Help, what's like dyspraxia that isn't?

[SantasHugandRollintheSnow]

Also posted in special educational needs.

Just that really.

Ds1 has a long list of issues which point to dyspraxia (will type list below my post so people don't have to read it if they don't want to).

He's being referred for SALT through school but after a chat with his teacher we agreed it was a good idea to get a referral for dyspraxia testing.

Went to the dr today who is referring him to a paediatrician as the list is so long to rule out any other causes. She skirted around the issue and didn't give me any indication of what "other things" it could be.

Does anyone have any experience with this or should I get back on the case as the referral could take a long time?

He's 4.8 and the very long list is below.

The symptoms are:

Noticed by school;

Finds it difficult to sit still for long periods of time, often fidgety and only recently able to cross legs.

Used to get very emotional when asked to try and put his own coat, shoes etc on. This has improved but can still get frustrated.

Moves at speed across classroom flapping hands. Unsteady on feet and bumps into classroom furniture.

Been referred to SALT as he has difficulty following instructions, understanding complex sentences, he is difficult to understand and his speech sounds are immature (missing out verbs).

We have noticed (some may overlap with above)

Gross motor skills all behind, still cannot skip, hop on right foot (can on left) or pedal a trike/bike.

Potty trained v. Late (3.7 yrs) and still has frequent wetting accidents.

Fine motor skills behind, cannot tie a scarf, do up or undo buttons, struggles with zips only learned how to dress recently (since August for most, October for coat, socks and shoes).

Movement issues, very clumsy, poor spacial awareness, fidgety, arms flap when excited, falls off chairs.

Speech behind, very shrill high pitched scream when excited, cannot vocalise what he wants.

Behaviour, still prone to tantrums, cannot use knife or scissors, struggles to accept new things or changes to routine, very sensitive but highly emotionally intelligent.

Sorry for the epic list!

Hi I am not really sure about what else it could be so may not be able to answer your question but just wanted to say

That my son has severe dyspraxia and the description of your son could be used to describe my own son. He is now 13. He was diagnosed at 6. I initially waited a while for him to be seen but once the ball was rolling, official diagnosis came quick which led to all sorts being put in place.

Good luck

hi some of ur sons symtoms are similar to my son he is 5yr and in a speech and language base school! he startd in august,my son speech is he is missing end of words and once he goes into sentences it is easy to lose him,his speech therapist says he has signs of verbal dyspraxia,he is very clumsy and his balance and co-ordination are not great but his OT thinks it cld be more sensry as he hates loud noises and has movment difficutlies and petrified of falling,i have been waiting 6mnths on a paedatrician appoinment and goin to go bk to gp after christmas to chase it up! i found OT helped loads with his dressing and eating and gave us tips on getting special scissors for him and caring cutlery this has helped loads too!i would recommend asking the school for help of the occupational therapy as thy work with u at home and with school!

Other things could obviously be the autistic spectrum.

The developmental paed will go through milestones and life history, and take into account other professionals assessments (ot, SLT etc) and refer him to others as appropriate.

Who said it 'isn't' dyspraxia btw?

So many things - sensory issues, motor problems, cognitive stuff. Honestly, a lot of kids like this aren't straightforward at all, and the important thingis to put in place the support that is required for areas they struggle with (eg the OT) rather than definitively dx.

Ds wasn't dx until 10.

Many things on your list could be caused by being on the autistic spectrum. My son has pretty much all those on your list and has Aspergers. I initially thought he may have had dyspraxia.

Thanks all for your replies.

It was the fact the gp said she was referring to a paediatrician to rule out other causes before exploring dyspraxia. I know they're just doing their job but its hard for us to do all this waiting, all the while ds is getting frustrated and struggling with basic daily tasks without even being told what else it could be.

Excuse me being ignorant but I thought if it was aspergers or asd he wouldn't be as loving. He loves cuddles and kisses, if anyone in school is upset he's the one who goes over to give them a cuddle etc. is that not the case? I don't really know enough about it but don't want to do too much reading up until we know what were dealing with.

