Anyone else have a 'lazy' DS?

[joelalie]

Hi,

don't know if anyone can help me. My DS#1 (9) has just had his parent's evening. The teacher's first words to DH (I had to stay home to look after the kids) were..'what are we going to do with your son?' . She tells us that he is basically too laid-back....he never finished a piece of work as he runs out of time. We've expereinced this at home too. He's very clever, interested in things, popular (although doesn't belong to a 'gang' as such) but it's really hard to get him to do anything that doesn't interest him...such as cleaning his teeth, getting to the toilet on time (he often soils his pants) and doing homework. He even chucks apple cores behind the sofa rather than take them to the bin . DH just thinks he's lazy and we need to encourage him more.....well, we've never managed to 'encourage' him to do anything he doesn't want to up till now...we've tried star charts, getting cross, pleading , withholding or offering extra pocket money. Nothing seems to make a difference. He simply doesn't seem to care about consequences. But this time I think there might be a real problem..... when I broached the subject of his slowness at school he started to cry...he's very aware that he's the only one on his table that doesn't finish work and he's terrified of being put down a table (to the bottom). It seems to me that he has actually accepted the possible consequence of his 'laziness' but can't do anything about it.

His maths and reading are quite good and up till now he's always been OK as they haven't really had to do much writing. The knowledge is there but it's hard for him to show what he knows.
Previous teachers have been able to see his good points...this one is more concerned with getting stuff down on paper and that is DS's weak point.

His cousin has been diagnosed with mild dispraxia and thinking back to his uncle (my brother) as a child I wonder if he had it too. Is it possible that my son has a problem. DH thinks it's just bone idleness that he will grow out of but I'm getting concerned.

Sorry to waffle on but I am really beginning to worry now.

TIA

ds (almost 8) who has dyspraxic tendencies(not formally diagnosed), including motor skill issues, distractabilty and sequencing, rarely completes work. He cannot formulate his ideas quickly and succinctly enough to meet a time constraints, although his imagination and verbal ideas are great. He also find the physical side of writing laborious and tiring. It may be something worth considering in your son's case although it is not specifically an inherited trait afaik adnaffects up to 1 in 20 children , so fairly common. However there isn't a cure as such, it is a case of putting thought processes and practical systems in place to manage it (which the teacher can help with) as well as perhaps focussing on specific physical difficulties.

Thanks,

that is most helpful. Perhaps I will have a word with the teacher. DH didn't really challenge her last night, there wasn't enough time. I think I'll try to get an appointment and see her at a time when I can spend a little time and try to get her to see the whole picture. Perhaps she can offer some suggestions.

Kate

How is he physically?

riding a bike

climbing

catching a ball

My DS has quite servere dyspraxia and has extreme slow processing but has a very high IQ and is gifted and talented with english, but he is not lazy and is very determined and focused

His slow processing is a result of his extreme prematurity {born at 27 weeks} and from being on oxygen for 3 months

IMHO I would get him seen by pead dept or get a ed physch to see him

I would suggest you see a developmental paediatrician - your GP should be able to refer you to such a person. An ed pysch may be helpful as well.

It could well be dyspraxia - you need a diagnosis first and foremost. Please don't let your DH just dismiss this as laziness.

Thank you both.

Kangasmummy - he's always been very adept physically - he was catching and throwing a ball at 18m, and riding a bike by 4yrs. But as he gets older he finds himself less successful in the team games that he likes because he struggles with the rules.

MeerkatsUnite - I've rung DH at work and got him to agree that I should see the teacher - seems like a good first step. Perhaps she'll accepts that there is a bigger issue here. She's a rather strict, rigid teacher - DH is a trained primary teacher and he reckons she seem more like a secondary school teacher in her attitude. We'll see.

The team sports issue rings a bell too, joelalie. ds finds it hard to assimilate all the action and reactions of others quickly enough to keep up. He has a visual tracking difficulty which affects his hand/eye coordination (doesn't sound like an issue in your ds' case) and lacks spatial awareness to be able judge relative distance and speed accurately. He also finds it hard to copy from a board and not lose his place, slowing him down.

DS has huge problems physically

so the oppposite of your DS in those sypmtoms

with balance, ball skills, co ordination etc.

HERE IS A LIST OF SYMPTOMS FROM DYSPRAXIA WEBSITE

BUT I don't see lazziness on there

So don't really know what to think

symptoms
By 3 years old
Symptoms are evident from an early age. Babies are usually irritable from birth and may exhibit significant feeding problems.

They are slow to achieve expected developmental milestones. For example, by the age of eight months they still may not sit independently.

