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Nobody believes me!!!! Feel undermined and overwhelmed

39 replies

Laceyshoes · 05/09/2013 14:43

So sorry, this must be the longest post ever. I just thought I should give some background before going into my rant.

My lovely just turned 3 year old son has obvious autism. His eye contact is sporadic, he answers to his name less than half of the time and he rarely looks at people when he speaks to them. Although he has enough vocabulary to label most things correctly, he cannot hold a conversation beyond answering the simplest of questions like "do you want some milk?". He will make statements about things, ie "daddy has gone to work" but you can't actually have any back and forth conversation with him, sorry if I'm being vague but I find it very hard to explain what it's like.

He uses the pronoun "you" about himself all the time, ie "you did a wee" when he means that he has done a wee. He doesn't understand concepts like "when" - for example (we're potty training him at the moment) he'll get off the potty, having done a wee and I'll say to him that when he needs a poo, he must get on the potty. And he'll get back on the potty because he doesn't understand "when" or "if - he thinks I'm instructing him to go now.

He repeats things over and over again rather than saying them just once or he'll repeat what you say to him rather than actually answering. Or he'll parrot phrases he's remembered from the tv. If we are out with other people, he will say "hello! How are you? Hello! How are you? Hello! How are you?" over and over again, directed at the room in general but he won't answer people if they speak to him directly. Or he will just babble incoherently.

He also flaps his hands when he's excited. He often walks on his tiptoes. And he doesn't realise when his dad and I are telling him off. He doesn't respond or he laughs, even if we are shouting at him (I know it's awful that we ever do shout at him). We will tell him over and over to stop doing something but he won't stop, even if he's being screamed at. He just thinks it's a game. Basically, he can't tell if someone's angry with him. And he can't tell if someone's sad. If he sees someone crying, he doesn't realise they're upset. To give an example, I've been crying my eyes out this morning through frustration and worry and he looked at me and said "mummy is happy." I said "no, mummy is very sad" but it meant nothing, he just kept smiling and carried on playing.

He doesn't show much interest in other children, even his cousins who are of a very similar age. He never asks "why" questions like other children his age do.

I know all of this sounds very minor compared with children who have sensory issues, meltdowns, strong need for routine etc but his development is not typical. He does not relate to people the way that most children his age do, regardless of level of vocabulary. It is so hard to explain what I mean! To put my finger on exactly what it is that is so "off" about his interaction.

Anyway, he was referred to a speech therapist at his two year review as some of his pronunciation was behind where it should be. He saw her a few weeks ago and she said there were no concerns about his speech at all (his pronunciation improved greatly while we were on the waiting list for his appointment) but that some of his interaction was atypical and that she recommended that he was seen by a paediatrician so he could be assessed further. And after he started preschool a few weeks before the end of summer term, his key worker mentioned to me that there were some issues with his interaction and eye contact although as it was at pick up time, she didn't have time to go into further detail - anyway she's asked to meet with me when he goes back next week, so hopefully she'll be able to explain more then.

Anyway, he's seen a paediatrician a couple of weeks ago and she said that we are at the information gathering stage. That as he doesn't have any instant red flag symptoms like total absence of eye contact or sensory issues or long lasting tantrums, she can't either diagnose or rule out an autism spectrum disorder at this stage.

I feel very reassured by the fact that DS's key worker and the speech therapist could apparently both see what is so blindingly obvious to me because NOBODY else - not DH or any of my or his families - can see that there is anything amiss with DS's development. It is so frustrating to be told that he is fine, he's just like all the other kids and that I'm imagining things. DH even came to the paediatrician appointment where she recommended further assessment but he is still insisting that DS's interaction is completely typical - it bloody isnt!!! DS is completely unable to interact with other children and he is not "fine with adults" as DH says, he still doesn't make eye contact 80% of the time, he displays very little joint attention and he cannot respond to conversation.

Yesterday, DH's nieces age 6 and 4 came over with their brother who's nearly 3. DS has known them his entire life and sees them frequently yet he could still barely look at them and couldn't speak to them at all. He played on his own even though his bigger girl cousins were trying to get him to interact with him. He's actually very fond of the 4 year old and when she sat down next to him on the sofa, he gave her a cuddle (although not looking at her or speaking to her). Anyway, the 6 year old started saying things like "why does he never give ME hugs?" She has a tendency to say slightly mean things about DS, drawing attention to his differences in a "why's he being so weird?" kind of way. So I said to her that DS finds some things, like talking and playing with other children, very difficult and that it's important to be patient and kind to him because of this (and that I know that she always is).

