my sons behaviour..i REALLY need help

[thriftychic]

my son is 13 , he is a big , strong , tall spotty teenager . i love him so much but his behaviour is hideous.
he was diagnosed AS last week.
if he doesnt want to do something he kicks off or if he cant have / do what he wants he kicks off. BIG TIME.

he refused school on friday because hed lost his bike lock and couldnt ride to school. didnt want to walk there.

yesterday , dh bought him ice cream from the shop and then realised he should have also bought some butter. as he had started cooking lunch he asked ds2 to run round and get some (its 5 minutes ) ds2 didnt want to go because he was watching tv . dh is sick of his laziness and unhelpfulness and got annoyed and said that if he didnt go he wasnt getting the ice cream later. he still wouldnt go . dh shouted , ds2 kicked off .

he smashes things up , he shouts in your face , he gets aggressive . he spits .he wrecks his brothers stuff etc in fact i have hardly any posessions left !
He was saying that if he didnt give him his ice cream he would break x y z , which he then did break.
dh told him if he broke anything else he wouldnt have use of the xbox , ds2 says take my xbox away and i wont go to school
and thats how it goes , ds2 outsmarts us all the time. no matter what we do he wants what he wants . we had to keep guard the bloody freezer until 10pm because he kept trying to get his icecream.
now i know dh handled this badly , but we just dont know what to do . i now have a lock on my wardrobe as ds2 threatened to trash all my clothes .

nothing seems to work and i actually feel a bit scared of ds2 and he seemsto stop at nothing.

please help me if you can x

Thrifty, personally if it were one of my older boys and we had an arguement the day before and things got a little heated, i would start with 'come here, im sorry for shouting at you yesterday' followed by a hug this would then lead to my older boy saying something along of the lines 'im sorry too'

I think being the adult, i should lead the way and set a good example. Ds would then follow suit. So we start any forthcoming discussions on good terms.

I would say i had thought about the consequence of removal of the x-box and would not do it THIS time, as i thought we needed to clearly establish rules and consequences.

I would write a list of the worst unacceptable behaviours, not too many or too long, just the worse ones.

Problem, followed by what your expectations are of him what the reward will be and what the consequence will be.

For example i would write this

Problem - breaking things when angry

Your expectations - its ok to get angry, but when you get angry and feel like breaking things, i expect you walk away, punch a pillow, go for a ride on your bike, go to your room and scream or whatever else you think of *(your message is not that you dont want him to get angry, thats impossible, everyone gets angry, you just want hime to behave differently when angry)

Reward - everytime you walk away, punch a pillow, go for a ride on your bike etc instead of breaking things. You get .............insert something that he likes, whether that be money or whatever.

Consequence - if you do break something when angry ................insert what consequence will be.

Your version tends to be an all or nothing ie you dont get it right first time, you then have nothing to work towards for the next time. So he breaks something once, he gets everyhting taken away. He breaks it twice, he gets x-box taken away and you get into the cycle of punish, punish, punish and no where left to go and with no motivator.

The other version above, he doesnt get it first time, he doesnt get reward and he gets consequence. But he can start again and try to get it right second time and have the reward, if he can get it right.

Does that make sense?

I would also use motivators of rewards such as my time, so if ds gets it right ie he does what i want him to do, he gets half an hour of my time, to do exactly and whatever he wants to do with. Play a board game or i have to play ps3 with him or sit and draw pictures or take a walk to the shops, kick a football about, even bouncing on the trampoline with him!! or whatever he wants to do.

This way it incorporates the 'fun times' suggested earlier in the thread too. But only you would know what motivates your ds and what are the best rewards and consequences to use.

unfortunately cant hide the box , we all use it for netflix and also i'd never be able to get it connected again as dh has created some kind of spaghetti junction behind the tv

i only allow ds2 a couple of hours a day on the xbox because he is really ott with it, he also has epilepsy and it doesnt do him any good with that. sometimes hes already had his 2 hours and then misbehaves so i end up banning him from it the next day. i want to avoid any next day punishments though because it just prolongs the agony for us iyswim

Then what can you do to break the habit and earn the time on it?

i see what you mean claw
i might be being a bit thick but , say hes stolen money from my purse , consequence is no xbox
goes ballistic and hits me
i need another consequence for the hitting dont i ?

If you are going to use x-box it would be the reward and the consequence.

Example

Problem - breaking things when angry

Your expectations - its ok to get angry, but when you get angry and feel like breaking things, i expect you walk away, punch a pillow, go for a ride on your bike, go to your room and scream or whatever else you think of *(your message is not that you dont want him to get angry, thats impossible, everyone gets angry, you just want hime to behave differently when angry)

Reward - everytime you walk away, punch a pillow, go for a ride on your bike etc instead of breaking things. You get extra half an hour of x-box time.

Consequence - if you do break something when angry you dont get extra half an hour of x-box time.

