What, if anything, should I say to this primary SENCO?

[StarlightMcKenzie]

She works on Saturdays at local shop so I have got to know her over a few months. Not very well, but enough to know that she is a senco, and for her to know that ds attends a special school. She has never seen ds though.

In one of our chit chat non-conversations, she asked how ds was and then mentioned that in her school there is a child with ASD in reception who was non-verbal. She looked genuinely stressed about the topic as she explained that the parents aren't taking the hint that he should be taken out of that school and put into a special school. She said that the school would really support them with that move, and spoke about how it was impossible to teach the rest of the class with that child being so disruptive.

Now this is the first time I have heard the 'other side' from a genuine and honest stance. I don't have any sympathy at all. I think the school should get the child a statement with ABA written in it, a competent TA and continue to support him.

I'm so angry about this I can't go in the shop again. I do however realise that this SENCO may well be as crap as she sounds, but is quite representative, and it isn't her support she doesn't know what the right thing to do is.

WWYD?

btw, I don't know which school she works at and she hasn't told me, and I don't have any details about the child or family.

"But part of me thinks WHY should DS be segregated because the system is crap"

It isn't segregation to educate a group of children whose needs are benefited by it in one setting which is resourced for them.

DD1 could not survive MS. She would need a support worker with her at all times, she would be out of the class as much as she was in. She would not get the essential time to promote her gross motor skills and by consequence, her fine motor skills.

I agree that there are many children who should be able to access MS education as long as provision was properly applied.

But Lougle that is my point - I have tried to say it's horses for courses.

In my son's case, I feel it would be segregation for the benefit of a system which should but won't cope with supporting him.

In your case, it is the only option because of your child's needs.

britta I think your sis might be the senco at Dd3's school. She is an amazing person.

Am I wrong to want the best of both worlds for Dd3?

She is academically able but needs to be understood and carefully nurtured at school. I cant see that she is going to get what she needs at our massive local secondary but there are no suitable SS in the area. It is a horrible situation to be in

Yes, Ineedmorepatience, it is the situation we face too.

My friend ended up sending her DS to a unit for kids with AS and he can only take 5 GCSEs.

Now other parents have different problems and GCSEs may be the last thing on their list of worries but why would I accept that for DS at 11?

I suppose the reason I'm gutted is that ds has a profile that means he will have probably NO support as an adult, and the more practice he has mixing and being a part of mainstream society is an essential education for him that he is currently being denied.

He needs to come up against the mainstream world, in a carefully controlled way and with support, because an an adult he will be expected to cope with it.

But I want ds' education to prepare him for his future needs. The public purse wants him simply 'dealt with' as he presents now.

I understand that, Star. DD1 may well get no support as an adult - well, no support that isn't provided by her parents . My take on it is that if she is nurtured to her full potential in SS, then she has a hope in the world. If she's babysat through MS, she's going to have a big old shock when that's gone at 18.

I think, for DD1 it will be social issues that dictate any support. She may or may not learn to read enough to get by - at the moment it's stalling because she's learning by whole word recognition and struggling with phonics. She may or may not develop skills enough to write - her fine motor skills are too weak right now to do that effectively, but there is time.

My concern is that she doesn't seem to have any stranger danger, still. She will still go with anyone, do whatever they say. She is still incredibly impulsive. It's those things that will be her 'danger' as she grows. Time will tell.

I'm dreading the transistion to adult services - she's a prime candidate for 'mind the gap'.

Yes Lougle. I don't believe that his potential will be fulfilled in his current placement alone. But I DO feel that he has a better chance at it than in a mainstream school with progressive cuts, climate of disability hate attitudes, stressed out teachers with increasingly low moral and headteachers who paper over the cracks of the system by avoiding anything that might make them accountable.

"nurtured to her full potential"

That is what it is about isn't it? Whether this is done at a SS or mainstream depends entirely on the child and the school.

My point is only that this decision shouldn't (although it often is and in the case of this SENCO appears to be) be driven solely by what a mainstream school can be bothered to do.

Yes Lougle I think the gap is getting bigger too. It's a very scary thought.

The gap is already frightening.

DD1 looks fairly normal. Yes, if you are expert you can look at the way she holds her hands and see the slightly low tone. Yes, she has a slightly flat nasal bridge. Her gait is 'interesting'.

DD1 can sound quite convincing. Her latest 'lifted' phrases are 'bsides' 'for startis' 'anyway, you should'o...' 'bythewayyyy....' It makes her sound quite sophisticated.

DD1 is sociable and can turn the hardest heart to butter. But that isn't going to help her when someone manipulates her into giving them her last penny, is it?

The gap between my son and his peers in terms of social skills already significant. He is more like a 5 year old emotionally than a 10 year old.

The gap between his academic ability and social and communication skills is also very large yet, perniciously, one disguises the other so readily : and thus his vulnerability also.

Two thirds of children with my son's profile end up with secondary mood disorders in their teenage years.

I have yet to see a school that will support all of this without compromising his potential. And I am not sure surrendering one set of skills for the sake of the other is the way to go.

