Has anyone moved a child from mainstream when they seemed to be doing ok?

[used2bthin]

I have posted loads about this sorry but the stress of it all is dreadful right now.

It was suggested dd move to ss this September as academically she was way behind and also her needs meant she was not coping, she was lashing out and hiding under tables. Sen panel rang me to say they felt ss was more apprpropriate so we have been doing gradual integration to our local one. Mainstream school now say dd is much happier, she is doing well academically and has made loads of progress. But still in p levels for all except one subject. She s year one and as far as I can tell they only think she would manage one more year mainstream.

Anyway she has friends sort of, as in children who look after her there. But I feel she is struggling socially already and it will get worse, her psychologist agrees but school feel she is ok. School are managing the social issues really well but I still feel it would be fairer to her to give her a peer group she could have equal friendships with.

So after a very emotional conversationwith the psychologist tomorrow I think my decision is move to ss, I think leaving while mainstream is mostly positive is better than waiting for it to get worse but am feeling really upset at leaving the lovely small school that we live near and know everyone at has anyone done similar? I think this is what's best for dd but somehow it isn't making it easier especially as school keep saying how well she's doing.

I did.

Special school despite all LA peeps inc school saying no probs coz I wanted the experts for him.

Thanks star, was it a hard decision ? I am sleepless over this, even when dd2 actually sleeps! Feel like only our NHS psych really agrees although ss say she is a great fit with her little class there and they can meet her needs. But both schools say they can meet her needs!!

Poor you, I have no useful advice but feel for you. No matter how hard it is to move your dd it sounds like you think it is the right thing to do?

Have you done a list of pros and cons, it might help to see more clearly? Good luck with your decision, trust your instincts and you will do the best for your dd whatever decision you go for, so don't be too hard on yourself (I know that is easier said than done).

Thank you. Yes I have done pros and cons but not for a while, maybe time for another go. I think we've been lucky our mainstream school is sol lovely with such nice caring children but its certainly ,are the decision harder.

I THINK it's the right decision. In fact it is really the only decision long term, it just hurts to take her away from the school we moved twice to get her into then get more involved with.

Am I the only one thinking cynically that the mainstream school don't want to lose her funding??

It's such a hard choice but I'd say go with the SS where the experts are and the ratios are better. I'm assuming also that the environment will be better than a visually busy and noisy MS?

My DS is in MS but he struggles and is sad. He was hit especially hard moving up to KS2 (key stage 2, year 3) as the work ramps up and requires more intellectually. His school are good but I think he will have to go to SS at some point.

It seems a shame to move because of the fact that you know everyone there, and dd is part of the community. Mine is in mainstream and was at P levels in year 1 and beyond, but I stuck it out and she is now coming on leaps and bounds in a secondary mainstream level 5C in year 8.

Her primary was also full of 'nice' children that looked after her but I regret now not sending her to a mainstream that was more mixed so she had children around her that were also different.

So my question to you is whether you think that if she did start to do better would she be able to move out of ss back into mainstream.

In my experience dds social development was more important in primary than her academic and it's paid off because she now works quite well independently and can cope with the ups and downs in life.

I haven't got an answer but I feel for you being in this dilemma.

Thanks your hand and wondering again. I think the school are perhaps feeling a bit upset that their hard work with her doesn't mean she stays but I don't think it's a funding thing as the class teacher initially thought ss a good plan till dd started seeming more settled.

I think the thing is I can see that although some things have improved and she's grown up loads, she is losing confidence and isn't the happy loud girl she used to be, some of that may be coincidental but I feel she really knows she is not the same as her peers in mainstream and the way they baby her doesn't help, even if it is well meaning.

The psych said the teacher is handling the social situation with tact but dd is really struggling at breaks and is trailing around after a girl she adores who basically has found it all a bit too intense after being with dd all the time for months, even helping her put her book bag away etc. I want real friendships for her where she is an equal iyswim , nice as it is that they look after her.

Also if long term she is going, I want to get it done I think. They seem to be saying she may manage another year max in mainstream. So I think she probably won't go back onto mainstream but maybe could end up with doing qualifications if she gets the confidence, its just making sure she is in the right place for that to happen.

I think I misunderstood your question sorry. Ss say they never keep pupils who don't need to be there so she could go back to mainstream if needs be. ATM she does a bit of both schools though but she won't from sept it is either or. So she would be forgotten by the other kids maybe if she left then returned?

The funding formula has changed now and schools get the first 6K of funding for SEN pupils. I wonder if that's what has changed?

