What do I do?

[Lougle]

Yesterday we went to church and she went to 'the wave'. I went along because DD1 wanted to try it. The children were asked to draw an ark with animals. DD2 refused and said she only wanted to draw her bunny. I explained that an ark was a boat with animals, so she could draw the boat and draw a bunny on it. She would only draw the bunny if she could use the right colours, then got upset because she 'couldn't get to the box of pens'. She could, it just meant that she had to walk past other children to get to them. The children were then asked to write a sentence. She wouldn't. Said she was too tired, and started crying quietly. They were then asked to draw a rainbow. She wouldn't. When it was time to play a game afterwards, she sat on her chair with her knees up by her chest, sucking her hand and picking her finger, wouldn't join in.

Today, yet another day of DD2 not wanting to go to school. Claiming her head aches and feels fizzy, and her tummy hurts. We were almost late for school because she was so slow at getting ready. When we got there, she wouldn't go in to the cloakroom. Parents aren't allowed in the cloakroom. I finally got her in there, but then she wouldn't go into the classroom. No big demonstrations, just a quiet refusal to move. Eventually, her teacher cottoned on that I was still stood outside the classroom, so came and got her.

I had thought that perhaps a school of 160 children in YrR-Yr2 was too much for her, so we were considering seeing if the local primary school which has 110 between YrR and Yr6 could take her, but they're full with a waiting list of 8 - huge in this area, movement is low. The other primary with similar sizing isn't full, but it's more tricky for reasons I can't go into.

I feel like she's disappearing. My lovely little girl is now a ball of anxiety.

Oh no, did it come across that I was upset that she didn't comply?

What I was upset about, was that she was so anxious about what seemed like a perfectly easy task. She wouldn't join in a perfectly normal game. It's not right that a child of her age should be so anxious.

With the school issue I don't know what I can do. The school isn't seeing it. There are no other schools which can take her. I can't keep her off without her being genuinely ill and I can't ascertain that her tummy ache isn't just anxiety....so what can I do?

I even telephoned the school that I said wasn't possible and they're full.

Well, good question.

1. I think I'm panicking, because she's in a school of 160 now, then in Yr 3 she'll have to move school and that school will have 220.

I was thinking that she might thrive at a smaller school, such as the localish primary that has 110 across the whole primary phase. She would also be in a mixed age class, so she would spend 2 years in each class, giving less transistions.

1. I'm concerned that the school doesn't seem to be picking up on her anxiety and the other issues I've noticed. They seem to put it all down to being 'August born' which I don't think is massively helpful. The school I was thinking of moving her to has a very good SN track record, pushes hard for support and I've witnessed a child with AS arrive at that school with no dx and no support, be supported, statemented and is now in a specialist area. Not that I think DD would need specialist provision, even if she did need dx...just that they are very switched on there and should notice if DD does need that support.

I'm not doing very well with this. I can't even work out if her tummy ache is real.

lougle, as I was reading your post, I could picture my dd2 doing exactly what you describe. in fact I have been in that very situation (dd2 not doing something simple and enjoyable) many times.

I don't think we will get help from any exterior source. dd2 is not 'needy' enough in any other situation, and when she is, her needs are not necessarily any more extreme than any of her classmates - it is the difference between the peak (of ability) and trough that is extreme, but since her peak is quite advanced, her troughs go unnoticed (except by dd2, who thinks she is a failure when she cannot do something).

we have accepted that we have to do what we can, at home, to support dd2, as the issues are just not seen at school. all we can do is take it one step at a time, one week at a time, and try to keep staving off utter meltdown.

re panicking. I think it's totally normal but moving school will only worth doing if she can go to a school that can meet her needs better than the actually school.
Smaller doesn't always means better (bitter experience here). Round where I am we have a very small school completely unable to look after AS children and the biggest one who is very switch on (mainly because they have gain this reputation to be good at looking after AS children so they now have quite a few of them and have develop the knowledge, tools etc...).

Perhaps for now, the best would be concentrate on what you can do at home to help her anxieties, both by trying to reduce them at home and by helping her finding ways to deal with them.

I was reading this book and the author is making a very good point that under the same stimulus and with similar reasons, some children explodes and other cry/stay silent. The explosive ones are very difficult to deal with but do get noticed. The silent ones might get more support (the 'oh poor little one') but their needs will get stay unnoticed as they really create problems within the classroom.

I know my (NT) child has had these tummy pains/headaches and they were very much stress related. Best I have been able to do is to reassure him that there was nothing wrong with him as such and to give him ways to release the stress (lots of outdoors activities, very calm environment at home, stress release techniques such as counting breaths etc..)

xpost with silver

It's so wrong though

I feel like, for the first time, I can see why some parents home school.

Hi lougle,

Beware of just looking at smaller schools. We actually moved Dd3 to a slightly bigger school, certainly much busier.

The difference is that at her current school there is a good understanding of sn's and a very inclusive ,supportive ethos.

