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MN Campaign This is my child - what happened?

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SallyBear · 06/11/2013 09:24

Huge amounts of fanfare. Guardian article, Radio 5 Live interviews, lots of debate on this board

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MNHQ

RowanMumsnet · 06/11/2013 11:56

Oh no - we're really sorry if it looks as though we're not following up.

The initial launch phase was all about drawing attention to the myth-busters and getting people's attention; we think we did that pretty well (it got huge coverage on Twitter and Facebook, as well as lots of mentions in the media, as you say).

The idea is to keep using the campaign as an umbrella for issues related to additional needs. Our plan for this quarter was to do a webchat around the SEN aspects of the Children and Families Bill - but this has been delayed a bit because lots of the people we'd like to feature are horribly busy and a bit difficult to pin down.

We're really sorry that from your point of view, this meant it looked like we weren't doing anything - we are keeping the wheels turning behind the scenes, but we do appreciate that this looks perilously similar to doing nothing if we don't keep you informed Blush.

Completely take your point about being more active on Twitter on the hashtag. The Bloggers Network were going to do another round-up post I think - we'll see if we can find out when that's happening and make sure we give it some welly. And we'll try to be more regular in our Twitter activity.

If any of you have suggestions for other activities that could come under the campaign umbrella - as we say, things along the lines of the webchat around SEN - do please keep the suggestions coming.

Thanks
MNHQ

MNHQ

RowanMumsnet · 06/11/2013 17:37

Hello again

Right - obviously there are some issues here (and I should hold my hands up and confess that it was me who suggested to zzzzz that she start a thread about disablist language). It is something we at MNHQ have been planning to have a discussion with posters about for some time. We're really really sorry if you felt under pressure to do this zzzzz - our bad. We will try to bring it up in the site webchat on Friday and see if we can open up the issue then.

In all honesty, there are times when we feel genuinely unsure about what to do. In the case of the use of 'speckle' (quoted above), you can see the post here. To us, it looks like a poster quoting a word that her own child uses to refer to herself. (To add to the confusion, to the best of our knowledge it's a neologism - ie, a completely new word that doesn't as yet have any particular implications beyond those that each person reading it chooses to bring to it.)

So on thoses bases - it's a made-up word, and a word that a bona fide MNer says her own child uses about herself - we decided to let it stand.

We're honestly interested to know how you'd have us handle things like this. We don't claim to always get it right, as you know. But (as we said to zzzzz in our message to her), we're mindful of the fact that as well as trying to protect our users from having to read outright disablist terms, we're also (at MNHQ) trying to bring along with us a community of thousands and thousands of posters, many of whom will never even have heard of the term 'disablist'. And one of the things we need to consider is whether an approach that deleted absolutely every complained-of term - every variation of 'special' for instance, or every use of 'special' in quotation marks - would actually end up alienating many of the people we're trying to bring along with us.

But as ever, we're genuinely interested to know what you think.

MNHQ

RowanMumsnet · 06/11/2013 17:44

Oh and two other recent examples that we'd be genuinely interested in having your input on:

a post written by someone whose husband has Asperger Syndrome: the poster wrote that sometimes she feels her husband is 'dead behind the eyes'. We left this to stand on the basis that this poster is describing her own experience of her relationships with her own husband (rather than generalising about all people with AS), but we've had some very passionate/angry reports saying that the post is extremely offensive to everyone with AS.

And a post on a thread about an emotionally abusive relationship, in which a poster said 'it sounds to me as though the person you're talking about has a personality disorder.' We got a report from an MNer who does actually have a diagnosed personality disorder, saying that she found the implication (that someone displaying narcissistic tendencies might have a personality disorder) offensive. We did actually delete this one, but caused some confusion on the thread by doing so, and we remain a bit unsure about how to treat casual mentions of personality disorders on the boards.

One of our yardsticks when considering things like this is whether the sentiment is a generalisation or not. So a post implying that everyone with AS is 'dead behind the eyes' would obviously go.

MNHQ

RowanMumsnet · 06/11/2013 18:11

@frizzcat

Polter was that troll thread the one about the child with ADHD? I do hope that was a troll Sad

Not sure what thread this was, but if you give us some clues we'll try to find out for you what happened.

@frizzcat

MNHQ - just out of interest and I'm not asking in a goading way at all. Your team must have someone heading up this campaign or even a team of people right? Have any of those people spent time with a parent and child with a disability. The reason I ask is because I think it's very hard to understand and see the world through our eyes and I don't blame you for that, as I had no clue before I had ds but now I'm in this world and I have a whole different outlook.

We do have a campaigns team who work on TIMC (along with our other campaigns). We also have staff members at MNHQ who have children with additional needs (unsurprising really when you think about it!).