Do you think I should get the educational psychologist involved while we're waiting for the paed or should we wait for them to see him first whenever that will be

My son is the cuddlies little boy you'll ever meet, and loves giving me kisses. One of his favourite games at school is 'cuddle attack' where he cuddles his friends. He has Aspergers too.

Educational psychologist doesn't need a diagnosis to offer help so yes I'd ask for EP involvement.

Brilliant. Sorry, I did say I was ignorant .

His teacher is really supportive and wrote a letter for us to take to the gp and it was her who referred for SALT so will ask her for a joint meeting with the SEN coordinator to get the ball rolling.

My ds2 is 4.5 years, we were referred to the community paeds when I contacted my Hv with regard to concerns for ds2 in Feb this year and I suggested dyspraxia as a concern of mine ( family history etc). So far we have been referred to the OT, who then referred us to SALT and now after a second visit with the OT, this time seeing ds2 in his school setting and without me present, I have just spoken to the OT today and we have a referral to CEEPOC (sp?).
Ds2's teacher spoke to me yesterday and said there are concerns, especially socially, for him as he is now quite far part from his peers in terms of social development. It is a long process and I have no idea what the outcome will be, but at least if you have the school on side I am sure that will help.
I am feeling very sad about it all today, but I remain convinced that even if in the long run this all turns out to be a waste of time and he just needs to mature a bit, I have done the right thing. Some o the things on the list describe my ds2. He can peddle a bike mostly though, but lacks concentration, rarely sits still, can only process something if his attention is gained and held (so mainly on a one to one), can not dress himself properly (but can unbutton a shirt, although it take s a very long time). Good luck with it all.

Firstly - the teacher should not have implied that it is dyspraxia. It's not her judgement to make - she is a teacher, not a paed. I realise she may think she is being helpful, but it simply is not for her to offer a possible diagnosis. She should be looking at what support they can offer for his needs - which she can do NOW. She doesn't need a diagnosis for that.

Secondly - EP again can assist in assessing your child's needs at school. They can't provide a diagnosis. Along with the SENCO, they're your best bet in organising support for your child in school until you can look into a statement.

The paed will do further assessent and eventually give you a diagnosis. But it may take awhile. In the meantime, the paed can refer you to others that can assist in supporting his needs.

Does he have a statement? If not, look into applying for one if he needs additional support at school. It takes ages to get it in place, and while he is in reception (?) now, once he moves into year 1 and year 2, where it's less play based, he may struggle more. You want to get support in place NOW. You do not need a diagnosis to get a statement.

None of us here can really help as to what specifically your child has, except that we can offer whether or not it's similar behaviour to our own possibly. And yes, much of your listed behaviour is very similar to DS2 (he's 6yo), and he has ADHD, ASD, dyspraxia, hypermobility, sensory problems, and speech and language delay. It's very difficult to narrow things down, as so many of these overlap - what may seem like one issue can easily be caused by something else entirely. That's why it's best to put aside any offered diagnosis from the teacher, and see what the paed has to say.

Santa, I think the GP maybe suspected something on the autism spectrum which has a lot of crossovers with dyspraxia. Children with ASD don't match the stereotype in many, many cases. My DS2 has sensory issues and seeks sensory stimulus. My DS3 is borderline AS (IMO) and is also known as 'the cuddle monster' at school. It's partly that he doesn't realise it's inappropriate to cuddle your teachers when you are 10 yo that makes him so quirky.

We are not DXing your DS, though! Just letting you know what's like dyspraxia but isn't.

Hi santa, I read your post this morning but have to admit I decided not to answer straight away as I needed to think carefully about my answer.

Thankfully other posters have already said what jumped out at me about your OP.

I agree with others who have said that your ds has quite a few "red flags" for ASD but also agree that there are many crossovers with dyspraxia.

I have a Dd with ASD, she is very cuddly and touchy feely, not kissy though

Good luck and welcome to the boad

Thanks all. I know I need to wait for the paediatrician to assess him and your posts have made it clear why. They also prove just how ignorant people can be around asd as I really thought they wouldn't be touchy feely - I am learning that what people think and the truth can be miles apart.