It does sound as though the school is not right for her, having positive friendships is so important. Might there be other schools that would work for her or is SS the best option?

There possibly are and I have been looking at all of them but I feel there is nowhere that is different enough to warrant introducing a third option as she currently is settled at both ss and mainstream. Ss say they are happy with the class she is in and she has peers there of similar ability. I think ss is best but it isn't a straight forward thing.

All a bit hard at the moment because mainstream now say the spilt placement isn't working so I have to make a choice and ss will not keep her place if I don't decide pretty soon.

Used2b, if SS is the long term plan, I think it would be fine to make that transition now. Split placements are possible, my DS2 was mornings in MS and afternoons in SS for nearly a year, in reception, but in Y1 work is more structured and what's started in the morning is often extended into the afternoon. She'll be missing work and when she's struggling academically anyway...

Thanks Ellen yes I think you are right. It is a wrench but I think ss is the way to go. Mainstream school are going to be disappointed in the decision though and it will make me feel worse. Ugh if only life was simple.

I think you have to remember that not all mainstreams are equal and not all SSs are equal.

There are very few SS's that I would have agreed to my ds attending. Even some of those that I thought were excellent would have been a worse fit for ds than mainstream, so I had to choose carefully, and I have to say too, that the school I chose isn't perfect, rather, the best option available iyswim.

BUT, if your child needs expert intervention, then IMO, the earlier the better. You can always 'top up'. My ds' particular condition puts him at huge risk of mental health problems if the setting is too confusing and he is not appropriately supported, which due to young age and few aggressive tendencies means even more likely. Sometimes I feel I have had to choose between bored or bullied though, but I think bored is easier to fix with extra-curricular stuff iyswim.

There's no right choice, and you'll never know whether you should have made a different one, but I'll bet that the choice you make will be more informed and as 'right' as it possibly can be as it is you, not anyone else that has spend the mental energy on it.

Thanks star. Yes you are right there is no perfect fit, that's exactly what Xp said yesterday. Also he told me I need to take a step back and realise dd does struggle with relationships so mainstream are doing all they can (I was still upset at the daily helper idea)

I think mental health is a big worry for dd too and as the psych said yesterday, dd is more likely to feel good about herself in a setting where she is not least able all the time.

Dd is borderline for learning disability so is in the middle but the asd and communication issues are still there regardless and I feel she needs more therapy than she will ever access in mainstream. I think the ss is not ideal generally in terms of peer group but this one class could be ok for her and she already knows them etc so I think it's best for now, later maybe she will move to one for moderate learning disabilities which is further away but does more academic stuff.

And lastly, this is really awful but dd has a serious condition, she is ill a lot. Not only would ss help her pick up where she left off more easily after being off sick whereas mainstream can't so much but also she has a horrible time of it medically. And ultimately she has lots of complications even with her condition which is life threatening not necessarily life limiting, but it means I want her to enjoy her life and see academic success as secondary, for now anyway. She can catch up with that later if needs be. Mainstream would see this as me wasting her potential I suspect but I think that's a blinkered view.

Oh actually, quick question to those with dc in ss, dd has picked up some of the habits of children in ss, she is a good mimic and comes back spinning or yelping. I am wondering if this is not as bad as I first thought and they are coping mechanisms whereas before she may have pushed her sister over or thrown things,now she has other ways? Could be a direct copy though instead as she often becomes a baby and is completely in role as her little sister. Does it matter? Some of the kids at ss do what she used to do a year ago, pinching or pushing the person next to them at transition times for example and mainstream say dd may regress. Any thoughts on this?

After a year of SN (integrated) Nursery and a year out of school (hospitalisations) Bee started in MS. At the end of her first year, she was moved into a Developmental Unit at her MS school. The following year, we moved and were offered a "developmental" class where all of the students were non-ambulatory, non-verbal and essentially at the school to fulfill the "attending school" requirement. NO learning was occurring, and it was definitely not an appropriate placement for her, but because of her medical fragility, they could not offer her a place in any other class and still ensure her safety.

We were approached by the hospital school she now attends and they suggested they might be able to help her. It has been, without a doubt, the best thing we could have done for her. Starting next year, we begin to transition her into a MS school, but the transition will be gradual, over 2-3 years.

Without the time in the SS, there is no way that Bee would have made the gains she has, and the SS has given her tools that she can take with her in the transition to MS.

With regard to "negative" behaviours, she may pick some up, but new behaviours are not hard to interrupt. Bee is in a class with a child who shakes her head, one who shrieks, and one who hums. Bee is a chewer. She has "tried on" others' behaviours, but nothing stuck because it didn't fill a need, where her chewing does. If a behaviour does not fulfill a need, it will be discarded - if it does fill a need, then it is better to be in a SS to identify the need and find more appropriate ways to meet it, kwim?