After they'd gone, DH had a go at me for saying this as he thought it was wrong to tell his niece that DS was different in any way as it sounded like I was saying he was inferior and that his niece would pick up on it in the wrong way and think less of DS. I tried to say that I thought I was doing the right thing by telling her that people need to make allowances for DS finding socialising hard, so she'd hopefully be a little more understanding towards him and perhaps not make so many "why's he doing that?" type comments.

Mentioned it to my mum today and she said that she agrees with DH, that I was wrong to say anything referring to DS's difficulties (that she thinks I'm imagining anyway) to this child and that I should have just told her to "be nice". And that any issues DS may have will be so minor that they won't hold him back in any meaningful way.

Anyway, I just feel so sad for DS and scared for him, more for what the future may hold than for how things are now especially. And frustrated and angry that nobody else who is close to DS can see what is so fucking obvious - that he's a little boy who has major difficulties with communication and interaction and that this IS a big deal. And I feel totally out of my depth, I don't know what to do to help DS. I honestly feel completely lost and scared and also alone and undermined because of DH's and everyone else's denial.

Has anyone else been in a similar situation? How do you cope with everyone telling you it's nothing when you KNOW it's not?!

Apologies again for the post length

OP posts:
KOKOagainandagain · 05/09/2013 15:17

Breathe! You are obviously concerned.

Tbh there is nothing in what you recount that screams 'obvious autism' to me - especially as you seem to have quite high expectations from such a young child.

I also have to say that I am concerned that your example of in attention is not noticing that he does not notice/respond 'appropriately' to being 'screamed' at - what the hell are you doing screaming at or allowing others to scream at a young child - let alone one you believe to be obviously autistic.

zumbaleena · 05/09/2013 15:22

Get him checked. Push thru NHs or if u can afford....just go private.

pongping · 05/09/2013 15:33

KeepOn that's a bit harsh - OP is obviously finding all this very distressing and is finding it difficult to cope. She knows it's not ideal. It's really stressful to think there is something atypical about your child's development if family members don't see it.

Lacey, your DS sounds so much like mine. He's nearly three and has been assessed by a paed who said no immediate red flags, but that now he's in nursery, we will be able to gather more information.

I'm concerned that pushing at this point will make me seem too worried and that I'm pushing for something that isn't there, so I've backed off. I've made nursery aware so they can assess his development, but I'm equally ready to accept that I might be wrong - after all, he's my first and I only have a small pool of peers to compare him to.

Laceyshoes · 05/09/2013 15:57

I also have to say that I am concerned that your example of in attention is not noticing that he does not notice/respond 'appropriately' to being 'screamed' at - what the hell are you doing screaming at or allowing others to scream at a young child - let alone one you believe to be obviously autistic.

Thank you for kicking me when I'm already down. That's massively helpful :)

I do not regularly scream at my child. When I have done, it's been on very rare occasions and when I've been extremely frustrated. And I did not use the word "appropriately" in relation to his response to it so I'm not sure why you put it in inverted commas in your reply to me.

I'm well aware that I'm far from perfect and am not the mother that my son deserves. I still love him beyond words and try to do my very best for him.

zumbaleena thank you, the NHS are actually being brilliant about assessing DS at the moment. I'm very grateful for that.

pongping sorry to hear you're worried about your son, I hope that you are a neurotic mum and I mean that in the nicest possible way! I know exactly what you mean about not wanting your anxiety to come across too much. It's hard isnt it, wanting your concerns to be taken seriously yet worrying that it makes it look like you actually want something to be wrong!! Do your partner and family share your concerns btw? Or is it just you who think something may be amiss?

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PolterGoose · 05/09/2013 16:07

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Kleinzeit · 05/09/2013 16:07

You know, it actually sounds as if your mother is starting to come round to your point of view. Very interesting remark that ?any issues he does have will be minor? so she is kind of adjusting to the idea that he might have some issues after all. It all takes time but progress is being made in the right direction. Have faith! You DH?s reaction is very normal which is no comfort but it means he?ll come round in the end.

The thing is, your DS is very young, there?s a wide range of whacky behaviour in toddlers, and your DS isn?t showing the most obvious red flags. It?s obvious to you but it isn?t obvious to everyone else ? at least not yet. But even so, some of the professionals have flagged up concerns and they are investigating. That?s good! I have a friend who was totally fobbed off until her DS started primary school, and she just had to wait until the reception teacher called her in ? which she did after a couple of weeks. So you?re doing very well.