BUT this will only work, if you limit his time on the x-box. If he just plays x-box whenever and for how long he wants anyhow, it wont work.

also he does things that he hasnt done before , so for eg writes on the wallpaper
i'd not have that on the list would i and then every day he didnt write on the wallpaper id reward him
sorry if i sound daft but my brain really is addled !
the soending time might work with dh but he doesnt want to spend with me , spends his time trying to get rid of me . spose he is a teenager isnt he

so,
problem doesnt do what i say

last week i told him not to go out on bike , hurled insults at me and then got bike and rode off anyway

What does your ds like to do? What treats does your ds like?

What are the behaviours that you want to stop?

Name calling, breaking things, stealing, hitting you?

Thrifty, going out on his bike when angry is a very good way of him dealing with his anger, i wouldnt discourage this, i would be listing it as one of my expectations of him!

You are going to have to ignore the smaller behaviours of writing on the walls or whatever, while you deal with the bigger, much more unacceptable behaviours of hitting you for example.

Rome wasnt built in a day, you cannot deal with every single behaviour all at once.

The idea being, by dealing with bigger behaviours, you are breaking the punish, punish mode we all get stuck in and he will start to see that good behaviour is rewarded.

he likes xbox , money and sweet treats in that order

i want him to stop lying , stealing , damaging , refusing to go to school , name calling and telling me to shut up and the like

what i meant with the bike was that , he'd already been out on it . tea was nearly ready it was going dark . i said he now had to stay in ....he went back out

and thanks claw

how about i said , every day that you have behaved well and spoken properly to me you get money and chocolate after tea

everytime you calm down when angry and dont start trashing and smashing you get half an hour extra xbox

not quite in those words but u know..

I think, as claw says you need to decide what behaviours you want to sort out first and focus on those. You can't fix everything overnight.

Pick your battles, choose the thing/s that is/are the most urgent to get sorted and follow through with that. This will serve the dual purpose of dealing with those particular behaviours and also help him to start getting the idea of how things are going to work from now on.

I know this is going to sound harsh, but if you really want to make some headway you can't keep making excuses for why you can't do things in terms of consequences and rewards. You need to just get stuck in. If there is a problem with the Xbox wiring and passwords - get your dh to sort it out and explain to you how to do it or do something more simple yourself, such as remove the plug if necessary. There's always a way. You have to be the one in control of the reward/consequence or there is absolutely no motivation for him.

Two hours a day is a lot of access to computer games. Ds1 only gets an hour a day of Nintendo DS time, given according to a timetable and he's rewarded with extra time randomly for extra good behaviour, as well as some agreed things that 'earn' him more time. He can also earn access to my laptop to go on certain games online, but they are pricey in terms of what he has to do to earn that access - as a result they are still highly prized rewards, because much as he wants to play those games, he often doesn't manage to achieve what's necessary to gain access.

That's not to say he doesn't try it on. He currently nags me roughly every 20 minutes to go on my laptop and play Star Wars Angry Birds. He knows the answer will be no every single time - but it doesn't stop him trying. If he wants to go on it, he knows he has to earn that right and if he wants it badly enough, he will make the effort.

It's amazing how powerful it is when they do something and you say 'thank you ds, that was really good/kind/patient or a good choice, in fact you can have x amount of time on angry birds for doing that'. Ds positively glows with pride and it's a powerful behavioural reinforcer.

Sounds a little crazy, but it's actually the same principle as the positive reinforcement style of dog training. Small, easily won rewards for repeatedly performing the same desired action, then random 'jackpot' rewards for doing it extra well or without having to be prompted or reminded. It works like a one arm bandit really. You keep putting in your 50p or whatever and occasionally win 50p back - but it's the off-chance of winning that random avalanche of coins that keeps you going back and feeding the machine with more of your hard earned 50p's. It's tried, tested and proven behavioural theory and it does work, but it requires consistency and control on the part of the 'trainer/parent' and rewards that are motivational enough.

My ds is similar, he struggles to entertain himself without a screen to stare at, but, that doesn't mean I allow it. He moons around the house, checking the time every few minutes to see if it's DS time yet and it drives me bonkers, but it's the only way I can maintain control and keep computer access as both a consequence and reward, as necessary.

Yes, it makes my life hell when he loses computer time. He rampages, melts-down, screams, shouts, wails and tells me how evil I am, but ultimately he knows that isn't going to move me and if he doesn't want to lose more time he won't repeat whatever behaviour caused him to lose the time in the first place. I don't impose further sanctions/consequences for his reaction, because that just escalates everything further and because he doesn't have the emotional control as yet to be able to not react that way. That's the time I have to bite my tongue, ignore his meltdown and get on with things while he rampages around me. My heart sinks when I have to implement computer time sanctions, as effectively I am punishing myself - and the whole family - because ds will be a nightmare, but it has to be done and the longer we have been sticking with these rules, the less and less time he's lost.

Cross posted with everyone, as had to go and deal with poorly dd mid-post.

hi , moose
what would you do if say for instance ds asked for another go on the computer game and you said no and when you look he has switched it on and is gaming away ?
ds2 does sneaky stuff that ive told him not to do !
so i can reward him for dealijg with his anger better but what about stuff like that ?
sorry your dd is ill , hope shes ok soon

So worst behaviour ie hitting you, is the reward and consequence of x-box. I think worst behaviour should match the most deisred thing being the consequence.

