I got to thinking about reproduction yesterday...any thoughts?

[lougle]

DF and I were chatting yesterday about DD1 being taken advantage of by 'friends' already, and I said that I dread her coming to an age where she can be taken advantage of by a boy/man. I said 'I can see me ending up bring up her baby...' He said 'you may need to get her sorted so she doesn't have that risk.'

It's a long time away, yet so soon. She's 7.4 now, just 8.6 years before age of consent. I know lots can change, but her deficits are more pronounced in the social sense. She is utterly naive, everyone's best friend, no stranger danger at all and that hasn't improved one bit with age. In fact, I'd say that part of her is 'broken'. She can learn the 'rules' and repeat them to you, but not apply them. In terms of parenting skills, I think, if she continues as she is, developing as she is, she wouldn't be able to parent.

What's moral/ethical? Should our children (those who will still be significantly impaired in those skills as adults - I know that many of the children on this board will be able to lead independent lives with the right input as children) be able to reproduce? Would it be ethical to insist on contraception?

I think I struggle because DD1 will be able to have an opinion, and may quite like the idea of having a baby, but she won't necessarily have any insight into what that means....

Consent is interesting. Permitting and refusing treatment have different rules. The law usually assumes that an under-16 requires a parent to consent or refuse treatment on their behalf. In contentious cases (JW and blood, separating conjoined twins, even withdrawing intensive care) with parents and medics disagreeing, the courts tend to get involved.

Doctors and nurses are required to put the child's 'best interests' first: the parent is unavailable, and no high court judge is handy they weigh these interests up, then start any urgent or emergency treatment. So a conscious-but-unaccompanied dc is treated rather like a comatose adult.

In a non-emergency, a 'competent' under-16 can 'consent' for themself, by demonstrating they can retain, believe in and balance the pros and cons, eg the Mrs Gillick / Judge Fraser case. An over-16 is assumed to be capable of this lot until proved otherwise (and if they aren't competent, but can 'seem ok', a guardianship order is a useful bit of paperwork).

However a competent under-16, or even a competent 16-18y old cannot necessarily refuse treatment which parents and doctors consider essential, and in their best interests. Though again, it might involve a judge.

(Mirena also out due to ectopics AND a viable term pregnancy - my DS2 - in the family)

DD can't take pills, refuses to consent to jabs (needle phobic), would do anything to please (THAT scares the crap out of me - if you love me you won't make me wear a condom, DD will just say ok...), could just about get the implant put in but she'd never have it removed...

And despite the hormonal ness one week every month, still no damned period so that I can do SOMETHING.

I would take a first baby on, if I'd be allowed, given my own poor health, but after that I just couldn't.

DD will also be in that too able, not able enough conundrum. And is so close to it that it's scary. It keeps me awake some nights.

Couthy, Brook might be worth a call. Or this lot?

I'll have a look tomorrow when I'm less shattered. Thanks for the links though.

You'd be surprised how quickly it gets to the point where they're 15 and you still haven't got any firmer answers on this than when they were 7/8 though!

Aside from the unwanted pregnancy angle, going on the pill when she's a teenager might be better for her anyway as she would have more control over when her period was coming that month.

Thanks Mareeya that's very helpful.

I think I'm less concerned about pregnancy than I am about abuse. I am very worried about dd's vulnerability and being taken advantage of is more likely to be a problem for her.

Her school has been excellent so far, there is a lot of discussion and support about all sorts - nurture groups and special classes but ultimately it's down to us as parents to make sure we understand them fully and know what their limits are.

I have always told mine that she can have children and loves the idea of it (watches pregnancy programmes on TV when she can get away with it). I have been open with her from a very young age so that we can communicate and share ideas about it. We have had a lot of discussions like 'having a nice husband' and 'being kind to babies / pets' and being sensible and grown up.

I am more concerned about how she can recognise people that can take advantage of her but she does have a good natural barometer of peoples characters. I have always let her play out and let her make her own mistakes and she has always been at school with minimal intervention from adults so she has learned a lot through personal experience.

Bee hit puberty at 5.5 - she is currently receiving hormonal therapy to delay it as long as possible. Her endocrinologist and I talked about this exact topic, and Bee would easily be so very taken advantage of.

For her, she has a hormone releasing implant - there are several options with regard to therapy and contraception, but honestly, that only covers the "babymaking" side of the equation. I am realistically more concerned about disease and abuse... Bee's personality makes her very much a potential victim. Sadly, I don't know where to draw the line between independence and protection.