education welfare will i risk a problem here ?

[thriftychic]

having a lot of issues with school at the moment ,started a thread the other day .
basically they want to put ds2 in an internal exclusion in their isolation / behaviour room and he wont / cant go to it .
he has asd. he did one day and wont do any more . i am not trying to force him to go anymore its causing alot of stress.
school wont budge on it so we are now stuck at home . i have asked for a meeting . they have said they will send his work home for now .
ds2 is going downhill with it all , he is saying that he isnt going but hes saying hes a psycopath for messing everything up for me and other horrible things about himself. its not helping that hes getting crazy with staying in the house so i want to get him out tomorrow.
but, what happens if we get stopped ? will i be in trouble then for him not being in school ?

Is your GP sympathetic? I think you could reasonably get him signed off on the basis of severe anxiety and stress.

contact the ewo for the school and explain to them what's happening and your ds will be going out during school hours as it's affecting his mental health, that way you should be covered

When we withdrew ds2 from school we copied in the letter to absolutely everyone we could think of including the exclusions team and the EWO to cover our backs. We received no comeback. The EWO should actually be helping you get support for your son - her job is to prevent this kind of thing. Ask for her help. I forget as to whether your son is statemented - if he is then the SEN team at the LEA is another source of help. If not then ask for statementing. Do you want your son to continue at this school with support or do you want a different school?
We tried the GP route but he was unwilling as he thought we would lose what support we had for ds2 if we opted out.

When ds was 'school refusing', we still went out (when I could get him to leave the house) I totally encouraged him to leave the house with me.

Ds wasn't signed off sick at that time, just refusing to go to school. Your ds is refusing to go to school, not leave the house!

Hold on, is school refusing to let your ds attend until he agrees to go into the unit?

hi ,
yes they are refusing to let him attend his normal lessons until he has done his 2nd day internal exclusion
thanks for all the advice

Exclusions CANNOT be indefinite and shouldn't really be used for pupils with SEN, as its discrimination. Im sure the EWO would be very interested to hear about this indefinite exclusion.

Alternatively, you could remind them of their responsibility for providing full time education off site from the sixth day of any fixed period exclusion.

Department for Education (a few quotes c&p, you might want to quote at them.

• Schools should have a strategy for reintegrating pupils that return to school following a fixed period exclusion, and for managing their future behaviour.

• All children have a right to an education. Schools should take reasonable steps to set and mark work for pupils during the first five school days of an exclusion, and alternative provision must be arranged from the sixth day. There are obvious benefits in arranging alternative provision to begin as soon as possible after an exclusion

Under the Equality Act 2010 (“the Equality Act”) schools must not discriminate against, harass or victimise pupils because of their: sex; race; disability; religion or belief; sexual orientation; because of a pregnancy / maternity; or because of a gender reassignment. For disabled children, this includes a duty to make reasonable adjustments to policies and practices.

It is unlawful to exclude or to increase the severity of an exclusion for a non-disciplinary reason.

Whilst an exclusion may still be an appropriate sanction, head teachers should take account of any contributing factors that are identified after an incident of poor behaviour has occurred. For example, where it comes to light that a pupil has suffered bereavement, has mental health issues or has been subject to bullying.

As well as having disproportionately high rates of exclusion, there are certain groups of pupils with additional needs who are particularly vulnerable to the impacts of exclusion. This includes pupils with statements of special educational needs (SEN) and looked after children. Head teachers should, as far as possible, avoid excluding permanently any pupil with a statement of SEN or a looked after child.

Schools should engage proactively with parents in supporting the behaviour of pupils with additional needs. In relation to looked after children, schools should co-operate proactively with foster carers or children’s home workers and the local authority that looks after the child.

Where a school has concerns about the behaviour, or risk of exclusion, of a child with additional needs, a pupil with a statement of SEN or a looked after child it should, in partnership with others (including the local authority as necessary), consider what additional support or alternative placement may be required. This should involve assessing the suitability of provision for a pupil’s SEN. Where a pupil has a statement of SEN, schools should consider requesting an early annual review or interim / emergency review.

wow thanks claw

i think we are an unusual case (well school made out like this hasnt happened before) in that the exclusion given is 2 days but because ds2 wont / cant attend hes kind of excluding himself now .

its not school refusal (well we had that already) its now internal exclusion refusal
i had requested a meeting , they informed me today that they could arrange a meeting for myself and Mr W . Mr W ? hes had nothing to do with this i dont even know what he looks like. Mr N who has caused all the grief has tried to avoid me right from the beginning maybe because i have become quite assertive

so , i am thinking that tomorrow i should ring up the education welfare people then

Give IPSEA or SENSOS a ring first and find out exactly where you stand legally.