Problem - hitting when angry

Your expectations - its ok to get angry, but when you get angry and feel like hitting, i expect you walk away, punch a pillow, go for a ride on your bike, go to your room and scream

Reward - If you walk away, punch a pillow, go for a ride on your bike etc instead of hitting me everytime. You get 2 hours of x-box, plus an extra half hour x-box time.

Consequence - if you do hit me when angry you dont get any x-box time

I think this one has to have zero tolerance, it is an all or nothing.

------------------

Problem - breaking things

Your expectations - its ok to get angry, but when you get angry and feel like breaking things, i expect you walk away, punch a pillow, go for a ride on your bike, go to your room and scream

Reward - If you walk away, punch a pillow, go for a ride on your bike etc instead of breaking things. You get pocket money of £2 a day or whatever you think is a reasonable amount

Consequence - Your x amount of pocket money goes towards the cost of replacing whatever it is you damaged.

I think this one has to be zero tolerance, its an all or nothing

--------------------

Problem - name calling when angry

Your expectations - its ok to get angry, but when you get angry and feel like name calling, i expect you walk away, punch a pillow, go for a ride on your bike, go to your room and scream.

Reward - If you walk away, punch a pillow, go for a ride on your bike etc instead of name calling. You get sweets.

Consequence - if you name call when angry, you will told to stop and apologise, if you continue, no sweets.

This one you could add a sub clause, be a bit more flexible with, ie give him the opportunity to stop and apologise, before imposing the consequence.

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Stealing from your purse i would just hide my purse so he couldnt steal and deal with this one later, once you have problems under control, you can then change the above to address different problems.

Same as lying.

School refusal, i would be trying to sort out with the school first, as might be struggling.

Have to go out now for an appointment, will check back later, to see if my suggestions are any good for you.

If ds switched back on a game, after he had asked and been told no, i would switch it off again!

Back later

thankyou claw , brilliant
i needed the idiots guide i can now print out something very similar and i will go through it with ds2 tonight.

i am going to tell him that as the issue with construction is at school i am not going to remove xbox for it .

i will also try a hug but im not holding out any hope on that one !

What Claw said. If he switched a game on after I had told him not to I would switch it off. Very likely the next step would be his usual repertoire of behaviours, which are the ones you are trying to deal with - therefore you refer back to your agreed list of rules, rewards and consequences and deal with the fall-out that way.

It doesn't have to be a hug. Could you try asking him what makes him feel loved and supported by you and if there's anything he would like to spend time with you doing so that you have the chance to enjoy each other's company for a while.

Not an idiots guide at all Thrifty, its easy to for me to say try this and that, when they im on the outside looking in and not in the thick of it!

Above was just to give you some ideas, you know your ds best and what will or wont work.

Good luck and let us know how it goes you never know, you might even get a hug, its amazing what an x-box can do!!

Try to avoid making unexpected requests for things your DS has to do right now. Those are the hardest thing for kid with ASCs to cope with. Kids with Asperger's rely on everything being predictable and they hate having to change their routine or stop what they?re doing to do something else. I only ask DS to do something for me if either (a) it?s part of his routine or (b) I can give him plenty of warning about it. Kids with ASCs are much more likely to be helpful if you can build the helpful stuff into their routine, like doing a regular shopping trip with a list.

In addition to Asperger's-specific stuff, one book that worked an absolute treat with my DS was this ? Ross Greene's Explosive Child It really helped me figure out how to manage him even though it barely mentioned the autism spectrum.

Good luck

Good book for us was "People with Autism Behaving Badly".
Lots of good advice from other people. I second "pick your battles". Don't try to tackle too many issues at once.
When he is behaving well make sure you tell him so he gets positive reinforcement.
Don't tackle issues when he is really angry. We used to do that and made things worse.
Remember he is going through puberty as well as having AS so life is doubly hard for him at the moment.
Some psychologists say children with AS are two to three years behind socially and emotionally. Make allowances for that and don't expect him to "act his age".
Be kind to yourself. You've got a tough job at the moment.

We have dramas in our house too over using access to tv/wii computers as rewards/punishments and although you can buy software to control many of these devices or some may have the software built in, if you have a geeky child, they are often crafty enough to find ways round the parental controls.

One simple little device we came across has taken some of the grief out of this process - it's a remote controlled socket similar to this one

www.amazon.co.uk/Remote-Controlled-Socket-1-Pack/dp/B007Y7D8Z6/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1352842624&sr=8-5

which you plug any electronic device into and then turn on and off at will.
To stop them simply unplugging the x-box/tv from the socket you have to protect the socket by boxing it in, if you're the handy type, or plugging it into an extension cable and then locking it inside a toolbox with a padlock if you're not. The remote is small enough to hide in pocket and will operate from anywhere else in the house.

A bit ott but might help to some extent if your battles also extend to when you come to enforce your threat. Also grateful to other posters for sound advice and reminders above.