To be honest the 6yo sounds jealous of the attention your DS was giving her little sister. Try telling her something nice she can do for DS, like pushing him on the swing or just giving him a biscuit. And maybe get her to do something else to distract her attention.

My experience was very different from yours ? obvious atrocious behaviour like a bolt from the blue when DS started school, we had no idea there was a problem before. But the thing we have in common is how very long it all takes. With your support your DS will get the understanding and the help he needs in the end, honest!
Flowers

KOKOagainandagain · 05/09/2013 16:32

Sorry if you think I am being harsh - I don't mean to kick you when you are down (we have all been there) but I might kick you up the butt Smile

DS1 was not diagnosed until nearly 12 and so I wash awash in disbelief from multiple sources. He is now in OCC indi ss aged nearly 13. See the disparity?

Tbh I am still waiting for a genuinely reciprocal conversation from DS1 now! With the turn-taking and ToM in conversation I would only become concerned if the child were older. This does not mean that other concerns are not genuine.

Treat your child, regardless of diagnosis, 'as if' they were autistic. At times it is hard but this includes not shouting, screaming or crying (and expecting them to modify their behaviour or empathise). We don't always be the 'ideal' parent but we try to be the best we can. I am sure that you do too. Smile

The other, practical advice is, as usual spot on.

2boysnamedR · 05/09/2013 17:28

My situation again is a bit different. I have had everyone including the kitchen sink tell me my ds was 'normal' now he has a dx most people still he will be fine, grow out of it. I try to smile, nod then boil inside. But my dh has always been on board so that must be very very hard. My son never did they 'why?' Questions EVER, until one day he asked 'if the world is spinning why don't we all fly off?' So maybe he has thinking 'why?' But not vocalising it? Maybe your son is thinking more than he saying. Follow your gut feeling - no one knows him better than you

pongping · 05/09/2013 18:45

DH thinks I am imagining things, but my dad (who absolutely adores DS), thinks something is amiss.

AgnesDiPesto · 05/09/2013 19:05

Paediatricians are not always very expert in autism (think of them as a GP for children). An assessment for autism should be a multi disciplinary team. Is the paed planning to gather more evidence eg from nursery, SALT, Ed Psych, Clinical Psych??? Look up the guidance on diagnosis on NICE website which sets out what the standards for diagnostic assessment are. Also google MCHAT and score it.

Hanen books can be a good place to start in terms of what you can do to help e.g. More than Words. Using autism strategies don't do any harm to children who turn out not to have autism.

cansu · 05/09/2013 19:15

I really empathise with the comments from your ds cousins. I have recently had this with my niece who makes lots of the 'why does she make those noises? type comments about my dd. I have been thinking about getting a book for her to explain why she needs to be kind. I think the problem is that no one has actually picked her up on it. Anyway I think you were right to say what you did.

yellowballoons · 05/09/2013 19:42

Does he cope ok with a change in cricumstances or surroundings?

Laceyshoes · 05/09/2013 20:57

Thanks for all the advice and supportive comments, am so glad to know I'm not the only one who's felt like this although obviously wish none of us had to go through any of it in the first place. It does make me feel less alone and desperate though Thanks

2boys I can't believe people are still trying to minimise your son's issues even after he's had a diagnosis. That's so odd, maybe they think for some reason that they're telling you what you want to hear. How frustrating for you though.

Agnes a health visitor is coming to see DS in two weeks time to see if she feels that there are any issues of concern. And we've been given a questionnaire to pass on to the preschool, that has lots of detailed questions about their observations of DS's communication and interaction. After that, I think the next step (if it was felt that further evaluation was appropriate) would be for DS to come to a local assessment centre for one morning every week for a month, where he'd be closely observed and then, I guess, he'd either be diagnosed or discharged. Or maybe we'd be told to wait and see how he is in a year or two's time, I'm not really sure. Am going to get Hanen More Than Words as soon as the next child benefit payment comes through! I'm desperate to help him with his communication but feel so clueless and out of my depth right now.

