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i URGENTLY need to know if i can refuse to go along with a punishment school has decided on please

36 replies

gigglinggoblin · 13/06/2006 20:30

ds (7) has been excluded for 2 days. but rather than being at home, he is to be sent to a different school where he will be looked after in isolation. i have already told his headteacher i will not agree to this. unfortunately this happened today, they rang his dad - who they know i do not speak to - and i got a garbled message from grandparents when they dropped ds off at home (he had been for tea) along the lines of 'i believe he is spending a couple of days at xx school?'

now, the fact that i am LIVID with the head for not having the decency to speak to me about it (knowing that messages do not get passed on and knowing that i am the one to delivert and coolect kids from school most days) is not the point. i shall probably address this at another moment.

however i have no desire to go to prison because my child is not at school when he should be

so can i refuse to go along with this punishment? they have done similar before, whch i agreed to, but i told them never again as ds thought it was a wonderful treat last time. i actually spoke to the head TODAY and said i would definately not agree with it if she suggested this again, that i would keep him at home instead. so she then goes and arranges this.

well done if you got this far and tia for any info

OP posts:
Pixiefish · 13/06/2006 20:35

if ds has been told that this is his punishment then imo you should go along with it and not appear to undermine the school in front of him. you have issues that need to be addressed with the school. i would personally put them in writing- regarding his father etc

Straightforward · 13/06/2006 20:35

OMG - you spoke to the head today and she still did it? Call the LEA and complain like buggery.

PanicPants · 13/06/2006 20:38

I agree with pixiefish that it would be in your ds best interest to work with the school, even though you aren't happy about it.

For future punishments you need to arrange a meeting with the head now, where you can both sit down calmly and discuss a punishment which suits you and the school.

I know it's hard but it is better to appear as a united front with the school as otherwise your ds will get mixed messages.

Why is he being excluded?

Jasnem · 13/06/2006 20:40

Sounds like an odd type of punishment, particularly if it's been used before without desired effect. Are you expected to take him to the other school, or are they? Didn't think a school could take a child out without parental permission. I would definitely mmake a complaint.

robinpud · 13/06/2006 20:42

ggg- I believe but would have to check up, that you have right of appeal to the governor's discipline committee. Every school must have a disciplie colmittee even if they have never met.
I will look on this thread in a bit and see if you have a proper answer, if not I will research for you but should be doing reports.

\link{http://www.parentscentre.gov.uk/educationandlearning/schoollife/ifthingsgowrong/exclusions/\here}

robinpud · 13/06/2006 20:42

CAt me if you want more

Feistybird · 13/06/2006 20:43

I agree the school seem to be acting against your wishes which is not good.

But, your son is obviously causing some upset and needs to be removed...maybe the first time at the other school would be a novelty, but thereafter he will see it as a punishment.

Can I just ask why you are so against him going to this other school?

gigglinggoblin · 13/06/2006 20:48

he is borderline aspergers - great if you know how to deal with him, a nightmare if you dont (like school). he has no diagnosis yet tho so school dont technically have to do anything (we are on the waiting list!). school cant cope with him at all but arent trying to do anything that will actually be of use. all my suggestions have been ignored and my friend who is a special needs professional and has helped me immensly with his behaviour has offered to help them out for free and they have refused. i have no respect for them at all and they are damaging my ds. they know the situation with xp and have chosen to go behind my back. i am not allowing him to go for a jolly for 2 days as it will not help anyone.

i have spoken to school at length, she agreed with me when i said i would not allow it to happen more than once and has chosen to ignore me. i will be complaining LOUDLY to the head tomorrow, and if i get no joy the governors are next (think they are the next step anyway).

i dont know what happened today, they told x, he didnt tell me.

thanks robinpud, will have a look through that and poss get back to you

i am not having him shunted from school to school because it is not dealing with the probnlem. if they cant cope they should say so, atm they are not being v helpful towards hjis statement application so i feel a bit like they have brought it on themselves. i am also v annoyed that i have always gone along with them and they have now gone behind my back like this.

sorry if thats a bit garbled, am struggling to keep up!

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Feistybird · 13/06/2006 20:50

oops, I am such a twit - am so sorry ggg, didn't notice you'd posted under SN.

I know nothing, will shut the eff up and go away.

gigglinggoblin · 13/06/2006 20:53

dont go feisty! you are right that he is causing disruption, im not arguing about that! its just that they have gone against what i told them which i think is a shitty thing do do considering i have always backed them up before.

