SENCO

[lisson]

I know my son's SENCO is not being helpful, but is she actually not doing her job or is this normal? In other words are my expectations too high?

Briefly, DS is in year 6. His job share class teacher is also the SENCO. She has been getting at him generally about everything but particularly about the speed and quality of his handwriting since September.
It all came to a head last month and I sought a meeting with her. I'm not the first parent who has complained about her this year, but I think I am the first who got somewhere but it was only because I was very willing to bring a formal complaint and she knew it. So when we met, she was sweetness and light and we managed to have a constructive conversation. Since our meeting in Feb she has been nice to DS and there have been no more sarky comments. In fact she's improved her behaviour with the whole class, so it was definitely worth doing.
However, when I met her it was apparent that DS does have a problem with his handwriting and that it was holding him back generally because he can't write fast enough to complete exam papers etc. Otherwise everything is good, and he's doing well at school in everything that doesn't have lots of writing (eg maths and the SPaG tests).
So, I arranged for DS to see a private handwriting tutor and the tutor (who is a SENCO too), says that DS has dysgraphia. Suddenly, everything is falling into place.
Realistically, with only a few months left , I wasn't expecting the school to do much, if anything. So, I sent a letter into school saying what was suspected just to have it on DS's file and I even said in it that I am not asking the school to do anything.
Then it was parent's night. I waked into the room expecting a quick general, fake-friendly chat and I walked out furious! The SENCO started the meeting by telling me that DS is doing "so well" that she wouldn't dream of helping him with his dysgraphia. I reminded her that I'm not asking for her help as its too late, particularly for applying for extra time in the SATS. However, she kept on being aggressive, condescending and arrogant (a lovely combination).
Last month the teacher's view was that DS's mock exam performance was not nearly good enough due to his slow handwriting and she was writing DS acid notes to him about it, but this month, she says that I am wrong to question this at all because he's at expected levels for the writing tasks, well above them for everything else and that means he's doing well across the board. According to her, he'd have to be failing really badly before she'd do anything to help.
I went into the meeting expecting a quick 10 mins of nothingness and I walked out seriously irritated and contemplating paying for a full educational assessment for DS just so that I could use it to stuff it down her throat make a formal complaint about the teacher's failings. Even mild-mannered DH was appalled at the way she spoke to us (however it does confirm that DS wasn't exaggerating).

But is she (technically) right i.e. no school would do anything to help a child with a disability unless the child was a long way below national expectations?

(Sorry its long after all)

No, she is not right. I wonder if she has had her knuckles rapped (?by HT?) because to admit a problem = to identify a need = to make provision. Perhaps when it comes to the crunch, they would rather pass the problem upstream to secondary (especially as you are so, erm, 'difficult to work with' )

I sympathise (see my long post from this morning 'help me be strategic'), I have had similar SENCO problems. It is most infuriating. I applaud you for your assertiveness. Do channel your anger into some action, I did battle with ours in October by writing to the Governors. Swift action ensued within 24hrs this way. You could do the same (get their SEN policy and SENCOP and quote it regarding consistency and graduated response blah blah blah). Worth a try?

Oh gosh I can't believe this. My DS has had issues with hand-writing. RU sure it's dysgraphia and not dyspraxia. My ds has working memory and processing issues, which means output is poor re. hand-writing, so his speed is down. It might be worth asking for an EP assessment before secondary, which is what I did. Went for independent one in the end as got one done in house and she didn't assess all that I wanted assessed hence missed his processing disorder and didn't even measure his writing speed. Also need to see if your ds has a sequencing issue. As for Senco's shame we are so dependent on them. Have found some patronizing and obstructive and recently one who is supportive, helpful and happy to work with me as part of the team around the child. We missed getting extra time in SAT's and not clear would qualify, but you can look at him having a scribe or using a laptop, don't think it is too late for that. My advice is get as much sorted as u can before going to Secondary. ie. Sens register, Action Plus etc.

