Dropping out of clubs etc

[inappropriatelyemployed]

DS is out of school at the moment but happy with it. School were very helpful but DS just can't take dealing with alot of noisy, unpredictable NT kids every day.

Anyway, he has never been able to attend m/stream clubs for this reason so we have tried various different things to expand his interests - e.g art lessons at home or a disability sports club. But he has dropped out of those as they seemed to become more of a stress every week as he got less and less interested in them and I was fighting a losing battle for no particular purpose.

He has, however, stuck to violin lessons as I have not let him drop out. He started them at his old school two years ago and continued when he left as the LA music teacher who was doing them was made redundant and started doing them privately. It has been a battle but I have forced him to go and to practice.

But why? He moans about it constantly. He goes all floppy and disinterested for the 30 mins we are there. He whinges every week now and says he is not interested in it and can we stop. It is a stress for all of us.

I worry that, if I stop, he will never stick to anything he doesn't like. But then I think he is not likely to get the message that you have to do things in life you don't like sometimes by being forced to a violin lesson every week.

What would you do? I hasten to add that, sadly, he is not very good although he is always much praised and encouraged. His coordination and other skills make it complex. He won't attend the recitals the teacher holds or the young strings group the other children go to.

Am I being mad forcing him into this??

I think the message you have to do things in life you don't like sometimes is a very good one. However, im sure its one that should be applied for things you do for 'fun', otherwise they are not fun and everything becomes the same!

Thanks. Does any child do these things for fun? I often wonder with kids who have multiple after school clubs to go to

I am happy really for him not to do it but didn't want to be a silly mare by letting him drop out and wondered if people thought I was being too wet

I suppose its whether you view it as a hobby or not, as to whether it should be 'fun'. Ive always assumed that kids go to after school clubs or play sports etc, because they enjoy it. That was certainly true of my older boys, they played football and trained every weekend because it was something they loved to do. They went to birthday parties because they were fun!

Playing sports would be ds's worst nightmare! A birthday party, ds will spend trying to get away from the other children! I have accepted his idea of 'fun' or 'enjoyment' is probably never going to be the same as 'normal' kids. He wants to sit quietly and read for enjoyment! or take the dog for a walk in the woods for 'fun'

I look at it as ds is doing things all day that he doesn't like doing, which I force him to do because you have to do things in life you don't like sometimes. Like getting dressed, brushing your teeth, having your hair washed, going school work, eating even, sitting at the table while we eat etc, etc. I think I ask him to do enough things you doesn't like doing.

For fun or enjoyment, if that is the purpose of the lesson, if he isn't have fun or enjoying it, its just another chore for him.

Excuse my you's instead of he, was a little distracted by our puppy!

If he is floppy and uninterested and not learning a lot, then it does sound rather like a pointless (and probably expensive) exercise.

That said, dd2 has almost dropped everything now. I am not sure what the answer is.

Thanks. That was my gut reaction. I have discussed it with him and in fact he was a bit ambivalent as he doesn't want to go to the lesson when it comes round to it but actually is quite proud he has stuck at it for so long. We had quite a sensible mature discussion.

So we have cancelled this week and will decide by next week what to do.

2 years is a good innings for something that you don't particularly like! he should be proud of himself.

Ds feels very guilty, if he thinks its something I want him to do, but he doesn't want to do it. Ds really wants to comply and please me. Do you think he maybe feeling a bit like that?

Ds attends one club 'social club' an after school club, I think half to please me, although there is a degree of enjoyment on his behalf too!

Today he had a stressful day, with talk of blood tests and such like and he said that he didn't want to go to social club. I said that was fine.

After social club would have been finished, he came running down the stairs saying "oh do you think I should go to social club" I told him it was finished by now, to which he did such a false "oh no, never mind"

If your DS was going to school then I?d be quite happy that was all the ?doing stuff he doesn?t like? that he needs. But you say he?s not going to school? Having no social interaction at all may not be healthy for him. And learning that he can avoid all forms of social interaction by going floppy and moaning may not be the best thing for him in the long term.

The purpose of doing a little activity is to stop his horizons from shrinking and shrinking. In general I strongly agree with not trying to force stressed and anxious kids, but there's a worry that the less he does the less he may want to do and the less he will be able to do in future. It?s about identifying a level where he can mostly cope, and trying to keep things at that level.

So? where is your DS getting social interaction, with other adults and with other kids? Is he by himself or with you all the time? I would not worry about whether he is a good player or whether he takes part in recitals. But I would worry if he was stuck at home all day every day for a long time, not doing any activities at all with any other people at all. I agree with letting him try different activities. Two years is pretty good on the violin. I?d agree to let him stop doing that if he will try something else. Or I might bribe him to keep going or try new things

Sorry if I?ve misunderstood the situation. Good luck finding something that works for your DS!

Thanks but I am completely baffled by the idea that going to school = social interaction for a child with Asperger's

Quite the opposite in my experience. It equates to negative feelings about interacting and, in my son's case a refusal to interact with his peers.

This kind of thing fits in with the myth peddalled by LAs and NHS SLTs who try to convince us that dumping Aspies in mainstream school is some form of intervention which aids their social communication. That somehow they 'pick up' social skills by osmosis, by being with other people. They don't.