Did anyone find their nearest and dearest were weird and dismissive when their child was being investigated? I'm being made out to be over protective, looking into things too much, attention seeking(!) etc. these are the people who also say there's nothing wrong other than.... Then list the things that are being investigated. I'm so confused with their behaviour and it doesn't help.

It's v hard. People don't know what the apropriate response is, and sometimes they think that if they agree something is wrong then they are somehow being disloyal to the child or parent. Other than that, ostrich syndrome is alive and kicking.

The GP would probably not dx anyway, but leave it to the paediatrician.
The paediatrician would want all the relevant reports from SALT, OT possibly physio etc, before confirming a dx. Dyspraxia or DCD is dx in the absence of any other possibles. As you can see from the replies above, there are a lot of crossovers.
The real issue seems to be lack of help for dealing with day to day and school issues. A confirmed dx will not alleviate these. Personally, I would get the OT to write up a plan of what help you can be giving at home and what help school can be giving.

Thank you all, will of course keep you updated. Is it worth keeping a diary of behaviour, is that something that would be asked for?

We don't have an OT yet. Waiting for paed and SALT appointments to come through. I'm assuming dangerous that paed will refer to OT.

Yes santa I always recommed keeping a diary, in fact I feel a bit like a broken record

The diary was one of the main things that made the proffs sit up and take notice when we said there was something quirky about Dd3. Before I did the diary most people thought I was just an over anxious parent.

Good luck

Thanks I will start one now 👍

Hi it's me again sans festive nn.

We have had a letter today containing the results of his reception school nurse screening.

He is being referred to hospital as he possibly has a problem with his hearing. It has also been noted his behaviour needs to be observed and he needs treatment for his speech (still waiting for initial SALT appointment).

I've tried google to see if there is a link with low muscle tone, coordination and hearing problems but unless he has a super rare defect (unlikely) they are separate things.

We still haven't had the paediatrician appointment yet either, seems the list of issues is getting bigger but we're being left in limbo.

Did anyone find their nearest and dearest were weird and dismissive when their child was being investigated? I'm being made out to be over protective, looking into things too much, attention seeking(!) etc. these are the people who also say there's nothing wrong other than.... Then list the things that are being investigated. I'm so confused with their behaviour and it doesn't help.

oh yes. they will cast aspertions on you parenting too...

his dad could not see anything wrong. but then he does not live with him.

Inner ear defects (that funny little bone in particular) can cause dyspraxia type symptoms.

My DS has summat going on with his inner ear that impacts the visual-auditory-vestibular triad. It also causes sensory issues. (Vestibular = the system that regulates our sense of balance).

DS has major visual tracking and convergence issues, hypersensitive hearing and pitch issues, auditory processing problems and wierd things going on with his balance and co-ordination. Imagine a radio that's not quite tuned in and is fuzzy playing your favourite song. That's how I visualise his issues.

The cause apparently is the inner ear, whereas "dyspraxia" proper is neurological in origin.

The two conditions require a different theraputic approach from each other to sort out. A child with the inner ear issues will have demonstrate social skills issues due to the off tuning but won't have any of the rigidity of thought that is critical to the diagnosis of ASD.

(DS is also borderline ASD and his social communication difficulties are neurological in origin - twas a right old palaver to untangle it all diagnostically I can tell ya!).

Meant to say there's not a lot of difference in the support a child needs in school for the neuro and the inner ear conditions.

It's the medical OT therapies that vary significantly between the two. OT for my son is ultimately aimed at encouraging that wee bone to grow correctly and to "retune" him.

Thanks for the reply. I suppose all we can do is wait and see for bloody ages

my ds has a very similar combination of symptoms and we currently have ADHD, dyspraxia and hyper mobility as a diagnosis but my instinct is ASD as well for us.

We have the hearing appointment which is good. It's the SALT that I'm desperate to start though as his speech, although getting better, is so far behind his friends.

My ds has similar symptoms and has dx of Dyslexia and Dyspraxia, with some autistic traits