Oh gosh I can't believe this. My DS has had issues with hand-writing. RU sure it's dysgraphia and not dyspraxia. My ds has working memory and processing issues, which means output is poor re. hand-writing, so his speed is down. It might be worth asking for an EP assessment before secondary, which is what I did. Went for independent one in the end as got one done in house and she didn't assess all that I wanted assessed hence missed his processing disorder and didn't even measure his writing speed. Also need to see if your ds has a sequencing issue. As for Senco's shame we are so dependent on them. Have found some patronizing and obstructive and recently one who is supportive, helpful and happy to work with me as part of the team around the child. We missed getting extra time in SAT's and not clear would qualify, but you can look at him having a scribe or using a laptop, don't think it is too late for that. My advice is get as much sorted as u can before going to Secondary. ie. Sens register, Action Plus etc.

Oh gosh I can't believe this. My DS has had issues with hand-writing. RU sure it's dysgraphia and not dyspraxia. My ds has working memory and processing issues, which means output is poor re. hand-writing, so his speed is down. It might be worth asking for an EP assessment before secondary, which is what I did. Went for independent one in the end as got one done in house and she didn't assess all that I wanted assessed hence missed his processing disorder and didn't even measure his writing speed. Also need to see if your ds has a sequencing issue. As for Senco's shame we are so dependent on them. Have found some patronizing and obstructive and recently one who is supportive, helpful and happy to work with me as part of the team around the child. We missed getting extra time in SAT's and not clear would qualify, but you can look at him having a scribe or using a laptop, don't think it is too late for that. My advice is get as much sorted as u can before going to Secondary. ie. Sens register, Action Plus etc.

No, she's not right, not even technically.

Ds1 is at expected levels and higher for his SATs (also y6) but has handwriting and processing speed issues, similar to supermum98's ds.

He has a statement that actually specifies additional time and use of a computer for all tests, assessments and examinations. He is also allowed to use a computer for longer pieces of work in class - also specified in his statement.

I had to fight tooth and nail to get the school to implement this support though, despite it being clearly set down in his statement. The SENCO had a big problem with him getting access arrangements for SATs and in particular tried to block the use of a computer, by not allowing him regular access to it in class (it has to be a regular support strategy for it to be allowed in SATs). She also told me she would have to personally test ds's writing speed and decide whether or not he was entitled to extra time - which again was complete and utter rubbish. He was automatically entitled to it by virtue of having a statement, on top of it being specified in the statement itself. It took a show down with her, in front of our LEA officer for her to back down and admit that he was entitled.

At ds's recent secondary interview we were told by the head that the content of his work is at GCSE level, but his primary school have failed to recognise his ability and he has been unable to demonstrate it due to their lack of support. The Head was incredulous that the primary wouldn't have supported him to achieve his potential, as it can only look good for them to have pupils working at such a high standard. Basically, as long as he doesn't cause any problems in class and meets national expectations they just aren't interested.

I don't understand why schools have such a problem with providing appropriate support for handwriting and processing difficulties, but it does seem very common. Ds2's OT said the same at a recent appointment, there is no logical reason for not removing barriers to achievement for children who have handwriting issues - especially where the content is good ie at or above national standards - but they are unable to demonstrate their ability due to handwriting and/or processing difficulties. Apparently she regularly takes SENCOs to task over it in our area.

There are strict criteria for extra time and the deadline has now passed to apply to the LEA. See www.education.gov.uk/schools/teachingandlearning/assessment/keystage2/ks2tests

A reader or scribe are provided (usually the TAs) at the discretion of the head teacher. The child is supposed to be reading/writing at the level of an average 9 year old but this is often got around by having a 'nurture group' prior to the SATs that enable the argument that the support is usually provided in class. The children targeted will be those who are not expected to achieve the expected level (4b) or those that will not have made adequate progress between KS1 and KS2 (2 levels).

DS1 did his SATs last year and there were five readers for 16 children - 3 of whom were g&t and achieved level 6 in maths.

There are strict criteria for extra time and the deadline has now passed to apply to the LEA. See www.education.gov.uk/schools/teachingandlearning/assessment/keystage2/ks2tests

A reader or scribe are provided (usually the TAs) at the discretion of the head teacher. The child is supposed to be reading/writing at the level of an average 9 year old but this is often got around by having a 'nurture group' prior to the SATs that enable the argument that the support is usually provided in class. The children targeted will be those who are not expected to achieve the expected level (4b) or those that will not have made adequate progress between KS1 and KS2 (2 levels).