Many children with dyspraxia fail to go through the crawling stages, preferring to 'bottom shuffle' and then walk. They usually avoid tasks which require good manual dexterity.

Pre-school children - 3 to 5 year olds
If dyspraxia is not identified, problems can persist and affect the childís life at school. Increasing frustration and lowering of self-esteem can result.

Children with dyspraxia may demonstrate some of these types of behaviour:

Very high levels of motor activity, including feet swinging and tapping when seated, hand-clapping or twisting. Unable to stay still
High levels of excitability, with a loud/shrill voice
May be easily distressed and prone to temper tantrums
May constantly bump into objects and fall over
Hands flap when running
Difficulty with pedalling a tricycle or similar toy
Lack of any sense of danger (jumping from heights etc)
Continued messy eating. May prefer to eat with their fingers, frequently spill drinks
Avoidance of constructional toys, such as jigsaws or building blocks
Poor fine motor skills. Difficulty in holding a pencil or using scissors. Drawings may appear immature
Lack of imaginative play. May show little interest in ëdressing upí or in playing appropriately in a home corner or wendy house
Limited creative play
Isolation within the peer group. Rejected by peers, children may prefer adult company
Laterality (left- or right-handedness) still not established
Persistent language difficulties
Sensitive to sensory stimulation, including high levels of noise, tactile defensiveness, wearing new clothes
Limited response to verbal instruction. May be slow to respond and have problems with comprehension
Limited concentration. Tasks are often left unfinished

By 7 years old
Problems may include:

Difficulties in adapting to a structured school routine
Difficulties in Physical Education lessons
Slow at dressing. Unable to tie shoe laces
Barely legible handwriting
Immature drawing and copying skills
Limited concentration and poor listening skills
Literal use of language
Inability to remember more than two or three instructions at once
Slow completion of class work
Continued high levels of motor activity
Hand flapping or clapping when excited
Tendency to become easily distressed and emotional
Problems with co-ordinating a knife and fork
Inability to form relationships with other children
Sleeping difficulties, including wakefulness at night and nightmares
Reporting of physical symptoms, such as migraine, headaches, feeling sick

By 8 to 9 years old
Children with dyspraxia may have become disaffected with the education system. Handwriting is often a particular difficulty. By the time they reach secondary education their attendance record is often poor.

What happens when he throws the apple core behind the sofa?

What happens if you decide to be lazy for a day??????

And not get his tea, drinks, pick up his clothes?????

Dyspraxic children are not lazy, often frustrated, yes, but not lazy.

I think he throws apple cores behind the sofa (and behind means he knows he shouldnt ) because he can't be bothered to put them in the bin.

Onlt a qualified person can make a diagnosis of dyspraxia....but few dyspraxic children would be described as adept physicaly

Agree mb, unsure about the apple core bit - may be an entirely separate issue if he can get away with it.

However ds was labelled as lazy and slow by his Pre Kindergarten(=Reception) teacher at 4/5, as he couldn't do his own coat, took ages to eat lunch, was dreamy and took too long to do anything practical. This was before the extent of his issues were noticed by his next, rather more sympathetic and savvy teacher.

My daughters just been diagnosed with Dyspraxia. I would ask the teacher what stratagies she's going to put into place to help your son cope in the classroom. I had years of teachers telling me my daughter can't...
follow a list of instructions..
has no organisation skill in her work or life...
can't copy from the board
forgets things she learnt from one week to the next... but do you know, not one said this is how we can help her..

Just wondered how your son's handwriting is...
does he have a good tripod grip
is he a messy eater...
how are his organisation skills...
his speech...

in fact the things from the list that RTKangaMummy posted..

I'm suprised at your husband being a teacher.. has he heard of dyspraxia. what did he come up with to help your son???

LIZS I think calling your DS lazy was wrong and unfair as dressing problems etc is a definate symptom

It is fine motor problems etc.

As the list says

My ds (nearly 7) is much like others here (most like LIZS's, I think). Our strategy is constant steady little-and-often practice of the things he finds difficult - for instance we're tackling his reluctance with writing by doing the Kumon English programme - a little bit every day; and we tackle his disorganisedness by focussing on one thing at a time - eg at the moment we're working on getting dressed for school without any prompting (plus little pep talks about "being responsible"). Mine is fairly amenable to being asked to do stuff, though - I realise that won't be the same for everyone. Though I do have to resort to chocolate buttons occasionally.

The other things that have helped with his co-ordination (and he loves them, too) is learning to play the piano; and indoor-wall-rock-climbing.