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motherbeing · 13/06/2006 20:58

thats outrageous gigglinggobblin.
is there anyone in the school on your side? class teacher, head of key stage, senco...
would you consider moving ds to another school?
definately don't allow them to punish him in a way you don't think is right. you know your ds best.

Feistybird · 13/06/2006 21:02

you're a sweetie, but now I have little to post about as am in total agreement with you!!

gigglinggoblin · 13/06/2006 21:03

everyone at school is sticking together. they have been very frosty since i brought my friend to a meeting with the ed psy as she kept picking them up on things, atmosphere has been even worse since i sent a letter asking them to give me details in writing about what they have already done (this has been sent to county solicitor as head doesnt want to put things in writing that could 'make the school look bad'). i am trying to change schools but x is causing problems.

much crapness atm :(

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gigglinggoblin · 13/06/2006 21:04

thanks feisty, at least i have someone on my side :)

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Greensleeves · 13/06/2006 21:07

Angry for you. I disagree strongly with those who have said you should go along with this. How dare they. If it were my son I would keep him at home until a meeting could be arranged with the head teacher at his school in which you can air your views on the matter.

Good luck, you must be furious. xx

LeahE · 13/06/2006 21:10

If you keep him off for 2 days there is no way on earth that you will be going to prison. So if you think that's the best option I'd do it (although it makes it more difficult to have a full and frank exchange of views with the head teacher if your ds is around).

gigglinggoblin · 13/06/2006 21:12

thanks greeny, i am furious - more at the fact that she didnt have the decency to call me and let me know than anything else! am planning on going in to see her tomorrow morning as i dont actually know where he should be or what is happening. is very good to know that im not being ridiculous about this as i am sure they will try and make me feel that tomorrow - they like to let you know your place

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gigglinggoblin · 13/06/2006 21:13

thanks for support leah, it is going to be difficult if he is there, am trying to get through to my mum to see if she can look after him but she is on the phone atm. will also feel better when i have ranted at someone verbally!

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Greensleeves · 13/06/2006 21:20

You are not being ridiculous. Don't be bullied - most mothers would be spitting mad (and upset) in your position xx

cat64 · 13/06/2006 21:26

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

PanicPants · 13/06/2006 21:35

Greensleves and ggg - I'm not on the schools side at all, just said it may be better for the ds if the school and parents appear to be working together. This doesn't mean you have to accept it, just make sure ds doesn't get the message that you and school are at loggerheads and can then see school as having no authoruty at all.

See the head and ask for reasons why she has chosen this punishment against your wishes, then go to the governors if you get no joy. It's probably best to put things in writing and keep a copy so if, in the future, sonething similiar happens again you have written eveidence to back yourself up.

Good luck xx

PanicPants · 13/06/2006 21:37

something, evidence - no good watching big brother and trying to spell at the same time!

gigglinggoblin · 13/06/2006 21:55

cat - he is in a mainstream school and the other school is also mainstream. all the local schools chip in to pay a teacher to be available for the naughty children to be sent to, and she gets space at all the schools on a rota. (naughty children is heads choice of words btw, im not particularly happy with it). he will be sitting alone with her in a room, doing work on his own and will get some wordsearches and puzzles to do if he is good, which he will be as he always is when one to one. he is school action plus, i applied for a statemtn after a year of him being at this level. he has an iep, it means nothing. they have loads of targets for him but few actual strategies to help him acheive them - one target is to sit through assembly, one strategy (i use the term loosley) is to sit him in a different room with another teacher when assembly is on. i dont know what else to suggest to them, i really dont. i am just disgusted that she has been so sneaky.

i wasnt having a go at you panicpants, i do appreciate everyones opinions, it helps to know how other people see things. am thinking about writing, but as she has not yet answere my last letter which she got several weeks ago (and will not do so until she has checked it with solicitor) i feel its a bit pointless - i also cant think of anything to say which isnt extremely sarcastic. might be therapeutic to just write it and then throw it away i suppose...