DS1 did his SATs last year and there were five readers for 16 children - 3 of whom were g&t and achieved level 6 in maths.

Supermum98 and Moosemama: DS is also suspected of having the processing problems you describe. The handwriting tutor says she noticed this too and she has been pressing me to let her do a full assessment.

The handwriting tutor has a qualification that she says qualifies her to make assessments and that this is laid down in the "pink Book" (whatever that is).

My problem with paying for an assessment are:- 1. the secondary school say they won't accept external ones, preferring to do their own (and promising to test DS on the first week he joins) 2. its too late for getting extra time in the SATS anyway and 3. the cost.

I'd really like to have an assessment because i'd like to get a formal diagnosis, but what is the point if no one will read it? The handwriting tutor's response to this is that the Disability Act means that its illegal for a school to not make provision for a child who has a proven disability.

But I can see months of fighting with the primary SENCO to get her to do anything and by then it will be too late anyway. Then the secondary SENCO (who was incredibly nice and helpful) said that they will do their own tests to identify the issues anyway and I don't want to get off on the wrong foot with her since she is promising to help.

(BTW yes, I think the HT told the primary class teacher/ SENCO to watch her step because I was quoting some of the evidence I had collected of the teacher's bullying behaviour towards DS and I'm certain the HT knew that I was more than ready to do whatever it took to stop her from bullying DS any further. Honestly, I don't care if that marks me out as a problem parent - someone had to stop her from hurting DS and none of the other written complaints from other parents had had any effect at all.)

@KeepOnKeepingOn1: DS is also G&T for maths (level 6) and he always used to be equally good at reading until his writing problems meant that he couldn't write the answers down quickly enough. Now he's actually fallen back to a 4b - so almost below national expectations but not quite. However well below what he could do if his writing was faster.

(This was what the teacher was complaining about and had been getting at him for. I met her last month and she talked about it for ages showing me all kinds of evidence that DS was falling behind by not doing his work quickly enough. Then a fortnight ago, I tell her that he likely has dysgraphia and suddenly she puts her SENCO hat on and starts telling me the exact opposite of what she said last month.)

The other thing that's strange is that the class does practice SATS all the time - too much IMO but that's another story!. However, DS says that no one gets extra time, even though I know of at least 2 children in the class who have severe learning difficulties and who really struggle with the work at all, requiring a 1-1 TA etc. Is it possible that the SENCO/ year 6 teacher was unaware of the extra time for SATS concept?? Weird I know, but she described DS the other night as having "Dsygraphia/ Dyslexia/ Dys-whatever"

Did he achieve 2b or lower in the KS1 reading SAT?

If higher he will not have progressed 2 levels and show up in the stats.

What was his progress rate in writing and maths?

But practically whilst this may be uncomfortable for the school it will mean bugger all unless typing is faster than writing in which case they have nothing to lose. The school is not likely to be able to justify use of a scribe if one has never been used previously.

Different progress rates and attainment will be useful for you and the next school to understand strengths and weaknesses but it is too late for the KS2 SATs.

But there is no specific 'diagnosis' of dsygraphia/dyslexia and so legally speaking the child does not have a recognised disability. They may be being treated unfairly but they are not being discriminated against.

Have the secondary said they will carry out specific tests/assessments rather than the usual year 7 assessment?

He didn't do the KS1 SATS.

We lived abroad and he started straight into year 3. But, last year he was a reading 5C and now he's a 4B because the time element has been added in. He pretty much gets 100% right in what he does write down, its just that he only answers the first half of the paper before he runs out of time.
Since starting school he has more or less gone up 2 or 3 sublevels every year until this year. this year his maths has gone up 2 or 3 again, his writing has stayed the same and his reading has fallen back 2.

He was 4C at the end of year 4 for reading, so if he gets a 4B now, then he will have moved up one sublevel in two years.

But the SENCO/ class teacher says that you should not compare NC levels from earlier years with year 6 levels as they are completely different things.

I did not know that there was no specific diagnosis of dsygraphia/dyslexia! Does this mean that the handwriting tutor has misinformed me, esp when she was talking about how the Disability Act applies?

