Proposed Statement - can they say this?

[Sahkoora]

Just reading through DS's proposed statement and noticed something I wanted to check. I have a brilliant advocate who is going to go through it all with me next week and make sure everything is suitable and above board, but this struck me as odd:

"lf DS has been aggressive, he must always apologise and accept his consequence. At times if he is sent home from school, that he experiences this as an unpleasant event and not one which he would wish to repeat."

Surely they are talking about illegal exclusion here? DS has been frequently sent home from school, but they usually make a pretense that he is ill before they ask me to come and get him.

what? they put that into the proposed statement?

Oh dear. That doesn't bode well for the rest of it, does it.

Or you could phrase it as our EP put it

"Exclusions should be avoided because the ds1 will perceive it as a reward"

(or words to that effect because I'm too lazy to go and get a copy of the statement).

She was right too!

Asking ds1 for an apology and implementing a sanction immediately after / during an incident is a guaranteed way of inducing a meltdown of epic proportions.

It did not matter that ds1 was expected to do work and not allowed to watch TV or play on his computer during exclusions it was still a reward because he was away from all his pesky, annoying classmates and the noise they made. Perhaps I should have played loud music and poked him continuously at home so it was a "unpleasant experience".

That's it. It puts all the onus on me then, and I thought this was supposed to be about school making changes to accommodate his needs.

Getting that changed then for sure.

Sahkoora - Really get this proposed statement looked at if you can afford it by a professional. Most solicitors do a healthcheck service.
you only get 8 weeks to appeal from final.

i listed all my feedback comments to LA, they took it to panel one person and refused all feedback comments.
I'm currently appealing but my solicitor found a whole raft of errors that i had never picked up.

And in which part of the proposed statement doc was that badly worded piece of shite placed?.

What do Parts 2 and 3 read like to you?. Is it all "access to" and "may require" type stuff, is any of it actually quantified and specified?. If not, it needs rejecting on that basis as well. These two parts are the most important parts of the statement doc so they need to be right.

I've only read this particular segment from the statement document but it certainly does not bode at all well for the rest of it. You may well now be looking at a SEND Tribunal situation to really sort it out properly.

That's just ridiculous and should be forwarded to SOSSEN to add to their list of stupid things that appear in children's statements.

Not just illegal exclusion but, - blimey, I don't even know where to start with a sentence like that. Is it even a sentence?

SO, they want to put in his statement that firstly any aggressive outbursts are his fault rather than him having his disability mismanaged, and he should take the blame, and then apologise, and then have a consequence for (very likely) the outcome of his disability and unmet need, and then he will be sent home to receive some additional punishment from you!?

Yep, - may as well put that as the ONLY thing in part 3 as it kind of negates everything else, blames the child for his difficulties and makes it the mother's duty to resolve.

'lf DS has been aggressive, he must always apologise and accept his consequence'

And, this is all about him. A statement isn't about what the child should do, it is about what the setting needs to do.

Goodness me. What report was this from? I would ask to see the original as I expect it was the school and if so, I'd be looking for another.

Bizarre. Just at the beginning of this process for my DS, but it's a statement of needs, no? Not demands!

If they feel DS has difficulty in understanding the impact of his outbursts (as is the case for my DS who is 7!) the statement should indicate a need for work on emotional and social skills to get him there.

And agree with pp - I pray nobody starts excluding DS because I could lock him in a darkened room all day and he'd still think it was an improvement ongoing to school. If he had a working understanding of cause and effect anyway which he doesn't.

Glad you have an advocate

Sorry. I keep having to post because I can't quite believe that sentence is true.....

In what way, does the provision in that sentence outline the need for resources over and above what a school should normally apply?

I would ask them to clarify in writing (so they see how ridiculous it is)what they mean by ensuring ds has an unpleasant event at home, how do they define an unpleasant event, what need this unpleasant event will meet and importantly, who will carry it out and how, and finally what resources they will put in place to enable this unpleasant event to occur in his home and whether they would be contributing towards your bills and wear and tear by making it an educational setting in your absence.

I am deeply concerned by a LA or school that feel your ds should experience 'unpleasant events' tbh.

sorry. Finding it more and more shocking by the moment.

I am in serious trouble with this LA, aren't I. Now wonder I keep hearing about ASD kids being excluded in this area, or that they all think it's perfectly fine to exclude my 5 yr old DS and send him to a PRU.

Anyone want to see the full doc? I can email it to you pdf if you want to PM me your email.

What LA thinks that this is appropriate?

Oh,and don't go along with the school pretending that he is ill so that you go and collect him. I had that one tried on me once - never again .
If they try this again ask for clarification in writing of the purpose he is being sent home for. They usually stop illegal activity if they know you're onto them and will have written evidence against them.

'at times,if he is sent home from school' - they don't even use the word exclude.
Absolutely diabolical - sorry, but like Star I keep thinking just how ridiculous this is.

Of all the snippets of Statements MNSNers have posted on this board, I think this must rank as one of the worst snippets I've seen!

What does Part 2 say? My solicitor says that a Statement should read a bit like a medical diagnosis and then with "prescriptions" to those specific diagnoses. Part 2 should have all the diagnoses, then part 3 has to read as a "prescription" to each one of those dx. So for everything in part 2, it should be addressed by something in part 3.

So where in Part 2 is the diagnosis for this appalling prescription?

That's a good analogy, thanks Towie. Looking at it that way, I can already see that Part 2 says:

He is rarely willing to undertake an adult led task and even "first/then" approaches have had little success, although he can be persuaded to undertake adult-directed tasks if he thinks it his own idea.

and then in Part 3:

Access to a quiet, contained area if he is having a tantrum where he will stay until calm. once calm, the "first/then" approach will be used again;

Wow!
I have an ABA statement. I will PM you and if you send me an email I will send you a copy. I would add lots of behavioural requirements (loads of egs in our statement) into the statement eg about school training (eg Team Teach), supervision of behavioural strategies used in school by eg ASD or behaviour outreach team, about an autism specific behaviour plan being devised by team (eg school, CAMHS, you, outreach) and reviewed regularly. And probably something about school recording every incident of aggression to people or property or self harm so behaviour can be tracked. That way if incidents don't reduce you will have evidence more specialist support is needed (and will be harder for the school to pretend is ill)
Treat this as an open opportunity to go right back at them with what their responsibilities are and get lots of behaviour targets and support into the statement
Also make sure in Part 2 that it records challenging behaviour as a need. Challenging behaviour is a key way of getting specialist support in future so its actually good its being recognised.
When we were trying to get ABA the LA refused to admit DS had challenging behaviour or mention behaviour at all. In the end we settled on 'maladaptive' behaviour on the day of the tribunal but only because the nursery worker came to tribunal and told them about DS tantrums etc and the LA couldn't really then refuse. They knew the phrase 'challenging behaviour' = more expensive support.
It may not seem it but the fact they are mentioning behaviour does help
But oneineight's phrase is perfect. Love it!
If they say he's ill tell them unfortunately you are 2 hours away but they have your permission to take him to the GP / hospital and you will meet them there when you can

I'm appalled. I would demand that the person who wrote these bullying, forceful, disciplinarian strategies in the report that informed the wording in the statement, be removed from having anything to do with my child and sent for some training.