Draft SEN legislation - worrying!

[AgnesDiPesto]

SOSSEN views on draft legislation here

If you have views you can submit them to Ambitious About Autism by 11 October here although probably other routes too.

SOSSEN urging everyone to complain to their MP about removing parental rights.

'Penalties for LAs who do not comply, this will help the good people in the children's disability teams get the budgets they need to deliver the services I know they want to'

Yes. Heads of SEN will have backing to request and obtain the resources they require to do their jobs legally. Additional resources can come from the current wave of purchasing outside legal support to defend their law-breaking activities.

I would love to do a FOI request to find out how legal firms are chosen and who choses them, and importantly how this spending is scrutinised.

Although I don't expect it is strictly necessary to increase resources for SEN. It is more about where the money currently resides (legal teams/arse covering) and where it needs to be (front line services and training).

Agnes 'See Star you don't need to be a lawyer - you are just as qualified!'

I think we may have to find a way to organise and draft comments/responses off board given the way this has been sidetracked several times this morning.

I agree Hothead, this needs careful consideration, exchanges of views and sheer grunt work! It may be helpful to plan carefully for the chat with Timpson too.

I haven't posted on this thread so far as I am ill and haven't felt up to wading through it all but have been thinking about it since getting the email from SOSSEN a few days ago. One of the committee MPs is my consituency MP so I want to make a very strong letter to him, will be watching this thread with interest.

'none of the major posts on this thread seem to come from 'ordinary parents' and yet they are the ones who need the most defence.'

Actually, I find this a bit offensive tbh. Are 'ordinary parents' a bit dim then?

No wonder LA's think they can walk all over them.

Wouldn't it be useful to compare what is missing in the draft legislation (mentioned already - right to request sa, time scale for assessment) with here that sits already? So you get an idea of what is still to come (are time scales in Sch27) And what has been omitted or changed?

I am not sure we have distilled anything to be honest - or is it just me?

I would be interested to see what IPSEA say but I have to say I am not hanging on their words. I find most of the charities to be such a let down.

I have started the first steps to a JR on the SEN DPs pilot Order but the charities I approached were, largely, appallingly disinterested.

I am afraid I don't have much faith!! In anything or anyone..........

nonactuallyintime - I am concerned that if we do that, and we post it here, it will get lost in the flow of posts.

It is a big ask for people to keep abreast of what has been posted.

I'd be intererested in hoe mediation is to work and the purpose.

Is the purpose to get the LA and parents to agree provision, or is the purpose to ensure the child gets the provision that meets their needs.

My experience is that parents who start on the tribunal process actually do so asking for considerably less that the child gets even if they do not win the tribunal, by the time they have had a decent job done independently of assessing their child's needs.

Like Agnes, our LA were suggesting mainstream with unspecified TA of up to 20 hours. No OT and no SALT.

DS now receives daily OT and SALT in a Special school.

What on earth would a compromise to that be and how would that be in Ds' interests?

He needs what he needs. I wish he didn't.

Very well put Star. Perhaps people should keep a note of their excellent points for a future thread!

It is so easy to dismiss parents shouting at once either as the 'sharp elbowed' middle class (and we've had that on here already) or in a 'I can't possibly comment on individual cases' kind of way!

MNSN is not a normal chat board. For many of us its a lifeline. From time to time we get a flurry of new posters through some media attention and it can be unsettling for those who bare their soul on here. Some of us have been spied upon on here eg by LA staff before a Tribunal. So we are a paranoid bunch. There are a lot of articulate, educated people on here, but I think thats a good thing and hope we use that to help others and its not elite. Even 'clever' parents need a support network. All the long standing posters on here spend a lot of time passing on advice to those who come behind. I can't imagine what it was like to navigate SN world 10 years ago before boards like this. It must have been very isolating.

Even those of us who you feel are not 'ordinary' have had to battle.
I still had to remortgage my house and go to tribunal to get adequate provision. I had to leave my career as a lawyer to be a carer. The nastiness of the LA to me personally pushed me close to a breakdown.
So I am ordinary here.

I can't see how articulate / educated parents sitting quietly by is going to help the less articulate / educated. I spent my career as a lawyer speaking up for those who could not speak up for themselves. Now I speak up for my son, and those like him, who due to severe language difficulties literally do not have a voice. We are not speaking out for our own self importance, we are doing it for the good of every child who needs more support. We want the law to be right for everyone, so others do not to have to go through what we did.

Its a LA myth that the problems with the SN system are due to sharp elbowed educated middle class parents hogging all the resources. LAs deliberately make the system as complex and legalistic as possible so that all but the most determined and affluent parents fail to jump the hurdles put in front of them. Even I had to buy in legal help to get through the process. If people on here can make a difference to those who come behind or find it more challenging we should. LAs like to create divisions between parents and try to make some feel guilty and others hard done by, it suits them for parents to be divided.