Do you think she's embarrassed about not noticing the dysgraphia before? (I'm in no way excusing her behaviour, I think she was completely out of order).

I thought dyslexia was covered by the disability act?

I'd have been embarrassed if I were her. However, I would not have sought to antagonise the mother in a meeting when the mother was calm and had already indicated that she was prepared to let it go. That bit was just stupid.

moosemama, I was shocked to see that you have a statement. My independent EP report suggested Action Plus/ extra time/scribe or laptop, but no statement. Currently my ds is on 3a, 4c, 4c, for SAT's. Because Neale gave over 12.10 in everything primary says he doesn't qualify for anything. Seems illogical to me that every concession seems to be based on reading ability. He has processing speed 4th percentile/wm 12 percentile and writing speed 25-50th percentile and even low average short-term memory. ie. He says 3 x SPLD. I'm feeling miserable about it as it seems unfair and now we have first signs of severe fatigue to add to the bargain (as per other thread). Lisson sort of in the same position as u, have just changed primaries and new school being kind and supportive and don't want to sour my relationship by pushing them, as missed deadline for extra time in SAT's, I felt we would qualify under section B3 but that would have involved sending in an EP report and there wasn't time. He is not using a laptop in class nor scribe and sense not worth the push with the school. I'm now more concerned about him being too tired to see the whole SAT's programme through.
I think they will think that I'm on the take to ask for rest breaks. I think lisson, my concern is to have everything in order for Secondary, so he doesn't slip through the net, get unfair detentions etc. which would destroy his self-esteem. Have been told no concessions in CAT's tests. EP who did assessments, has wife on exam boards and says with his scores my ds would definately qualify for extra time at GCSE level. I think the problem with SAT's is most parents don't have a diagnosis by then so its not geared up for us. Unfortunately I'm in a worse position though as am having problems with Senco at Secondary stone-walling me, over issues with DS1 who has even worse problems. Still struggling with the shock of having now 2 x DS's to fight for.

I think the statementing, like the interventions, are a postcode lottery.
In our LEA they are highly unlikely to give a statement. The flip side is that we are at a school that provide interventions similar to Moosemama without statements. The school accepted a letter from Paed for giving extra time in exams and this has been agreed with the HT. He is also allowed laptop (tablet tbh) for any amount of work that he finds too onerous. Teacher keeps it in her cupboard on charge so its always available.
What I would say is that different schools and LEAs have differing opinions as to who can dx dyslexia - or rather, who they believe can dx dyslexia. Some LEAs believe only EPs. Thankfully school accepted BO report - and their own common sense (from what I believe on this board to often be lacking in SENcos! )

what exactly is a statement? Is it the same thing as an IEP?

so there are no written rules for who can write acceptable assessment reports? That's crazy!

but if there are no written rules that everyone has to follow, then what is the pink book?

Supermum, ds's statement was hard fought and won. We had to do it ourselves, as not only did the school say he wouldn't get one, they mysteriously suddenly lost all his records at the precise moment we were going to apply. Fortunately I keep a copy of everything, so had enough evidence myself and we have an amazing local ASD inclusion team who were fantastic with helping me. Ds has ASD and extremely high ASD related anxiety which was the primary reason for going for a statement. The inclusion team told me that ASD related statements are like hen's teeth in our area and everyone from top to bottom was gobsmacked when he got one on the first application.

When the statement arrived (after lots of to-ing and fro-ing and fighting about the content and specification/quantification etc) it was quite sobering to read just how bad and complex his needs are. ASD is actually just one aspect of his needs.

He flew through the infants, top of his class without even trying, got 3's across the board in KS1 SATs, then hit year 3 and skidded to a halt. No progress at all in years 3 and 4 (when we started the statementing process) then a spurt with fantastic teachers in year 5 and back to little or no progress this year.