Hi Rummum,

all the things you mentioned (quite a few on the other list too), although the fact that he is physically adept seems to cast doubt. In fact he either writes quite neatly OR gets most of his work done...can't manage both. If he is neat he might get half the work completed. He couldn't organise a ..ahem..'party' in a brewery. As I say this is the first time anyone has mentioned anything about this problem at school, but I am hoping that his teacher might come up with some strategies...I am struggling to see how I can seriously influence how he works in class without her help.

In reply to the other questions, about how we deal with his behaviours at home, the answer is that we have tried everything as I said earlier. It's difficult not to cook his meals as I have 2 other children to cook for....I'm quite happy not to get things for him and clear up after him but that doesn't seem to bother him at all. The apple core thing isn't a regular occurence TBH....if we find one these days he gets no more apples (or other snacks) for a day.

I guess that DH doesn't see what's in front of his nose when it's his own child. He doesn't teach now so it's not something he deals with all the time. I don't think that the course he took covered any '..ias' in detail. When I mentioned it to him he did agree that there might be something in it although he did point out,as other's here have, that DS's physical adeptness is unusual. Perhaps he just doesn't want anything to be wrong with his son....

Kate

Sorry am confused do you mean that he has the symptoms on the list or he doesn't??????

Hi Bink,

reading your post is interesting. We've been giving 'little pep talks' about responsiblity for years....and getting ready for school can be a nightmare...I have to be super-organised anyway with 3 of them and myself to get out of the house and DS#1 not bothering is as nightmare. I've lost count of the times we've gone over the same ground...and long term it makes no difference. Thankfully DD (and even DS#2 who's only 3) seem to be much better otherwise I couldn't cope. I ahve thought about not bothering and just making him leave the house half-dressed or without his lunch box or coat but I'd worry about him all day if I did. He also gets very very angry with me when I go on at him (as he puts it) and then goes on to say that 'everyone hates him', which is patently untrue.

I've never allowed myself to consider there might be some underlying problem before now, just thought we weren't very good at parenting somehow but it seems so odd that DD and DS#2 are do different. He also seems very unhappy with his own progress.

Yes he does have some of them just not all.

Bink, ds loves indoor climbing too - he just had his birthday party at a local centre. Think it is something he can do and control for himself plus he has plenty of thinking time if he needs it.

RTKM looking back I'm both and that he faced such a lack of sympathy adn understanding. That teacher was generally poor, was waiting out "retirement" (took loads of sick time) which she readily took a year or so later and used to yell at the kids - and the school were well aware she wasn't performing well. Fortunately the TA was young, enthusiastic, much more amenable and helpful to ds.

try googling the symptoms for dysgraphia - sounds very plausible - although doesn't explain the apple butts!

LIZS, goodness they are alike - absolutely, the thinking time - it's understood you'll want time to get your balance before you get onto the next peg, so no hassling.

Our most tiresome trait is compulsive Fiddling (broke a computer key in ICT class) - any tips for that??

I say his teacher yesterday afternoon for some strategies to help re his work. She suggested setting him small tasks with small rewards - I asked him to copy out a favourite poem in a set time, neatly as possible. He did OK but everything distracts him (we know this from hw too). She also promised to speak to the special needs co-ordinator - rather reluctantly I might add. We'll see.

This has shocked me, actually I feel a bit sick. Dh and I saw dd's teacher the other day because she has been having problems and we actually said she was lazy because of all the nagging we have to do. I feel terrible now because having read the above list I can see it fits my dd to a 't'. So much so that I've printed off the list and I'm going to show it to dd's teacher when I get a chance (she is in hospital atm).

My 14 year old has dyspraxia. She is good at answering questions verbelly but finds it very dificult to get her ideas down on paper.
This is both to do with poor handwring and just not being able to formulate her ideas quickly.
She is allowed to write answers on the worksheets at school rather then copy out questiuns and answers. She then puts the worksheets in ther books. In English the teacher has told her that she'd rather have a few sentences of good ideas then have a lot of untidy writing. This seems to be working well for her and she has recently been able to finish work at school.
I should talk to your sons teacher again and see if there is anything that bcan be done to help your son.
A lot of children with dyspraxia sem to be lazy but they are not,they just fine it very dificult to get things done. Also children with dyspraxia will have good days and bad days. so just because they could do it yesterday dioesn't mean they are being stubborn when they can't do it today. My daughter needs to practise things several times before she can do it right. She is g improving as she gets older and learning to compesate.

Bink a possible 'cure' for fifddling is a stress ball. I keep some in my dest for compulsive 'fiddlers'