Equally, just because he is not at school does not mean he doesn't get interaction or that this is somehow a lucky option where he gets to do what he wants all day We have done more work on real lifesocial communication in four weeks out of school than he would have done in a year of crap NHS social group provision in school.

I am not sure how much you know about children with Aspergers but his floppy stuff means 'get me out of here I don't want to do this - it's stresssing me' and not 'I want to avoid social interaction at all costs'. Further, I am not sure how valuable 30 mins a week with an elderly violin teacher is in terms of interaction

I am sorry if I sound sharp, I am sure you are trying to help but you sound very patronising because you have made assumptions about the distinction between home and school.

Also, I work at home so even when he was at school, I had little social interaction save for drop off and pick up and to be frank I tend to avoid the mummies in the playground like the plague.

Not because I don't like social interaction but because I choose who I want to mix with.

Perhaps I should be worried for myself too?????

Ds1 was very similar at that age but now he is nearing post 16 he is through his own choice beginning to join clubs, computing, science etc the tend to be quiet, structured all the things which younger clubs where not. He hated 1 to 1 music lesson it was to much pressure for him, nowhere to hide. At your DS age we joined an expensive gym where he could swim and use the gym machines. Social interaction was hard for him as he never fitted with peers at primary, this changed for him later as he got older, he was never going to be a child in the nt sense, he accepted this it was me that pushed too hard. The joys of hindsight, I wish I had been brave enough to home school.

He would love to join the gym but they can't use the equipment at mine til they are 15! How old was it for your son? I would love to be able to take him down to the gym.

They have supervised gym at 8, he use to wear his iPod with large headphones, the staff show them how to use the machines and supervise and I would use machines in sight of him which would calm him.

I agree IE social interaction at school has left ds feeling persecuted and anxious and resulted in him not being able to attend and totally withdrawing from interactions.

It has nothing to do with ds wanting to avoid interaction, he desperately wants to interact, but he has great difficulty with it, due to his difficulties with social interactions and understanding. He finds it difficult to interpret the meanings and intentions of social situations and others.

You are right about it being an LA/School and even CAMHS standard response line too, if he doesn't interact, he wont learn the skills. He obviously hasn't picked them up this far, he needs to taught these skills.

and which 'normal' 9 year old wants to interact with a kid, who doesn't want to talk about anything other than what interests him!

Then you get crap provision written into a statement to help with this, such as 'turn taking' ds has no difficulty with turn taking whatsoever, how the hell is that going to help and a social story a social story about what exactly, yea that should do the trick!

I hated playing the violin too.
Could you negotiate that he can stop violin but has to choose a replacement activity?
TBH DS2 my NT 9 year old is not a 'joiner' / team activity person either and drops out of everything. He does like art and we have found a weekend art club at local college of art.
He will tolerate more individual sports like climbing wall, canoeing where he does not have to be on a team.
I know an Aspie who does drama club and we have a local theatre company that runs a specific project for Aspies where they write and perform plays, it was for 11+ though. Also seen some inclusive choirs advertised.
Did you find any HE groups?
My NT 9 and 11 year old boys both play minecraft online on the xbox with their school friends (drives me mad). Obviously you want a group of known boys the same age not to playing online with strangers - but it struck me this was a great social activity for ds3 when he is older. My 11 year old is not talkative but stick a headset on him and he is happily chatting away to other children in his class over the xbox about the game. He would never pick up a phone to chat to his mates but because its based around the game then it gets over the social awkwardness and gives a subject to talk about. I know playing in your house on a machine is probably not what you have in mind but if you meet children through other activities then following that up with an interactive game like xbox minecraft might be a good way of cementing friendships? It seems a popular thing for that age group. It is a bit disconcerting when I am yelling at DS1 to get off the x box to realise half his classmates are listening in though
Warhammer / gaming groups eg at games shops are another activity I have come across that can work where other things have failed. A Mum I know set up her own games group (ds, warhammer etc) for her Aspie son in a church hall and advertised it at local schools - you dont have to have asd to go but we reckon about 80% of the children that go do. Alot of families say its the only group their child has ever stuck with.

OP, I think that you and your DS have done fantastically well sticking with violin for two years. I'm very impressed. Even if he gives it up now he has been commited to it for a long time already.
My DS (9) doesn't do any activities, he doesn't have the concentration, the motor skills, the desire or the patience for any activities apart from school (and that's an enormous struggle). We have no problem with that, it's just the way it is.

Thanks folks. That is really helpful.

Would you believe, Agnes, that DS loves Warhammer! Perhaps this should replace the ADOS!

What about replacing the violin with something else musical that might help with transferable skills like improvising on a keyboard (something to do) playing with a mixing desk (parties) music therapy (everything)?

Yes he does like music. Maybe it doesn't matter whether he sticks at something as much as it does that he tries things.

My youngest isn't particularly keen on clubs either although he is very sociable. He would rather play out with his brother.

DS2 is a a great social skills intervention!

Yes, my DS has Asperger?s though he?s a lot more sociable than yours and my DS is better suited to mainstream school than either special school or home education. Your DS sounds very different from mine.

I am sorry that I was out of line about your son.

Kleinzeit sorry that I was sharp. They are all very different and I thought my son was best suited to mainstream til it all fell apart again.