He is expected to scrape a 5c for reading, which according to his teacher is due in part to the speed issue and partly because he is too literal to be able to answer more subtle questions re subtext or character motivation/emotion. For maths we were told repeatedly last year that he absolutely deserved and had earned his place just below the top table for the year (top table is G&T). Then two weeks into this school year the top set teacher made it plain she didn't want him in her group and wouldn't differentiate for him. Then, the week the local Academy refused to take him (and/or any other statemented child ) they moved him down a set, causing him to lose confidence and damaging his self-esteem. Since then he has only been getting 4c's and b's on his maths practice papers. So, he's scraping 2 levels of progress in reading - if he gets a 5c - and nowhere near in maths.

Re, getting help in secondary. One of the most useful things we've done is get ds to learn how to touch type, as once he could type faster than he could write there was no excuse for them not letting him have access to a computer. He used Typing Instructor Platinum last summer and is between 30 and 40 words a minute now. The typing programme is good fun, with lots of typing related games and ds actually enjoyed learning. He did half an hour a day over the summer holidays, so it wasn't onerous. He used the adult typing programme, but they do one for children as well and I believe they also have an online version now as well.

Lisson, a statement is a 'Statement of Special Educational Needs'. IEP's are 'Individual Education Plans' and are not legally binding. The school has absolutely no legal responsibility to provide the support set down in an IEP, but Statements are issued by the Council's Local Education Authority (LEA or LA) and are legally binding. If the school fails to provide the support in the statement, in theory, the LEA can make them provide it or they have to provide it themselves.

There is a document called the SENCOP, SEN Code of Practice, that you may have heard about on here, that sets down proper procedure for Special Educational Needs assessment and support in the UK. All LEAs and schools etc must comply with the SENCOP in relation to matters of Special Educational Needs. You can get hold of a copy of the SENCOP here.

This website may help to explain the SEN system and statements etc.

More information on the system here from IPSEA, which is one of the best UK charities for helping people navigate the SEN system and deal with any problems that might come up.

SOS SEN are another excellent UK charity that help support people through the SEN system.

Hope that helps.

Sorry, I've never heard of the pink book, but I assume perhaps it's something for professionals to do with diagnostic criteria.

@moosemama Thank you for these links and the explanations. It seems to be a minefield!

My own small link contribution:
I just googled the "Pink Book" and found a few links, but there was one on the independent school council's website which linked onto the book itself. It appears the book covers Examination Access Requirements i.e. it clarifies the exact law on being given extra time or special consideration in externally moderated exams i.e. GSCEs (and SATS?)
www.isc.co.uk/Resources/Independent%20Schools%20Council/Documents/Campaigns/Special%20Educational%20Needs/aa-regs-2012-2013.pdf

Not that DS is in the private sector BTW, its just where I found the book.

Hi

Haven't read all the thread. The 'pink' book is the guidance given by JCQ for gcse access arrangements. It doesn't apply for sats. Its very hard to get access arrangements for sats and given the universal crapness of these tests it's not worth the bother.

It may be worth getting him assessed properly and then contact the senco of the secondary school. Look forward. Primary is soon left behind.

The SENCos reaction is odd. I wonder whether the head has had heebie jeebies at her thinking you are going to demand a laptop for him.

I would get your son touch typing as well. Use of pc is an access arrangement as long as it is normal way of working.

We saw a pediatrician this morning who told me that because DS is not doing badly at school, he'll never fall under the SEN department's radar and that an NHS occupational therapist input won't be worth waiting for as they will just send an info pack.
The doctor's recommendation is to get a full assessment done by an educational psychologist and then get a privately paid for occupational therapist on board. He said that this is what he would do for his son.
Additionally, he recommended 25% extra time for exams, possibly a sloping work surface, learning to touch type and maybe using a laptop at school.

He was also very dubious about the wisdom of continuing to go to the handwriting tutor who first suspected the problem.

That's more or less the advice that everyone has given me (and it chimes with the disinterest from the school CT/ SENCO). Thank you all so much.

We've got a few big bills coming up obviously, and we can't really afford it, but we'll give the summer holiday a huge haircut!

As to touch typing, I ordered Nessy Fingers a few days ago because I'd seen good reviews for it. Its in the post on its way to me now. Then I noticed that Typing Instructor Platinum keeps getting mentions on these boards and even recommended on this thread (thanks Moosemama). Have I gone down the wrong route with Nessy fingers or are they as good as each other?