And - and this is VERY important... an SS can support her far more effectively with missed school than a MS ever could. In Y1, Bee didn't have but 11 days at school before Christmas, she was in the hospital for weeks or more at a time, and was absent for several more long periods before the end of the year. Y2, she did not start until the middle of October, again, because of hospitalisation, and she has been hospitalised several times since. In MS, she would have been done for - no chance whatsoever to catch up. Because of the SS, however, she has been able to work on an individually developed program and make up for all the time that is lost to her illness...

I think you have to consider whether negative behaviours are actually improvements.

When ds started to poke other children for a reaction, it was a massive developmental leap as previously he had no interest in his peers or their reactions and tended to avoid them.

Not great for his peers, and obviously had to be dealt with, but it wasn't a negative progression iyswim, it was a positive one.

DS has recently started to disrupt small group work lessons by chatting to his peers. He's always in trouble for chatting. 2 years ago I thought he would never converse, though he could label things. He just sat where he was told to without engaging with anyone or even being aware of what he was supposed to do.

Thank you beemom I can't tell you how much it is helping to hear from everyone here and what you say about behaviours makes perfect sense. In fact I will say as much when it comes up again at mainstream. Our mainstream have been amazing with dd and really done more than they had to do , I just think they perhaps have the view of ss that I may have had had I not seen what I have seen now.

The ss dd will go to has had a negative reputation a few years ago after a failed ofsted and so there are some odd attitudes around here about it as it was felt at the time that it didn't help children progress enough. However it now has a new head and things have changed for the better, also there are more and more children going in after trying mainstream which means more peers for dd.

I have always felt we do things the wrong way around here and wish dd had been able to attend a ss at three then move into mainstream later on, so much evidence for early intervention yet children have to fail in mainstream before they get a chance for specialist provision, at least that's how it is in my county. So I think the way bee has done it sounds great.

Hang on sorry x posted there...will read and come back

Star that makes me think of how I used to be so jealous when people said their kids talked too much! If someone said to me when dd was three that she would keep talking and interrupt I would have been over the moon so I can see exactly what you mean!

And also yy to some things being positive as I am wondering if dd being more "defiant' since attending ss is due to increased confidence because I am horrified at how quiet she is at school (only recently found this out) because she is definitely not a quiet child, she is noisy and confident and does exactly what she wants ! It saddens me that she is so meek at school.

Beemom that's it isn't it, dd is off so much and hospitalised often too, we are always at hospital even when she is well, she is there tomorrow afternoon and then weekly at the moment which involves leaving school early as she is having twelve weeks of treatment and also constant tests, all of which means she is off school so much more than other children.

And then to have pain and disruption like she does and to have stressful life trying to fit with children when she can't speak clearly like them or all the other stuff she struggles with must be so hard and I want to take the stress away, not least because her health is frighteningly bad at times and I wonder what will happen but that's another issue. I was collecting at ss yesterday and a mum was saying about her Ds having nappies still and about his meds and I thought wow most of the kids here are on meds and have physical issues too whereas at mainstream it is unusual.

Just having a read through of this in preparation for tomorrow. I have the annual review meeting tues and I think I will say ss. Feel dreadful about it, like I am a traitor to the mainstream one or something as I know they don't agree and they have done loads for dd. I am going to talk to her teacher and hopefully TA if I can catch her tomorrow as don't want it to be just news to them at the review which will have a big group of us there.

Wish I felt better about it but I just feel really sad and anxious about the decision. Think I am dreading tomorrow as much as dd is!

DS1's school have bent over backwards and been lovely with him in the 6.5 years he's been there. I've still said I want a change of placement at the AR we had before half term, and they're supportive of it - SENCO admitted and HT has admitted in the past that they often feel they are letting him down. LA EP has also written a report which concurs with our own analysis of what he needs for the future.

In the end, you do what is best for your DC and which will impact them for the rest of their lives.

Ooh ouryve thanks for that reply as I am having a wobble. Haven't yet spoken to class teacher she was busy this morning and also dd went in (mainstream today) so happily once she saw her lovely TA. It's so hard. I definitely feel ss is what I would choose if I was starting from scratch and can see its what she needs , but a part of me is terrified I have made the wrong choice and I love our school, its so friendly. Argh.

Sounds like your school are great and its so good they are onside with it. How old is your Ds? And where will he go next do you know yet?