It's an interesting idea though - thanks. We will have a think about it.

@frizzcat

Also there are some high profile people facing the same crap we are - could you not use them or ask them to help and lend a voice? One that springs to mind is the lady who plays Bridget Jones blonde sweary friend - I saw I a quick fire interview with her in a magazine and she mentioned that her eldest child was born with DS and she spent much of her time being a shouty mother at schools, LA etc - when she'd imagined being a latte mum.

We did have (what we thought was) a rather brilliant webchat with the author David Mitchell about his experience of being a dad to a son with autism - but we're always up for more suggestions along these lines. We'll have a look into this one.

MNHQ

RowanMumsnet · 06/11/2013 18:12

Thanks all

We'd honestly be interested to hear what you think about the examples we've given of reports we've had about language.

I've got to go out now so won't be posting much for the rest of the evening, but please do keep adding your thoughts and we will check back in and respond.

MNHQ

RowanMumsnet · 07/11/2013 16:42

Hello again - sorry to take ages to respond, it's been a bit busy today on reports.

Thanks for your input on the post about the DH with AS. We do hear those of you who still think this post is disablist.

This is one of those cases, though, where we think we're going to have to stick to our guns and say that we disagree with you. One of the things that makes Mumsnet the place it is is that we give people a space to express personal frustrations, disappointments and conflicts (as well as joys and pleasures). And we think that allowing people to express their own perceptions of their own personal experiences is really fundamental to this.

To put it another way: we don't think we can justify a situation in which a poster whose husband doesn't have AS is free to say that they feel he is sometimes 'dead behind the eyes', but a poster whose husband does have AS is not free to say that.

We do think there's a fairly clear difference between what the poster said, and saying 'people with AS can often seem to be dead behind the eyes' - which is clearly a disablist generalisation, and thus deletable.

That said, we do take the points you've made about the damage that can be caused by the reinforcement of negative stereotypes, and we will do our best to be vigilant about this and to make sure it comes in to our consideration of posts that have been reported for being disablist.

@PolterGoose

really in those circumstances it would be helpful if MNHQ automatically posted, reminding people of disablism as well as highlighting TIMC. An 'Ahem' plus a link to TIMC isn't really enough IMHO, there needs to be some substance to MNHQ's comments as most people who hold and express disablist views won't click a link but might listen to an MNHQer posting on a thread.

Fair point PolterGoose and we'll try to make sure that this happens a bit more

@PolterGoose

And, if there are MNHQ staff with kids with disabilities why aren't they joining in on the SN boards openly? Other staff take part in threads on other boards, why not here?

As others have said, we don't think it's fair really to ask any individual person at MNHQ to 'out' themselves in this way. We have MNHQ staff members who are (for example) single parents, expectant parents to twins, or who self-identify as LGBT, and they may occasionally post in the related topic areas, but we don't ask anyone at MNHQ to 'represent' anything beyond their own job responsibilities and the organisation itself - we think it would be a bit unfair and intrusive.

MNHQ

RowanMumsnet · 07/11/2013 17:02

@zzzzz

This is what I think about "speckle". It is offensive because it devalues the term "special" in SN. In the same way as when we say "luff" instead of "love", it trivialises the concept. It is meant to.

OK - thanks for explaining.

While we understand what you're saying about devaluing/trivialising, we're not sure we agree with you when you say that this is what this sort of informal use of words is intended to do. (Indeed, we often get into murky waters when we try to base decisions on what we think posters' intentions were, as opposed to what we can plainly see that they've said or not said.) We think that sometimes, this sort of informality can be a way of coping with an unfamiliar or challenging situation.

MNHQ

RowanMumsnet · 07/11/2013 17:05

@TheLeastAccomplishedBennetGirl

There could be a lot of mileage in using the hashtag and campaign on the local boards too.

There is the 'family friendly' status that businesses and services are given by MN, so something similar might be appropriate if extended to include families with additional needs?

When the new local boards were launched I did question with MNHQ why there wasn't a SN category, and was advised it would be looked at - maybe it's time?

Thanks for this, these are interesting ideas and we'll have a think.

Re. Mumsnet Local: our priority at the moment is to get loads of MNers using their local boards and realising what a great resource they can be. With that in mind we've consciously tried to keep Talk categories to a minimum in Local for now, so that it doesn't seem overwhelming to people who are getting used to it. But we'd definitely be interested in introducing more topics once the sites are lovely and busy.

MNHQ

RowanMumsnet · 07/11/2013 17:07

Thanks also for all the other ideas about possible ways forward for the campaign - please keep them coming.

I have to shoot off again now but we will be checking in again tomorrow

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