Thanks for saying that cansu, I thought I was doing the right thing in trying to explain things to DN. Surely that's better than ignoring the comments or following my mum's helpful suggestion to tell her to "be nice". You can't really say things like that to other people's children anyway! Your idea of getting a book for your DN sounds like a good one. Have you tried speaking to her parents about her comments about your DD? It must be really hard to hear them and not feel you can say anything to her.

yellow DS is very calm, he doesn't have any sensory issues or insistence on routine, he copes fine with changes in surroundings. It's just his communication and interaction that's (very) atypical.

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ilikemysleep · 05/09/2013 23:26

Lacey he sounds very like my ds, very similar indeed. My ds is now 11 and has just started grammar school. His communication....his motivation to communicate...is still very atypical. I knew he was autistic from age 3, but it took my dh until his 9th birthday to come round to the idea that he wasn't 'fine' and wouldn't be 'growing out of it'. Ds was diagnosed 6 months later.
My ds is delightful. He is kind and has a great sense of humour. He enjoys word play and conversation rituals and ridiculousness. He has selective mutism to adults outside immediate family...I in part blame mil for this, she insisted he was just rude and used to get very angry with him for not responding, and I think it triggered severe anxiety.
The thing is, the denial path is one many of us have walked. I just 'acted as if' ds were autistic from him being 3 ish and although they were lonely years, ds did well academically at school and has always managed a small friendship group. He has never been very rigid either and I thank my lucky stars about that, his issues of flexible thinking are more around conversation repair and situational problem solving. Dh who denied that a label would make any difference at all mow has a MUCH better relationship with him. I do think the diagnosis has saved my marriage, dh was so very far from understanding ds before I would have had to leave for ds'sake before too much more time had passed.
Wishing you all the best. Try to get dh to come to appointments etc so he can hear that the concerns don't all come from you.

Levantine · 06/09/2013 17:06

Nothing to add but just to echo ilikemysleep's advice that your DH goes to appointments with you. It made a massive difference to us.

Laceyshoes · 06/09/2013 21:45

ilikemysleep thanks for your post and apologies for the delay in replying, have been out most of today. Your son sounds absolutely gorgeous! I'm so glad to hear that he's got a few good friends. It must make a hell of a difference to his school experience and his self esteem. The thing that petrifies me most about my DS's situation is the thought of him always being lonely and an outsider :(

Your DS does sound like mine actually - my boy is a very sweet natured, easy going little soul and has got a lively sense of humour. I know it's early to tell but I think he's going to to grow up to be a kind hearted, loveable individual regardless of anything else that may be going on. Glad to hear that your DH has accepted the reality of your DS's issues now, even if its taken 6 years for him to get there. It must mean so much to be able to talk to him honestly about your DS at last.

levantine yes DH has said that he wants to come to any appointments that he can, although I think it's because he wants to be able to tell the assessor that I'm just making it all up and that DS's communication is completely normal...

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goldenretriever · 06/09/2013 22:27

Frankly, his behaviour is exactly like sons who was diagnosed with ASD at 4yo last month. Things pushed forward for me when a SENCO saw him at nursery. Good luck x

sophj100 · 06/09/2013 22:51

Laceyshoes - feeling great empathy for you at the moment and I know just how frustrating and exhausting it is to feel you are going mad and that no-one sees, what you see. Be assured, there is help out there, it can be a while coming but all you can do is remain strong and be forceful in getting the 'professionals' to listen to you. You know your child better than anyone, so trust in your instincts.

Your description of your child is exactly as I experienced with both my boys and I was desperate to be believed that it wasn't just me being irrational or over-emotional.

In my experience, it felt such a slow process and now I think they wanted them to grow a bit more before they made any diagnosis, to see how they would develop. I pushed for assessment by SALT, (had a hearing test done, just to rule it out as a cause for speech delay) and then a further referral to a Developmental Paediatrician. All the time being surrounded by people telling me that 'he's very young' or 'they all develop at their own pace' and not to worry. My instincts were enough to make me push for people to see, what I saw. They now do and as much as one would dream for our children not to have any problems in life, having your concerns acknowledged allows you to at least move forward.

There is a lot of support out there for you, including on this site as many of us have been in similar situations, so do not feel you are alone.

Let us know how things go or just come back and vent - whatever helps. Smile

CFSKate · 07/09/2013 17:19

I don't have any knowledge of this, so nothing really helpful to add, but it strikes me that one person does believe you, the girl cousin. She "draws attention to his differences". So that is the opposite of trying to minimise his issues.

goonIcantakeit · 09/09/2013 21:15

Much sympathy xx.

Re your DH and DM - DH and I found the Hanen books, especially It Takes Two to Talk, to be a great source of common ground.