At present, for him, all I see on offer is visual timetables and generic 'life skills' provision and a lowering of academic expectations which bear no relation to who he is or who he could become.

Inapprop There is no right or wrong to this whole issue but I have decided to always prioritise DS' self esteem above everything else.

He is in a school that promotes that and the staff really care about him and like him.

The academic stuff is important, but I know that the academic stuff is also easier to address in later years, than mental health.

I know this because I left school with no qualifications, yet picked them up when I wanted them. Though my lack of them was BECAUSE of poor self esteem

Meant to add, therefore, that I had to address both lack of academic qualifications AND self-esteem/mental health, and I know which one was harder.

Have to agree with star here.
(Yes I tried to give up MN for lent and have failed abysmally :))
I both home achooled and then moved ds1 into a small village school with a poor ofsted rating due to self esteem issues and metal health issues.
Both have been the right thing to do, totally.
As you say, academic quals can be done anytime.
But MH issues can blight your life for all your life.
Not all kids are cut out to be doctors or lawyers or "academic" in the traditional sense.
Accepting that doesn't mean you are falling your child!

But I am really not trying to argue that one position is right or wrong so there is no need to 'take sides' Badvoc.

I don't understand why anyone is interpreting what I am saying as a challenge to their decision to send their child to a special school.

I have consistently said that what is right or wrong will depend on the child, the parents and the school.

However, Star's original post was about a school senco who wanted to shunt a kid to special school against their parents' wishes because the school didn't want to have to deal with the child. The suggestion from the senco was that the parents were the problem.

I do not know why my comments have been read as suggesting that you should ever prioritise academic interests over mental health issues. I have never suggested that.

All I am saying is that you should not necessarily have to forego one for the other and that finding the right school for a bright 10 year old with Asperger's is not as easy as mainstream bad and SS good or vice versa.

My son is 10. That makes a difference. Part of his self-esteem is wrapped up in not being made to be differen and being part of his peer group. This wasn't the case at 5 or 7 or even 9. It is now.

If he wants to be with his peers, but he is different from them. His mental health is improved by doing well academically but reduced by the stress of school.

I don't care what label you attach to a school, it is the quality of provision he gets which will make the difference. I have yet to see a school which is able to cope with his profile and the reality is that I will have to create the provision he needs whatever type of school he goes too.

Not taking sides.
Just agreeing with star.

...and my son doesn't go to a SS?
Crating provision is all well and good (and as his parent you will have a far better idea if his needs and issues than a teacher of LA) but it can mean banning ones head against a brick wall, and just ending up with a headache :(
I am very lazy.
I just opted out of his last provision. HE is not for the faint hearted though:)
Don't know what will happen in the future - ds moves up to middle school in sept :( - but I know I have done the best I could and provided him with the best start to transition that I can.

I took your comments, and Stars, to suggest that I was somehow saying that academic issues are more important than mental health issues.

My view is that I am not prepared to sacrifice either my son's mental health or his academic ability. No one else has too for their children.

When I fail him is when I allow the system to compromise either one of those as both will affect his self-esteem.

But my child is not yours or anyone else's and we fight our own battles.

I am sure you have and I have HE'd too when I needed too.

But I will not stop banging my head, whether it is a brick wall or not, because he has a right to be treated equally and that is my battle to fight, not his.

Wrt the Senco star is posting about...I would have deep misgivings about a any school employee discussing a child with anyone but that child's parents and in public too!!
Awful.
And surely you know by now Inappropriately, that it is ALWAYS the parents fault!

"Star's original post was about a school senco who wanted to shunt a kid to special school against their parents' wishes because the school didn't want to have to deal with the child. The suggestion from the senco was that the parents were the problem."

It's fascinating, how we interpret situations because of our experiences. What Star said was:

"she explained that the parents aren't taking the hint that he should be taken out of that school and put into a special school. She said that the school would really support them with that move, and spoke about how it was impossible to teach the rest of the class with that child being so disruptive."

DD1 was that child. Which is absolutely bizarre, really, as her latest review boasts that she is a joy to have, that she is not only able to get her own resources but sorts other children out too, how responsible, empathetic and helpful DD1 is in 'tricky situations' and 'who needs 3LSAs when I have DD1??'

In MS preschool, DD1 would run around wildly. Her LSA would try to entertain her. She would break free and screech,etc. If that didn't work, she would run up to a teacher, hit her, and then run away giggling.

I agree that schools should meet the needs of children in their setting, if they have the resources to do so. But, there is provision in the SEN CoP for a forced move to SS if the education of that child is incompatible with the education of other children.

Obviously, we can't tell if that child falls into that category. It was deeply unprofessional of her to speak to Star about that, at any rate. We can't be sure that the SENCO is wrong here, though, either.

Sorry, inappropriately, my comment about interpretation sounds passive agressive - it honestly wasn't intended that way. I was genuinely fascinated that we all read the same sentence differently

I took exception to the 'segregation' comment, but didn't accurately filter the fact that you were talking of your perception of the situation regarding your DS. I thought you meant that SS in general was 'segregation'.