Getting truly desperate with ds- I think I am on the verge of a nervous breakdown.

[popgoestheweezel]

I am just worn to a complete frazzle with ds and his coming out of school meltdowns as well as all the other ones. I can't cope anymore and I'm just crying all the time now. What can I do? I am desperate for some help but I don't know where to turn. Dh is doing his best but is under the same pressures as me. School are asking me to help them with strategies and understanding PDA. My mum & dad are supportive but don't really know what to do. Although my sister lives just around the corner she is too busy in her own life and offers me no support of any kind whatsoever, she won't even really talk to me about him, she just changes the subject.
I just can't deal with it anymore. The other parents must just think it is madness and much as you develop a very thick skin you know that this is effecting everyone's opinion of ds- no wonder he doesn't get invited to play. Ds has one friend and his mum is a complete star and so lovely, they play together at least twice a week. She has taken him home with her tonight cos I don't think I could have got him off school premises by myself, even though the friend came to us last night and it's already planned that ds go there tomorrow, ds can't wait til tomorrow, everything has to be NOW!
He has always had these meltdowns, right from the beginning of reception. It always centres around having someone over or going to someone's house. We have tried after school activities but he just won't engage and it just adds to the stress. He is nearly seven now and it's only getting worse. I don't know what to do.

I would be tempted to stop the playdates or maybe use the playdates as a reward for being good when he comes out of school.

I know with dd2 (ASD) the only thing that works for us is rewards, i have tried taking things away from her (favorite toys) and she doesn't care. A few weeks ago dd2 was refusing to go to school, we had lots of meltdown and for a while i thought we would never be able to get her into school but we now use a reward system, to begin with she got a reward every day but now she is earning pasta (to put in a jar) to get a bigger reward when its full up.

I know each child is different so this may not work for you, its a case of finding what works (can take a while).

I really feel for you.

My dd is in reception and has the leaving school meltdowns.

With the school tell them to go onto amazon and buy the book

understanding Pathalogical demand avoidance syndrome in children by Christie et al

It's for parents, teachers and other professionals.

As for the rest of it... I wish I had the right words for you. I really do.
Keep posting/venting we are here...

I would stop the after school playing. Keep this to the weekend. Could you organise for him to 'help' in the classroom, perhaps involving a repetitive activity like stacking chairs or counting pens until the other kids have left then you go and pick him up or, if he doesn't like ou on school premies, have him bought out to you.

We dont do after school playdates either. Dd3 is exhausted and peopled out when she comes out of school. I always take her a drink and snack and try to walk home if possible as this is a good calming down time.

I never ask her about school, in fact I rarely used to speak to her about school at all. She is more open about it now that she is more settled. I generally wait for her to tell me what she has been upto especially if she is stressy.

Is there a parents support group in your area? Some people dont like them but they can be a great way to get to know people in the same situation as you and to share tips.

Good luck

I've given the school the understanding PDA book and the teacher has read it and now the head is having a turn. They are still trying to find their feet with it (we are too and we've known for two years!)
Rewards have always exacerbated the problems because that just adds another demand of compliance and his will is so much stronger than anyone else's- it really, really is! But maybe I could try it... I just don't know if I have the strength to face it though.
I have always picked him up last (I wait around the corner until the other children have gone, but sometimes there is a straggler whose parents are extra late or the mums are standing round chatting.
I think the idea of doing something while everyone else is picked up might work. I will think that one through.

I can't cope at the moment and I can't even think straight. I just wish for once someone in RL could throw me a lifeline here and actually come up with something that would help sort the problems.
I really hope that we are having a testosterone surge and things will settle down, I do try to remain positive and proactive and see that there is light at the end of the tunnel but in my darker moments I think maybe we are only just at the start of the tunnel and it might only get longer and darker...

Where abouts are you pop, if you dont mind saying someone might be close enough to help.

Try to be kind to yourself.

we are east mids, but I wonder if what we really need is regular paid help. We have tried after school club and it worked for a while but the few sessions he's been to since christmas have been difficult for him. What he really wants is
We have tried beavers and swimming classes but he just can't cope with the demands and would not join in even though we stuck with beavers for 6 wks and swimming for 9, it was still just a complete nightmare and so stressful for everyone. I am looking for an art group as I think that will be a lot less directive so he might be able to engage with it but can't seem to find any with spaces around here.

I know a few people who get direct payments and use them to pay someone to take their child out, or to do stuff with them at home while the rest of the family get a break. Would that be an option for you?

Will have a think to see if I can come up with any better ideas.

