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Feeling down row brewing with partner re ss vs mainstream

39 replies

autumnsmum · 07/01/2013 17:31

Hello belated happy new year to everyone just need some handholding pls.myy
Dd 3 has autism and cognitive impairment, she is going through statutory assessment at the moment.as I have previously posted I have visited a ss which I think would be perfect for her , however dp who has agoraphobia and depression is hellbent on her attending a mainstream unit .i don't think this the right place for dd also transport isn't provided which is for ss I also have a son who attends a different school to the unit so I don't know how I'm supposed to get them both to school at the same time. Anyway sorry for the rant its just I'm having sleepless nights worrying bout this and it's causing huge stresses in our relationship thanks for reading just needed to vent.

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YourHandInMyHand · 07/01/2013 17:37

Can you pick a calm moment to ask him to open up about why he is so against SS?

I had similar with my ex at one point when DS was really struggling in mainstream. After his initial response which was VERY anti-SS I asked him what his reservations were and he opened up about it. He struggled with it due to his own childhood experiences of who he thought SS were for and the stigma attached to them back them. He did eventually change his mind. Ironically DS then settled in at mainstream Hmm Grin. Am glad we had the opportunity to chat calmly though and now have discussed the pros and cons of each type of school.

If it is too heated between the 2 of you to talk about it is there anyone else he can chat to?

Does he go out at all, or is his agoraphobia just too severe? It's a shame he can't go see the school really.

Ineedmorepatience · 07/01/2013 19:22

Does the special school have a decent website?? They sometimes do. Maybe your DP would get more idea of what would be on offer if he could see it for himself.

Fwiw, I have friends with dc's at special school and they are doing really well and have a fab time, certainly not stuck in the corner with a box of lego if thats what he thinks!!

StarlightMcKenzie · 07/01/2013 20:18

IMO, a child with SN in a special school is 'taught'. In a ms school they are usually just ignored or babysat

BeeMom · 08/01/2013 01:32

Starlight I totally agree! Bee spent her first year in a MS with 2:1 (she had 2 professionals with her at all times - her aide and her nurse). She was in the classroom less than 1/2 the time and accomplished a flat zero learning in a class of 27. She had no interaction with her peers and was surrounded by adults.

In her second year, she was placed in a class in the same school, but in a developmental unit. She was one of 5 or 6 children in the class, most fragile medically, but most advanced developmentally. The kids ranged from 5 (Bee) to 13 and again, no learning occurred.

When we moved, the LA had no appropriate placement for her, and offered us a place for her in a "self-contained" class. There were 2 SC classes at the school, one for "emotionally and behaviourally challenged" students (a mix of ASD and DD, with severe impulse control mixed in for good measure) or the "physio room" which they wanted to place Bee in. In that class, she would have been the only educable, verbal member, all the other children required total care and were only minimally interactive. It was at the meeting we saw these options that one more was dropped in our laps.

Bee is now in a "hospital school". She is learning, and is nearly at grade level for reading, is learning to spell, we are working on her social, developmental, physical, emotional AND educational needs, and have therapists available regularly. We are determining what technology support she requires to succeed. For the first time, we can see a future for her educationally that was totally absent prior to this.

A specialist school is not where children with exceptional needs are warehoused and sit in the corner sticking crayons up their noses. In the right setting, even the most challenged child can blossom.

Here is a piece I wrote after spending a day at Bee's school ... perhaps your DP will read it and at least be willing to reconsider. It is worth noting that, if he is dead set to have her in a MS unit, perhaps this could be a long term goal in her IEP...

autumnsmum · 08/01/2013 09:52

Thanks everyone it kicked off last night with dp he is adamant I just feel this situation is impossible

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Vagaceratops · 08/01/2013 11:39

What are his objections?

I have to say that if it came down to a choice between doing the best for my child and keeping my DH happy In know what I would be doing.

autumnsmum · 08/01/2013 11:57

Vag he says she needs normal role models and don't worry I will do what's best for dd

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StarlightMcKenzie · 08/01/2013 12:38

If she coukd learn from peers she wouldn't have a Dx of ASD.

She needs an ASD specific education and imitation needs to be taught. If you can get in early with the specialist intervention you reduce the widening of the gap, and 'may' be able to return to ms.

BeeMom · 08/01/2013 13:49

The major challenge is that children with ASD learn with massive repetition and learn through imitation. In MS, you (and more importantly, DP) will have no control of the influences upon your DD.

The MS environment is likely to contain at least a couple/few children with undiagnosed or unsupported SN, and there is a good chance that that child's behaviour is going to be the one that your dd latches on to and imitates. In a less "structured" setting (because really, keeping structure in a class of 30 4 year olds is kind of like herding cats) the influences that DD is under will be varied, and possibly destructive. Add to that the classroom "environment" which has become busier and busier (things hanging and swaying from the ceiling, walls decorated with a million things) and you are setting her up for failure.

I wish you all the best - this is truly a BIG struggle.

Toni27 · 08/01/2013 14:49

So are you all saying that mainstream school is damaging to asd children? Our son was recently diagnosed with moderate asd, he is 4 at the end of march. We are currently applying for a statement and we thought that he would be best going to ms primary school in September, and give him a chance and see how he gets on, and only consider special schools if ms primary school didn't work out for whatever reason. I was hoping that by putting him in a setting where all the children were interacting would be good for him rather than in a setting where the other children also had interaction problems and may not attempt to join in with him but after reading this thread it seems that maybe I am wrong? I am so aware that the right help at the right time ie early intervention is vital for our sons development. He currently goes to a mainstream nursery and has made massive progress there in joining in with activities and his language has improved dramatically although it is still very behind for his age. All the children at nursery love him and are happy to play alongside him even if he does not respond to them most of the time (verbally). But at his 6week long assessment for autism the other children he was with were also autistic and our sons new language and interaction skills quickly declined, I guessed because he wasn't being pushed by his peers to use them, and when he returned to his usual nursery he quickly started joining in and tAlking again in fact better than ever. But there is always a niggling doubt with me over whether he should be going to mainstream or special school in September, seems the general feeling on this thread is that special school will offer him much better help? Sorry for the long post :)

sickofsocalledexperts · 08/01/2013 15:13

I am actually a big believer in trying mainstream first, particularly with ABA trained LSAs and with commitment on all sides to the child following a differentiated curriculum. It's a mainstream world out there, after all.

