DD (NT) has been placed next to the child with social communication problems at school

[StarlightMcKenzie]

Does anyone have any thoughts on this?

It's a hard one and I can see where you are coming from x

I don't se how it will affect your dds social and learning as she is NT. but she should be taught and supported to speak up if she is being hurt. Tbh I am surprised the teacher hasn't spotted the other child scratching her anyway!

Another note is our children need to learn social skills and in order to practice need their peers for this but adult support should also be on standby too.

I would chat honestly with the staff and mention the scratches because apart from the fact they should be watching and preventing it, it is also inappropriate behaviour that the other child needs to be directed away from as how else is the DVD going to learn.

At that age it would be minimal time in close proximity but you could say that rotation of peers would be best as it broadens the other child's peer circle and if others take in turns its not going to feel like "I have to sit there" x

DC not DVD lol

I think the bit that sticks out here is that your DD has been indifferent and accepting of these scratches to her face which she has come home with....this is the bit that makes me wonder if there is an issue with this tbh.
Her understanding and tolerance for her DB is understandable but you don't want her to go out in the world and believe she has to be tolerant of anything (esp physical harm) from others

I think your DD may be too tolerant?...too accepting of others behaviour?...maybe a bit of a skewed view of her right NOT to be in this position and not asking for support or help. I might be a bit concerned that she may inadvertently be a child who would be bullied too easily and become a target because of this sort of acceptance/confused view of what she should/shouldn't tolerate from others iykwim...?

I'd imagine any other child would be very upset and not wanting to sit with another child who had done this...if there was a clear choice not to. Did school even tell you about this incident happening or did you collect DD and discover this for yourself? I'd be quite bothered by this too....it is not alright imo

I have a NT DS, as well as DD with SN.
I wouldn't be happy if I felt that the way he was treated as school was because he has a sibling with SN. I very much want him to be seen as his own person, so from that point of view, if he was sat next to a child with Social Communication problems, purely because he has a sister with ASD, I would not be happy.

I would speak to the school and ask them why DD is sat next to that particular child. There really may be no reason for it at all; it may just be a random seating arrangement, but you do need to find out, for your own peace of mind.

'she will be observing everyone's behaviour, weighing them all up.'

Yes, thank you.

I've just picked her up. She told me very loudly in front of x' parent 'That is x. He's a naughty boy. He hurts me. He pulled me over at tidy up time when we had to tidy up with a partner'.

Parent looked embarassed but another mother who appeared to know of issues started to reassure her and enquire as to how x was getting one and steered her away,

I took dd to the teacher and explained what dd had told me and that I had told her that next time she should tell the teacher and the teacher backed me up on that which was good, so hopefully now she's heard it from the teacher, she'll do it. Also the teacher is aware that I am concerned so will perhaps monitor more closely.

Also I possibly have a way in with the parent if she'll accept it as I can informally apologise for my dd's outspoken behaviour in the playground and explain that i've told her to tell the teacher at the time rather than in the playground because I haven't seen what happened and can't help either of them.

Thanks Pag for your reassurance.

'Her understanding and tolerance for her DB is understandable but you don't want her to go out in the world and believe she has to be tolerant of anything (esp physical harm) from others'

Yes, this is the bit I'm worried about. It seems to happen mostly at the end of the session when teachers are distracted/tidying away, getting ready for home etc. when they have to either tidy or sit in their allocated seats ready for hometime and when they are expected to be quiet.

On reflection, our rules at home may not help because she can be overly dramatic when ds does somethimg she doesn't like which ds finds rewarding and therefore her shrieking can escalate the issue, so we have done a lot of work at home on 'ignoring ds' behaviour'.

Can you see why this is complex?

Yes I do see :)

She spoke out her concerns to you though as she knows she can do that. Hopefully now the teacher has told her to let them know then that will sort things a bit.

It could also be that this child likes your dd and so has made a permanent beeline for her so the teacher automatically assumed it would be ok.

I would play it by ear a few days and see how she goes and if she is supported correctly

Ok, I have read the whole thread.

Star...I think you're quite right to rethink some of your phrasing. 'The child with Social Communication problems' is what we all fight our children being known as. I know you know that, but it did shock me, so it's worth saying.

I also think that it's quite possible that the placement was either random, or that there were other children the teacher couldn't sit the child in question next to (don't forget that they get info from nursery).

Next, I can see the complexity of the situation with your unique 'rules' at home, due to the ABA programme and general needs of your DS, but actually I think perhaps we are doing your 4 year old NT girl a bit of a disservice, here She is bright, used to following rules - she is more than able to learn a variation to the rule according to situation. Even my dog knows that under no circumstances is he allowed under the covers, except once DH gets out of bed , for example.