At the old smaller school the head was a dictator and if she didnt see sn's then they didnt exist

Re the tummy aches, what tells you it is now more of an anxiety related issue than an tummy bug thing?

My experience is that tummy pains from a bug can stay for a long time after the proper symptoms of a bug have gone away iyswim.

Also what do you think you will be able to cope with as a family? Would HE really be an option?

My objection to the 'August-born' thing is that last year, she scored 100/117 on the EYFS Profile. As point 9 on each section is reserved for children working well above the Early Learning Goals, so the vast majority of children don't achieve point 9, she in effect, got 100/104 points. She scored 8s for the 'Personal and Social Development.'

So, if last year, she scored so highly, and this year she can't even go into the classroom, this can't be just 'August born' can it?

Last year, her report says she needs to be reminded to take her turn in talking, because she has so many fabulous ideas. This year, she's given ELSA without my knowledge to 'allow her to be heard' because she's a 'quieter one in the class'.

Academically she's doing ok. Blue band books (same as where she finished Year R). Concrete language skills ok. Self-initiated language, I have concerns, but teachers don't seem to.

I showed my SIL a list of phrases DD2 had used in the last few days and asked if she would expect her DNeice (10 weeks older than DD2) to say similar things. She said 'No, I'd think "What on earth are you going on about, DD?"'

I don't think I'm going to get far, because she is 'average' academically, so they are happy with her. I'm not concerned about academics. I'm concerned about the little girl who used to skip into school, who now won't go in the classroom.

Escape, I don't know the symptoms aren't genuine. I do know that apart from being generally less bouncy, DD2 seems quite fine over the weekend, then mentions tummy ache when I start saying 'school today..'. That doesn't, of course, mean that it isn't genuinely hurting. It could be that it hurts, and the anxiety worsens it to the point that she feels she can't 'do' school.

I think HE would be an option, but I'm not sure if it would be the right option. You can't let a child hide away from the world and I wonder if she would head that way. Also, it might be interesting dynamically, once DD's 1 & 3 realise that DD2 stays home with Mummy.

So you have different issues there.
The language/behaviour issues you have noticed at home and the fact she doesn't want to go to school.

Is it possible that the fact she doesn't want to go to school has nothing to do with these issues but everything to do with the teacher herself?

re tummy aches, I think that when a child has anxiety related tummy pains, their tummy DOES hurt.
It's more the fact that the REASON isn't organic so you can't treat it the same way and in particular, the pains will not just go away all on their own after a few days.

It is possible, I guess. However, my observations of the teacher are that she is always very affectionate towards DD2. She smiles at her, laughs with her. DD2 says she loves Mrs X....that's the odd thing. She adores her teacher (she says) but still doesn't want to go to school.

Can she verbalized what is making her uncomfortable at all?

I took DD2 to a wholesaler at the weekend. Just us. A little boy, 18 months old, toddled up and waved with a big smile at DD2. She just hid in my coat. I encouraged her to say hello but she just said 'I'm too shy'. The little boy was waving for at least a minute or two, and DD2 spent the whole time hiding her face in my coat and rocking back and forward on her feet, holding my waist.

She has said:

"My classroom looks different. Everything is in the wrong place. I want my old classroom back."
"I don't like the new writing, I want my old writing."
"We don't have bikes and trikes any more"
"I want my old teachers. I want Mrs Y (Mrs Y left last year)"
"The children just follow me around in the playground and all I want to do is drink"

But she said all of that when she was quite poorly (high temperature, etc.). Now that she is 'better' it's like blood out of a stone again, and she just makes things up randomly. Like 'Mummy, you're a glassesboneyhead' and if asked why she doesn't want to go to school she just says 'I'm too shy'.

sounds like a dramatic change has happened with your DD....do you think she has felt bullied or maybe could be having problems with any other children at all?

I just wonder that you had a bright, bouncy skipping into school, child and after some illness has returned and is becoming anxious and getting more pronounced, etc....has she had any issues with other children?
Could you observe playtimes yourself from a distance and or ask school to be vigilant in checking for anything of this nature?...esp at outdoors times and unstructured class times, etc

What did your DD mean...'the children just follow me around in the playground' ???...could there be some below radar stuff going on for her?
Children this age and older too, sometimes/often cannot express the discomfort or what is upsetting them...when it comes to how other people may be treating them or making them feel a particular way....that is quite hard to describe or explain....this statement could be a clue though?

Sorry, I don't mean to cause you worry but it could be worth investigating...who are her friends, what nice things do they do, who does she sit with, who does she like being 'pairs' with, what group stuff does she like and doesn't like...check the children in these groups...could there be any which she is less confident about, etc...

Some good ideas, thank you.

zzzz, I know HE isn't about that, I was saying that I wondered if DD would head in that direction if contact wasn't a forced thing.

She's come home fairly happy this afternoon, so perhaps she is getting anxious about going, but having quite a nice time once there.