Once you know exactly your legal rights, quote IPSEA info etc at them and keep for back up if needed with EWO.

School are expected to fair, reasonable and logical, and make 'reasonable adjustments' for children with SEN, mental health issues etc, doesn't sound like they are. They have ignored CAMHS recommendation. They have ignored your offer of ds doing the 2nd day at home.

He isn't excluding himself, he will go to school, just not the unit!

Im assuming your ds has emotional or behaviour difficulties and he has been excluded as a result of his needs not being met/understood/ignored. Then excluded further for the same reason

found this <a class="break-all" href="http://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/20130401151715/www.education.gov.uk/publications/eOrderingDownload/DCSF-00055-2010.pdf" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/20130401151715/www.education.gov.uk/publications/eOrderingDownload/DCSF-00055-2010.pdf

Apparently 'internal exclusion' is not a legal exclusion so exclusions legislation and the department’s guidance on exclusion from school does not apply.

However, you have been told to keep your ds at home until he agrees to attend internal exclusion, so I would say its turned into school excluding him. But im not an expert, give Ipsea etc a ring for some proper legal advice.

I would look at it as your ds is 'school refusing' and not 'internal exclusion' refusing.

For example my ds started to refuse school on PE days, he was school refusing, not PE refusing. PE was just the cause of his refusal.

So if your ds is 'school refusing' and has SEN's and you know the cause, the school should be doing all they can to help.

Found this on SNAP site.

"My child refuses to go to school. What can I do?
(Refusal to Attend)

School refusal is when a child does not want to go to school or refuses to attend.

The cause needs to be identified and the issues resolved by working with the child and the school. School refusal can be more common at times of transition.

Parents are legally required to make sure their child receives full-time education until the end of Year 11. If your child is not attending school you may be contacted by the Education Welfare Service.

They should be able to help and support you, but sometimes they may seem more focused on the penalties and consequences to you if a child continues to refuse to go to school. Speak to the school if your child has problems attending.

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Why might my child not want to go to school?
(Refusal to Attend)

The following questions might help you get a better idea of what the problem could be.

Has the child been spoken to and encouraged to express how they feel and what their worries are?
Does the child have a specific fear or anxiety?
Is the child concerned about their progress in a particular area?
Is the child suffering from a lack of confidence and/or low self-esteem?
Have there been any significant life changes which could be affecting the child?
Is the child socialising with others and forming friendships?
Is the child a victim of bullying?
Does the child have a disability – obvious or hidden?
Could the child have physical illness?

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What steps can I take to encourage my child to attend school?
(Refusal to Attend)

Here are some tips that may help.

Have you spoken to your child about why they don't want to go to school?
Has the school been approached to discuss the situation? Remember to keep them fully informed of any difficulties as they arise as it is your responsibility to ensure your child attends.
Can the school suggest and implement some strategies to help the child back into school?
Has the Education Welfare Officer (EWO) been informed of the situation?
Does the school feel that a referral to the Educational Psychologist (EP) is appropriate?
Could there be a need for specialist help? If so the school or GP can make a referral to the Child and Adolescent Mental Health Services (CAMHS) in their area.
If the child has a social worker, has the issue been raised with them?

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Can the school help if my child refuses to attend?
(Refusal to Attend)

If a child is still refusing to go to school and has special needs, the school should be doing all they can to help.

One of the things the school can do is to offer what's called "alternative provision". So, instead of having to go back to school and continue with what obviously wasn’t appropriate, the school can put together a different package of learning, for example, some areas can now offer e-learning - where children can learn via the computer at home. Or a young person could do some extended work placements or go to college part of the week.

There are quite a lot of children and young people who reach their teens for whom school is just not working, and that's why alternative provision has been introduced. Ask the school about it, and if they are not helpful, you can ring the Local Authority and ask for the person who co-ordinates alternative provision. SNAP Cymru can also be contacted for help and advice.

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Are there any support services that can help?
(Refusal to Attend)

A referral to CAMHS - the Child and Adolescent Mental Health Services can also be made from your GP to see if the child or young person would benefit from some counselling or support from them.

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thankyou youre brill claw just going to re read all that now and formulate a plan !

are you okay to sit tight with him at home for now OP? When my ds was out of school (school refusal) it was difficult at first because of work but it seems that you've already been through that.