I do understand though, how odd it is in the NT world when your firstborn has SN. We are so used to having to micro-manage every situation, every setting they attend, every stage, that it's quite disconcerting to suddenly be almost a spectator of your NT child's education.

It's good you have been able to speak with the teacher and hopefully this will help and DD will be more confident about being vocal if anything happens she is hurt or upset by at the time of it happening.

I suppose it's a bit of wait and see and monitor for you now....I suppose DD needs to know that the boy is probably a nice boy even though he has done naughty things and there is a difference there. Hopefully the teacher will be vigilant and allow more space between them so DD isn't being put in this position too much again.

It's difficult to be sure about things when they are this age too and they can't often express or explain something or simply don't understand the importance of something that happens either. Does DD say that this boy is doing things to other children or is it just her? Perhaps he isn't getting the support he really needs??...maybe have a diary at home just to record things and see if you can build a picture from it...it may help DD but also help the school too???

Yes. Diary is a good idea. Thank you.

WRT to the 'the' and 'a', I realise the mistake but do have to reassure you that the 'the' was written rather than 'a' because THE boy was familiar to me, rather than being just A boy iyswim.

I hope you can see the difference. Lougle I believe you've seen enough of my posts to know that generally I manage to get my point across DESPITE my grammar rather than because of it, although don't feel you have to confirm this. [worried]

And to clarify further the 'the' came from the development of a 'code' to avoid using his name iyswim.

Star this might have more to do with a kind of traumatic response you have had to your experience with DS. It can make you doubt that schools and teachers anywhere do anything for a good and logical reason. And this response is completely understandable given our experiences.

I found out when DS2 started school (DS2 - NT, hugely articulate and socially competent) that he had been put in a social skills group. My heart sank and I felt like fleeing the country! DS2 loved the group but I felt betrayed that the teachers hadn't told me straight up.

I discovered when I 'confronted' the teacher that he had been put in the group precisely because he is so articulate and socially competent. They felt he displayed a maturity and tolerance beyond his years and wanted to model good behaviour in the groups when they played and discussed turn-taking etc. He was friends with a little boy who had not been diagnosed as yet but who clearly was on the spectrum. This little boy was beginning to be socially ostracised by some of the other children. DS2 understood the little boy found the playground stressful and I was proud of him for that.

DS2 wasn't his carer, or only playfriend but I'd like to think that the teacher may be thought he made him more comfortable than some of the other children.

Perhaps she is very socially able. Perhaps it is just where she has been put (with no additional thought to it).

Take away the issues of ASD or anything else and concentrate on the child. If the little boy is upsetting your daughter because he is hurting her, then that is worth mentioning but I would not worry about anything else too much.

Thanks all. I've flagged it to the teacher, will remind dd to tell the teacher even if they have been told 'no talking' and will attempt to mend bridges with the parent if she seems open to it. I'll also keep a diary just to monitor for the moment and decide what to do with that later if it is needed. (although I do actually feel a bit sick at the idea of keeping a record of incidences caused by someone elses child - not sure I would have coped if someone had done that to me so it will require huge thinking if it needs to be taken further)

That's probably all I can do for now. There 'appears' to be two additional staff members in her class now than there was at the beginning of term so perhaps they are more on the ball than my experience leads me to believe they can be.

Of course, Star, it just took me back, and I'm glad it's a 'cleansing of details' slip rather than a typical MNism

As I'm new here I don't know your background Star, but all I can say is, firstly, thank goodness that 'naughty' boy's mother had someone with her as I'm sure she wanted the ground to swallow her up. Secondly, how deeply sorry I feel for both that 'naughty', "more behavioural than SN" DC and his mother and the long, rocky road and isolation that they will both endure as the DC's SN are assessed and diagnosed by professionals other than those found at the school gates iyswim. Thirdly, your NT DD appears to have very little problem speaking up, quite the oppo indeed. Fourthly, I do understand your concerns although I don't have an NT DC myself, and would defo ask for her to sit elsewhere as it isn't helping either DC and if no one else will sit next to him then the school will have to address this very young boy's SN and take measures to deal with it.

Thank you float. I don't disagree with anything you have said.

And welcome to MN.

Thanks. There's load to read (and feel) on it.

And feel?

Are you using special software?

Just wanted to say thanks Star for sharing this as it's a POV I hadn't considered before. I feel guilty about my eldest as she is NT and has 2 little brothers on the spectrum. Luckily from v early on she showed an inbuilt strict moral code so I know she's not entirely shaped by her life with them. But I'd never stopped to think about younger NT siblings and their view of the world. I totally see why you'd be worried and think it's great that you're factoring it in to what is already be a pretty jampacked agenda of daily thought processes. Shows what a good mum you are.