I think you would find it really helpful to build up your expertise about what skills he needs to develop in what order. You'll be much less frustrated if you really work on your own techniques. Like any major project, it's satisfying if you do things in the right order, otherwise it's twice as hard.

And some of those things he says that really make you feel bad - ("mummy is happy") - they tend to come from well-meaning folk trying to teach him at a level that's way beyond where he is right now. Once you take it back to the level where he really is, you can get good work done. He sounds as though it would be much better for you to say, "you're sad" (and nothing else) when you observe that he is sad. Then "you're angry" and "you're happy". Only when he starts applying those labels correctly to himself can he hope to recognise the feelings in other people. But there's no reason to think that can't come.

By the way, I'm no SALT but he does sounds as though he learns a concept (pronoun, emotion word) and only later splits the concept up. So right now he mixes up "you" and "I" and that's quite common i think. Also he seems to have mixed up Happy and Sad when he saw you cry - yet it appears he recognised your emotion and looked for an emotion-word..... so some of those things that are, as you say, signs of his atypical development for his age, are also, looked at another way, signs of what step he has reached on the path, and clues as to what the next step is.....

I'll link to an ancient post on receptive language (as you know you need to concentrate on this, not vocab) then shut up.....

Laceyshoes · 10/09/2013 23:00

Oops only just noticed the last 3 posts as I haven't been on here for a couple of days - sincere apologies for not acknowledging or thanking for them before Blush I'm so, so grateful to everyone who's taken the time to respond.

Your description of your child is exactly as I experienced with both my boys

So you've got two boys with the same issues soph? I'm 7 months pregnant with DS2 and am petrified of him having the same difficulties as his brother. Is it easier with your younger boy because your expectations have adjusted? And do you think having an older sibling has helped your DS2 to develop speech and social behaviour more easily than your DS1 did? Sorry for all the questions!

CFSkate yes children do see his differences and remark on them. It's very obvious to them that DS is different. I'm baffled as to why adults can't seem to see it. It's so strange.

Thanks goon, that makes a lot of sense. I will definitely start doing the "you're sad/you're happy/ angry" thing with him and I think maybe you're right that he was trying to comment on the sight of me crying but didn't know the right word. I downloaded an iPad app today which is meant to help children recognise and identify emotions by facial expressions. Unfortunately it was american and the pronunciation was probably a bit alien to DS, also it used the word "mad" instead of "angry" which could be confusing for him so not as helpful as I'd hoped it would be.

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goonIcantakeit · 11/09/2013 12:32

Lacey, be careful of apps.

The app may be great but as a parent you're most likely to do really effective work if you go for a naturalistic approach. You see him sad - you say "you're sad". It's all about improving your own techinques - after a while it becomes second nature - every incident turns into an opportunity to use very simple stripped-down communcation that matches the real-life situation.

If you show him pictures of faces, he is not actually experiencing the emotion himself, and he may end up labelling the faces by rote (using tricks such as eyebrow position) but still not recognising when a real person is sad - and that is the opposite of what you want, indeed it is what distresses you most.

I think you should get the It Takes Two to Talk book - it takes you through this subtle change and helps you get really good at it.

good luck!

goonIcantakeit · 11/09/2013 12:37

sorry, just to add, the other great approach that many on this board use is called "ABA" but it takes more training as a parent to get into it. The basic idea of ABA is that whenever we interact with people, we are training them, and we may not be training them to do what we think we are training them to do.
Example: elderly parent phones daughter and, as usual, complains bitterly that daughter never phones her. Elderly parent is unwittingly training daughter not to answer the phone next time.
Applying these principles to child development is really effective but you have to think it through quite deeply. I never used it systematically because the simpler naturalistic approach worked for me.

Laceyshoes · 11/09/2013 16:47

If you show him pictures of faces, he is not actually experiencing the emotion himself, and he may end up labelling the faces by rote (using tricks such as eyebrow position) but still not recognising when a real person is sad

Yes you're right and it's not just facial expression anyway is it? Other body language and tone of voice matter too. Bugger. I have to admit that I've been hoping that an app like this or some flash cards would magically help make it all clear for him but I totally see how that could just work on a very superficial level and that he may understand that a smiling cartoon face is "happy" but still not recognise emotion on a real live human being.

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Laceyshoes · 11/09/2013 16:51

Will try and find out some more about ABA, it sounds like a very effective technique if done properly.

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