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robinpud · 13/06/2006 22:00

gigglingoblin- my gut feeling as a teacher, parent and governor is that this has been poorly managed by the head and that you have every right to feel disappointed. Whilst I doubt that you are likely to get this decision changed this week, you do have right of appeal and should have been made aware of that by the Head. I have put 3 extracts from the guidance down below, the final one being a model letter suggesting how a parent might be addressed when an exclusion is to be made.
My suggestionis that you sleep on it, read through the information you have and then if you still feel strongly, ( and I think you probably should and will, ) that you write a brief note to the Head teacher, couched in calm language, saying that you wish to make representation to the GB. Make clear that you support the school as far as is possible but do not feel that they are adequately providing a curriculum to meet his needs and that the exclusion is unfair and has been poorly managed etc. Make sure thro' communication with xp that you have all the facts.
good luck.
robinpud

Governing bodies must also review fixed period exclusions which would result in the pupil being excluded for more than 5 school days but not more than 15 school days in any one term, only where the parent has expressed a wish to make representations. They must decide whether or not to reinstate the pupil, if appropriate, or whether the head teacher's decision to exclude the pupil was justified. The governing body can delegate the function of reviewing exclusions to a committee consisting of at least three governors which may be called the Discipline Committee.

  1. But the governing body must, in the case of a fixed period exclusion of 5 school days or fewer in one term (and which does not bring the pupil's total number of days of exclusion to more than 5 in one term), consider any representations made by the parent. If representations from the parent are received the governing body must consider them, but they cannot direct reinstatement (model letter 1). In such cases the governing body has discretion to agree to a meeting if the parent requests a meeting to discuss the exclusion. No statutory time-limits apply to the consideration of such exclusions, but the governing body should consider responding promptly to any request from the parent.

Model letter 1
From head teacher (or teacher in charge of a PRU) notifying parent of a fixed period exclusion of 5 school days or fewer in one term, and where a public examination is not missed

Dear [Parent's Name]

I am writing to inform you of my decision to exclude [Child's Name] for a fixed period of [Period ]. This means that he/she will not be allowed in school for this period. The exclusion begins/began on [date] and ends on [date].

I realise that this exclusion may well be upsetting for you and your family, but the decision to exclude [Child's Name] has not been taken lightly. [Child's Name] has been excluded for this fixed period because [Reason for Exclusion].

[School other than PRU] You have the right to make representations to the governing body. If you wish to make representations please contact [Name of Contact] on/at [Contact Details — Address, Phone Number, email], as soon as possible.

[PRU] You have the right to make representations to [name of LEA]. These representations will be considered by [ set out arrangements which the LEA have made for considering representations]. If you wish to make representations please contact [Name of contact] on/at [Contact Details-Address, Phone Number, email] as soon as possible.

You should also be aware that if you think the exclusion relates to a disability your child has, and you think disability discrimination has occurred, you have the right to appeal, and/or make a claim, to the SEN and Disability Tribunal (SENDIST). The address to which appeals should be sent is SENDIST, Procession House, 55 Ludgate Hill, London EC4M 7JW.

You also have the right to see a copy of [Name of Child]'s school record. Due to confidentiality restrictions, you will need to notify me in writing if you wish to be supplied with a copy of [Name of Child]'s school record. I will be happy to supply you with a copy if you request it. There may be a charge for photocopying.

The school will set work for [Name of Child] during the period of his/her exclusion [detail the arrangements for this]. Please ensure that work set by the school is completed and returned to us promptly for marking.

You may wish to contact [Name] at [LEA Name] LEA on/at [Contact Details — Address, Phone Number, email], who can provide advice. You may also find it useful to contact the Advisory Centre for Education (ACE) — an independent national advice centre for parents of children in state schools. They offer information and support on state education in England and Wales, including on exclusion from school. They can be contacted on 020 7704 9822 or at www.ace-ed.org.uk [insert reference to local sources of independent advice if known]

[Name of Child]'s exclusion expires on [Date] and we expect [Name of Child] to be back in school on [Date] at [Time]. I am sure it would be helpful for us to meet to discuss [Name of Child]'s return to school before they are due back. Please could you contact [Name] to arrange a convenient time and date.

Yours sincerely

[Name]

Head teacher

WideWebWitch · 13/06/2006 22:01

It seems to me that there are 2 things here:

  1. The head refusing to work with you to find a suitable punishment, especially when you suspect ASD or similar - she has decided to go ahead with something you strongly disagree with and think won't work anyway. This sounds mad
  1. The head going to your ex with whom you do not have a good relationship. Does he have PR? Because to me this is more serious, that she has chosen to IGNORE you and go to the other parent because she thinks she'll be allowed to do what she wants this way! That's pretty outrageous.

It's hard to say more without knowing the circs but this does sound awful and I'd be cross in your position. I think you should write to the head with your concerns and then take it up with the governors if you get no joy.