Thinking about paid help, it just wouldn't work- no one would be able to handle him.
Maybe we go back to after school club? The last times he went he cried at school and was difficult to get onto the bus. He comes back with tales of other children being mean to him (only his perception I am sure cos in his eyes not doing exactly as he dictates is not being nice) and when we pick up he gets angry anyway. Even though we always leave collection till the last minute and the staff all have their coats on and are switching the lights off it's still difficult to get him out, last time he screamed and shouted because the computer got turned off, kicked a chair so it hit the

No one wants to come to play with him except the one friend (I am so very very grateful for that), no one wants to babysit for us (I have about five older teenagers to ask all of whom used to be keen to do it but now I generally get 'sorry I'm busy' every time). I am embarrassed when we go round to other people's houses cos although his behaviour is much better when he is in a group of children, it is still pretty/very bad (I can't even work out now how bad he is compared to other children, dd is a very responsible, caring and polite 9yr old and I guess she is at the opposite end of the behaviour spectrum). On sunday we went to some friends for lunch and he had to have about 5 timeouts and dozens of interventions, he hurt their children several times and its just not relaxing at all for us.

After school is often the time children collapse. I'm on the road from school, and I often witness screaming 4-6 year olds on their way home, with frazzled parents.

The first step is a snack and drink immediately he comes out. That serves as a distraction if a child is wound up. Then maybe routine should not consist of playdates for time being unless they are always the same day of the week (ie: he can know that wednesday is playdate day) Other thing I found was that other people's slightly unreliable arrangements were lethal. For example if a child was sick and ds2 was expecting him, he had no ability to empathize with sick child, just felt distraught that playdate was cancelled. So avoid anything adhoc.

I wonder whether both my sons were quite unusual because I never expected them to have people round at that age; they were too busy recovering from school day! And only once in a while nowadays. And they seem to prefer that way, and v few meltdowns as a result. Whereas a lot of little girls were visiting each other all the time. Perhaps what you see as normal is less normal in some families? He has had whole day socializing. Home could be a fun place to retreat to, in its own way.

So I think reduce the demands on both of you, and try and enjoy time together a bit more as a starting point. Then you might find he is more able to cope. My children are now 10 and 12 (3 kids). Playdates are so much less of big deal.

He does genuinely enjoy play dates and they bring a lot of pleasure to his life (which is sadly lacking because he is so anxious most of the time.
I think maybe I should consider anti depressants, I've always thought of them as the last resort. My mum was on them some years ago and she said they made her emotionless so she couldn't feel anything. I would prefer a practical solution to make life easier for us and happier for him- that's like the holy grail though isn't it?

He only sees school as a place of demands and coercion and the playground has always been a big challenge for him. He enjoys 1-1 playdates very much and like I say, they seem to be one of the few things that give him pleasure, mainly because ds and his friend are very well suited and nearly always play well together.
ds always functions best if there are no plans made and everything just unfolds. If he knew he had a playdate on a particular day he would be stropping every five minutes until it happened. He has been stropping on and off about his birthday not being here yet since christmas and it's not until the end of april.

Everything you say sounds massively familiar from my experience of ds2. Yet we don't have these problems any more really, because we don't put ourselves in those situations(v often We know that ds2 finds large family parties challenging, we make sure there is either a telly or a park nearby! We never expect him to manage at other people's houses, unless he goes by himself with one other playmate (2 doesn't work). Yet he plays very happily with two friends 1:1 and never gets in a state. He is brilliant on expeditions (if you don't get stuck in a queue!) and loves visits,theatre, outings, travel to new places, just we have to tailor make things to preserve equiliibrium. As I say he is 10. We have learnt not to push our luck. People keep pushing US to be more flexible, stay longer, stay up later, bring him to somethign unsuitable but we know it won't work unless we are very careful and think ahead of pitfalls.
Babysitting was difficult until I found someone who made a point of making friends with ds2, and doing special things with him, football, board games, lego, chatting. He then loved her looking after him.

Often children get this idea about "playdates" as a desirable commodity when as another poster said, they don't really enjoy them much if they are wrong sort of setting. It does get better, if you adjust to AS type sensitivities rather than change him except by careful "modification" rather than overexposure type socialization which really imo doesn't work.

I recently sent ds2 (ASD) at 9 to outward bound course for 4days residential with his classmates, all in countryside setting, hikes, walks, rafting etc. I was really worried,but he had a lovely time, and was perfectly happy, not teased none of probs he had experienced sometimes in playground, which goes to show that sometimes the settng makes a real diff their reactions. HTH, it will get better not worse. I know you will manage brilliantly.

