to how i get on.

Another thought I don't know your son but at sp sch my dd has friends which she has never had before pls keep is posted

autumnsmum that is so true. DD1 had 'kind peers' in MS preschool. When she started SS she made friends.

I've said it before that some children at her school who are fully mobile, some use kaye walkers, or standers, or wheelchairs. Some use speech, some makaton, some PECS, some AAC. Some eat food, some purees, some NG tube, some PEG feeds. They are all truly seen as the 'same' by the children.

In fact I had to have quite a conversation with DD1 because she decided that one of her friends with no speech was being rude when she blew raspberries. DD1 honestly hadn't realised that for her, that was 'talking'. She just saw her as 'a friend' and thought 'well I'm not allowed to blow raspberries, it's rude!'. We had to chat about how words are 'speaking' for her, makaton is 'speaking' for her friend x and raspberries are 'speaking' for her friend y.

Also, just because a child isn't allocated full 1:1 support at SS doesn't mean they don't get 1:1. They break up the classes so that they do whole group stuff at times, then small groups for other things, etc. So DD1 may get some 1:1 numeracy teaching while half the class go swimming (each child gets to go once a fortnight) and the remainder do some ICT, etc.

Many of the children at my DS's indie SS used to have 1:1 when they were previously in mainstream schools. However, none of them have 1:1's in this school because of the way the ss operates means that their needs are fully meet within class (eg tiny class sizes, OT provision embedded within lessons, communication needs met as whole class activities, dyslexia support embedded in all lessons etc). So my DS's indie ss has a holistic embedded approach and therefore 1:1 isn't needed. Also, like lougle says, a lot of support is 1:1 anyway. Tiny class-sizes means that the TA can give 1:1.

However, if your DC has physical or medical needs, then limited 1:1 might still be needed in ss to carry out those needs. (Sorry, I can't remember if you DC does?)

They also have a practical curriculum, often. So for DD1, if she's making pizza in cookery, she'll often go to the shops to buy the ingredients.

When they go on school trips, they make their lunch the day before at school. So that they embed those concepts.

They may be painting, but there will be OT elements built in, etc.

Hi my son needed 1:1 in a mainstream class of 30 but in a ss class of 8 children, he doesn't, though the ratio of staff is still high. Everything is so different in ss for him. Circle time, he can follow it and take part, he stays seated (I have actually seen this with my own eyes!!) and joins in. In ms, circle time would fly over his head and his 1:1 would remove him and do something different with him. I guess it depends on the level of learning difficulty. The level of work is pitched at a much lower level and this is right for him. From my perspective, it's lovely to have him come home singing endless songs he has learned and actually telling me bits and bobs about what has happened during the day. Without 1:1 in ms school he would have been a health and safety risk, with his tendency to wander off. But he is more engaged where he is, so this doesn't happen as much. He does have a keyworker but I am happy that he doesn't have 1:1 as such, he is able to have a degree of independence within what is a safe environment. Only my perspective but hope this helps!!

Thanks everyone.
I had my second visit today with option 2 (lovely small ms) and met with the senco and ht again who were very positive. i asked this time if they would mind telling me about the other asd children within the school and asking permission from their parents prior to my visit. They did and so i got to see how their support and TA interacted and also the provisions put into place for them.

They had several children all between 5-9 years who are on the spectrum so i got to see how the provision would change as the years went by.

It was eye opening.
Mainly because of the friendly and "sen inclusive" tutors and teachers. This is, i think because the school in previous years did not have the most glowing ofsted report - based on the levels attained of the children and the relatively small proportion which would have made up the averages (only 15 max per class, 75 in the whole school.

The ht also said she would have to recruit my ds 's TA so that process could take several weeks but she was keen for that ta to be the right person for my ds. All positive again as the current ms used a (they said) experienced ta.
On a final note, she was fine with us allowing the salt and ot to come in and train up the TA and monitor progress on a weekly basis with the 2 professionals obviously on a private basis only (we are going to tribunal soon for this anyway to be including on the statement).

My one and only criticism is that eh rooms were small and they sometimes mix reception and year 1 together so that would be 28 children in one room and also the environment reminded me of more of a "continous provision/nursery" for reception children.
I also visited with my SALT this time and she explained that my dc would almost need an individual more structured curriculum to focus on language and cognitive activities to prevent drifting.
The ht and senco were fine with that.

Now, i'm seeing the ss again on monday - we know we will lose the 1:1 but as everyone has said, it probably won't be necessary.

I'm going to use my gut instinct now as i really cant see how ss could be better then the ms with everything i've described. As everyones said previously and on other threads- "you just know"...

TOWIELA - The ss is exactly like you describe your dc's indie ss. The only big thing for me is that the ss caters for children with profound Learning disabilities also, so in the early years you can get a quite a mixture.
My ds has moderate asd no physical issues - now on one words and can now copy those one words and recognise phoenics. Just turned 5 so one of the oldest in reception.

The visit sounded really good and very positive. Yes - definitely go with your gut instinct.

Tbh, I would totally ignore the school not having a glowing Ofsted reports. My DS previously went to a ms indie school rated "outstanding" - so outstanding that it nearly gave him a nervous breakdown because they couldn't cater for his disabilities!

TOWIELA- I hear you, i went with that option too

My DD is pretty severe and would never manage in mainstream

But thrives with 1:2 or 3 in SS

Starlight option 2 does want my child. They have one space left..

I also wouldn't worry about the mix of abilities as in sS they tend to produce a plan for the individual child based on that child's abilities

Thanks Fanjo - I'll add that to my list to ask about when i see them again on monday.

sorry everyone, can i ask , what age / year were your dc when you moved them to ss/indie ss/different ms?