PoshCat · 08/01/2013 15:21

Although my DD doesn't have an official diagnosis of ASD she definitely has traits including severe speech delay and social interaction problems. She started mainstream last September as a just turned 4 yr old. She loves it, lots of her classmates describe her as their friend, she has teaching assistant support for 2.4 hrs a day who helps her interact with her peers. Her speech has also improved.

For now mainstream seems to be working for her.

PoshCat · 08/01/2013 15:24

I would add she also has speech therapy sessions either individually or with another child with speech issues.
She is currently on action + and the school will support us in applying for a Statement,/should DD continue to need this level or a greater level of assistance in Yr 1 and beyond.

StarlightMcKenzie · 08/01/2013 15:48

Toni No. I don't think that children with ASD can't be catered for and learn in a ms envinroment. In fact, I'd say that the peers were ideal. Unfortunately though, the expertise often just isn't there to make use of it.

If your child currently attends a school where he is happy, accepted, learning, rewarded for his social motivation and has staff experienced enough and with enough TIME allocated to ensure that he gets the opportunities that MS presents then this will be the best place for him, hands down.

It's just that IME (of 4 ms schools before the age of 6 for a pretty HF child), what I have written above just doesn't happen. MS schools just don't allocate resources until a child gives THEM problems. By which time the learning opportunities are over as the peers have matured beyond the maturity of the child with ASD and what would be useful for the child with ASD to model.

You cannot assume that simply being amongst children in MS, they will learn social behaviour. It needs to be taught in whatever setting the child attends, and very rarely do MS TA have that level of expertise, or even the class teachers for that matter. But if you have found somewhere that does, my god, cling on for as long as possible.

autumnsmum · 08/01/2013 17:58

Thanks again everyone my dd is being statemented and she has limited speech and v poor concentration .i feel that in a ss she would get the help she needs also in a term at nursery she has sadly not interacted with the other children at all so I feel his argument about the peer group is sadly irrelevant.also he has his mum who is in total denial on his dide

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sickofsocalledexperts · 08/01/2013 19:13

Just in the interest of balance, I would say there are a lot of extremely poor SS out there, which babysit rather than teach. I visited a fair few which felt pretty much like holding pens, with nursery rhymes. Expectations are low and kids don't achieve much. You need to research your choice very well, whichever route you choose.

Cheeseswept · 08/01/2013 19:26

Agree with Star. We only got full time support when ds's behaviour and anxiety was such that they had to do something. I do really think that the more trouble a child is for the school the more likely they are to be proactive at getting the right support. It shouldn't be like that but it has been at all the schools ds has been at so far. We have only recently got a dx and he is going to be shortly starting at a specialist independent school but is almost a teenager. I often wonder what a difference early intervention and support would have made to his life at school. Yes, ideally ms would be best but sometimes it's just not possible and I am hopeful that expert support now can undo some of the damage caused by the lack of understanding and experience in the past.

willowthecat · 08/01/2013 19:27

Special Schools like Mainstream schools vary enormously so it's hard to generalise - they are good bad and indifferent like all schools. ds1 is in an acceptable special school now which has some expectations and some means to achieve them but the one we fought to get him out of had very low expectations and did not work very effectively to achieve even those low expectations - but all experiences are personal and in the end no one except you is really going to look into all the angles.

Cheeseswept · 08/01/2013 19:31

Oh and my dh was very against ss schools at first as he didn't think ds needed that level of support. Also have lots of family members querying why he needs to be in 'that kind of environment' when 'he's not that bad really'. He is unable to stay in ms though and has now been permanently excluded with nowhere in the county suitable. I have to point out that though that he wouldn't be going there if the LA thought there was anywhere else suitable for his needs which was cheaper.

sickofsocalledexperts · 08/01/2013 19:34

I wish really that I had the energy/drive /ability to start a Uk network of mainstream autism units, using ABA techniques. To me, that would be the perfect combo, and the right balance of inclusion and specialism.

StarlightMcKenzie · 08/01/2013 20:35

I'd love to be part of that revolution.

autumnsmum · 08/01/2013 20:37

The ss is rated by ofsted as outstanding one mainstream with a unit is in special measures and the other is satisfactory .i really don't want either mainstream

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StarlightMcKenzie · 08/01/2013 20:44

I really wouldn't take any notice of Ofsted. They know feck all about SN.

marchduck · 08/01/2013 21:36

autumnsmum, sorry to hear that things are so stressful for you now, hope that you get it sorted out soon (and that your DH and his mum start listening to you!)

BeeMom · 08/01/2013 21:42

I agree again with Starlight. In Bee's case, we tried MS, and at the review meeting in March, we were ready to float the idea that she was not adequately supported (despite her 2-1, she was not learning in that educational environment) - the team wanted to float the exact same thing. In the MS developmental unit, she still was not in the right environment.

So, for us, we tried and did not succeed - this is only our story, and we are still hoping to get Bee back to MS at some point, if and when the circumstances dictate that she is ready.