I think you're right to keep him off till it's properly sorted as forcing him in will most likely snowball into other problems attending.

I agree with claw that the school are acting outside the equality act here - they have got to make reasonable adjustments for him by law.
Have you spoken to CAMHS since last time - do they know what's happening with school?

Thrifty, kids don't refuse to attend school for no reason. The bizarre thing is your ds has made it perfectly clear what the cause of his anxiety is and he has SEN and mental health difficulties.

They need to make reasonable adjustments to the policies. He did one day in the unit, which is fair enough, he struggled to do that. CAMHS recommended one day was enough, you did the same. It is obviously not appropriate for your ds as it is making him refuse to go.

Yet they are punishing him further, instead of helping. If school want to salvage what little of a relationship they have left with your ds, they should forget, move on and start discussing what they can do to help to ensure it doesn't happen again.

Go kick some arse! (in a reasonable and polite way of course!)

If they have said don't send him while he is refusing the internal exclusion, I suspect they have in fact, illegally excluded him.

thankyou , dont know what i'd do without you lot! , it really helps to have it confirmed that i am not getting it wrong here , that the school are actually being arses .

i am waiting for camhs to ring me again today , not spoken since their suggestion last week and i have just written an email asking the teacher to confirm what i was told on the phone . written down in a list it sounds awful , he must be uncomfortable confirming that but i bet he does .

yes , good point moaning , i have just been reading all the info and i think youre probably right

I would add that school are being crafty and tiptoeing around with words to avoid their legal responsibilities. 'internal exclusion refusing' and he is 'excluding himself' (so exclusions legislation doesn't apply) - NO he is refusing to attend school and the internal exclusion is the CAUSE of his anxiety. Anxiety is a difficult related to his needs.

School have excluded him further and indefinitely not on the basis of school behaviour policies, but on the basis of his refusal to attend school. This is not a legitimate reason to increase exclusion.

"It is unlawful to exclude or to increase the severity of an exclusion for a non-disciplinary reason" It is also unlawful to exclude indefinitely.

Ask school to put it in writing when your ds can return to school.

and good luck with such an unsympathetic school.

What are they going to do if he continues to refuse?

How long are they going to let this go on for?

The longer they let this go on for, the more difficult it will be to get him to return. The more anger and resentment he will have towards school.

Rather than helping his difficulties, they are adding to them and making a reoccurrence of the behaviour he was excluded for in the first place, much more likely to happen again.

Im getting annoyed on your behalf now!

Thanks Polter

Thrifty, seems school are having trouble knowing what to do and getting defensive. Seems like they need your help and maybe they wouldn't be so defensive, if you came at it from a different angle (I hate all the pussy footing around grown adults!)

However, how about approaching it from a 'you are very concerned that ds lashed out at a teacher and would like to do everything in your power to ensure it doesn't happen again. Your ds obviously needs help with managing his anger in a more constructive way' kinda thing.

Then list some strategies you think could help to diffuse future situations. Things you use at home already or things such as

When your ds gets to the point of wanting to lash out, he has a exit strategy. Something like being able to leave the class and go somewhere quiet, where he can scream and shout and punch pillows or sit quietly and read or something he finds calming or helpful.

or if he doesn't know that he is getting to that point, some way of teachers helping him to monitor his mood throughout the day, scale of 1 - 10, green, amber to red etc. Then if he indicates a 8 or 9 or an amber he can be given some time out, before he gets to 10 or red and wanting to lash out.

Then you would be happy for him to return, once some strategies are in place to avoid situations escalating in future.

Once school start to see how often he gets to 8 or 9 or amber throughout the day, it can also be used to help identify areas of difficult too.

I have to go, busy weekend planned. Hope you get it sorted and best of luck.

Also add that you would really like to work with school to get this sorted. You were hoping that they would follow CAMHS recommendations, as rather than improving your ds's behaviour, it is having the opposite affect and he is missing out on his education and you are VERY concerned, blah, blah, blah.

I really must go!

thankyou claw and polter . I did indeed suggest that they give him a time out card or some other signal he can use to leave the classroom and that if they try talking to him about it it should be with someone he feels comfortable with in a setting he feels comfortable with i.e not the behaviour exclusion room.
i asked what they would do , how long they would wait and said exactly that , that i thought it would make him worse but all the twonk kept saying was ' i can only repeat that school expect him to do the exclusion blah blah' at one point he said 'i can only repeated ..' and i shouted PLEASE DONT REPEAT IVE HEARD YOU'