And one more tip, no comparisons with dd!

Then the school has to be a lot more proactive if they are creating the anxiety. What sort of demands could they slacken off. It is horrible that you should have to be considering antidepressants just because SCHOOL is making him anxious. They should be MUCH MORE PROACTIVE about reducing his stress. Nurture room at break, person to get support from, supervision in break with structured play. I would go to GP if I was you, with support of school immediately. It will take forever for anything to happen with any referral so you might as well start now It took me 3 years from first misgivings to something being diagnosed.

Ooh, that sounds familiar When DS (who has Asperger?s) started school he we had a 10-minute walk home but it used to take us an hour of screaming rage. Actually it can get better - DS is now 14 and has just taken himself off to his weekly swimming lesson (which he has one-to-one). But it can take time, and maybe some outside help too?

I?m not quite clear ? does your DS have a diagnosis? If he?s diagnosed with PDA that can be an issue as it?s a relatively new category, not many people know much about it. And apologies in advance if I?m stating the obvious but have you had a look at the National Autistic Society website, or given NAS a call? They do have a lot of ideas and suggestions, and they consider PDA to be on the autism-spectrum, so some of the same strategies people use for high-functioning autism or Asperger?s Syndrome should work.

Have you checked out Disability Living Allowance for your son? It?s a horrendous form to fill in but it?s a really good benefit to get, it isn?t means tested and you can spend it on anything at all that would help your son - like a one-to-one swimming lesson, or an after-school carer.

Because of his tantrums and aggression I really needed whoever cared for my son to have proper training. Ordinary babysitters couldn?t cut it. I found a sitter for DS via a special-needs playscheme that DS attended ? I asked one of the (trained) carers if she was interested, and she agreed to come once a week. In some places there are agencies and charities who may be able to find someone for you. Sorry I can?t be more specific but what?s available varies hugely from place to place.

Also, could you call social services and ask for an assessment? Where I live parents have the right to ask for an assessment of needs. Social services are the gatekeepers for some good resources like playschemes and specialist after-school care. Maybe you could get a supported place in the after-school club for your DS once or twice week? It took a long to me to set up but we eventually got a funded place in DS?s school club to have an extra carer to support him, and some training for the club workers on how to manage him. Getting it set up was complicated and involved a certain amount of luck. Also there are charities who may have local schemes set up, try NAS or other local charities who support kids with disabilities.

Your LEA might have some support and advice for schools who are managing kids with particular needs? You shouldn?t really have to be telling them what to do (although I remember advising my son?s school to begin with!) they should have resources of their own. Have a look at your LEA?s website and see if they have anyone the school could call on ? sometimes parents can be the ones who ask for help, sometimes the school needs to ask.

Also kids can be really frazzled and exhausted after school. My DS couldn?t really cope with after-school activities at that age, he was people?d out just with the effort of school. So we spent time together or he was by himself ? I read to him, he watched telly, we might go out for a walk.

I found it took a long time and a lot of effort just to figure out who might be able to help us, and even longer to get the help in place, but life did start to get better once we?d got a few things in place for him. Hope it gets better for you soon!

Yep, we run out of the playground, and no play dates cos its too much trauma mostly, and just causes hassle. Dumped swimming, after school clubs etc too. Straight home, drink, computer.

If you were going to keep them, perhaps stick to a certain night only, so it's all pre-planned (eg tues is x's house, thurs is x at ours)

Ds was refered two years ago to the comm paed who we have now seen 3 times. The prob has been that typically for PDA, his behaviour at school has been fairly ok. He had issues in reception but they said he was very young. In yr 1 he attended a social communication group and they said that he was clearly not typically autistic (which is true). He also ended up having four diff teachers over the year so no one had a chance to get to know him.
This year his teacher is very experienced and at the start reassured us that she would get him sorted out. Yet, soon began to realise he was not like any other child she had ever taught before. We wrote to the new head and finally he has been assessed by the ed psych and in the last few weeks school have acknowledged that PDA is a very good explanation for his difficulties.

Sorry to dismiss all your totally reasonable suggestions but we are talking about pda here so all logic and normal parenting strategies are worse than useless! If we stop the play dates We will have meltdowns every night instead of just the nights with no play date. If we stick to a routine he will be stropping every minute while he's waiting until the next one. If we institute a reward system he will go ballistic. Believe me, we have tried all these things again and again. The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result.

I find that it is much easier to have play dates in the week rather than at the weekend. At the weekend we will get stropping all morning until the friend comes and then a freak out when it's time for the friend to go home. At least during the week he accepts the natural constraints of arrive after school and go home after tea.