Truth is none of us will make much impact on our own. Thats why I started the thread because we are stronger together. Whatever our background, we've all ended up in the same place, so we may as well try and get along.

Sorry that sounds like a sermon and I'm not even religious.

All, This thread has just come to my attention. I would be happy to take any issue and work on this so that submissions can be made to the education committee. Is there general agreement among interested posters that a single submission should be what is being aimed for? Is there an argument that multiple submissions from 'ordinary parents' may carry more weight? i don't knwo how I feel about that myself, I just wanted to raise the issue. For me, at first glimpse, the fundamental things that need clearing up are the absence of a right of appeal from the primary legislation, the question of how the duty to 'secure' is going to be interpreted, and the problems thown up by compulsory mediation, and whether the framework and associated penalties is even handed, especially taking account of the inequality of expertise and bargaining power between the child/parents and the LA. I have not read the legislation yet though, so may be wide of the mark.

As to the derailing of this thread, I rarely come here, and have only posted a few times, but have lurked here for along time, as this board is quite simply the best resource online for parents of children with SEN. I have seen posters, of varying degrees of articulacy (and what a shame it is to even have to point that out) ably and willingly helped by some of the amazing posters here. As a relative bystander, I think that it would be really great if some of the new posters who have arrived would appreciate the time and experience that the main posters on this board devote to helping others. Sadly also, it is unavoidable that, on a puiblic messageboard, some people are going to be reticent about giving out too much informaiton, given the fact that working with LAs often brings about unneccesary and stressful conflict situations. All we all want is a fair SEN system for all children with SEN.

I have to wade in and say i don't think HereBenson meant anything offensive to anyone here. I read her post as saying that there are thousands of families out there who may not know the first thing about how to secure adequate provision for their child, and who have not been fortunate or well-resourced enough to discover networks such as this board. It's hard to know what you don't know until you realise you don't know it (iykwim!). (Eg I would have no idea whatsoever that ABA existed if it wasn't for someone on this board.) I assumed these were the 'ordinary' families she meant.

x-posts. Very well put agnes (as usual)

"It's a board with established community but we aren't elite"

"Actually it sounds as though you are. Whilst I am glad that those of you with expertise are tackling these issues, none of the major posts on this thread seem to come from 'ordinary parents' and yet they are the ones who need the most defence."

I am not there is anything to misunderstand in that. It seems perfectly clear to me.

We are all 'ordinary parents' but we have been forced into extraordinary situations. Most of us are just trying to use any skills/knowledge we have to help others in the same appalling predicament as we appreciate that the important thing is working together and that there are many out there who do not know what we know.

Although I have to say that even knowing what we know doesn't stop us from getting a kicking from LAs - in fact it can make the drubbing more vitriolic.

Okay, my semi-own agenda question. Where will ABA provision fall in the new plans? LA, Health, Social?

I think that its a good idea to start a new thread, gleaning the relevant points from the discussion here.

I also second the view that we are all ordinary parents, but that we find ourselves in extraordinary circumstances - it certainly describes me. I would never have imagined that I would have a disabled child and would then have to go to a Tribunal to get her the help she needs - that is the extraordinary part of it for me, that the system works against parents of children with special needs, not with them, and wastes money on employing barristers to defend their position when we dare to question them!

I'm quite 'new' to MN and found the SN boards absolutely amazing. I thought I knew quite a bit before I got here. I have to say that whenever I have had a new question or needed some advice...this is now my first point of call.

I value every one of the people who come here and give of their experience, information and support.

I want to be of help here too and this green paper and it's contents is very worrying for us all.....we need clarification on how this possible new system will actually be delivered and what benefit to our children it will actually/realistically mean for them.....

who will have the right to apply for services?
What will be the purpose of mediation?...and what will happen if mediation fails in it's purpose?...next tier in process and what will this be?
How will GIRFEC and Ed Act, CofE and National standards mean within this new process and in being properly applied for SN/SEN children?

if this isn't going to make things simpler, clearer and less time consuming ....if it isn't going to mean that our children receive services and support they need without us jumping through these current hoops of fire.....then we need to stand up and be as strong a voice as is possible....

I can only watch this thread with interest and hope to contribute, if and when I can....

Yes, we are all 'ordinary' in the sense that we're just parents, no particular specialist knowledge/expertise other than our own children and what we've learnt through our own battles. But I took the phrase to refer to the nameless 'others' out there who do not even have our knowledge or experience.

I agree, a new thread should be started where we can all post our specific issues and concerns, which could be collated. Needs someone to then translate that into a coherent response though - is this where MN could come in?