Solicitors yesterday and confused by their advice

[claw4]

Went to see a solicitor yesterday to instruct them on appeal.

As im sure most of you already know, ds has been signed off of school by GP due to stress from school resulting in self harm.

Anyhow he has been off for 2 weeks and already his injuries have cleared up.

Now solicitors advice was for them to write to LA to get ds a school place at a different school. So that assessment ie EP etc could be conducted there.

I told them that school was the cause of his anxiety and self harming. But he was saying this is the best way forward ie EP assessing him at a school, rather than at home and being able to comment about whether school were meeting his needs etc.

What do you guys think?

My daughter had an EP assessment at home in regard to her academics. Not sure what the problem is you can't go dumping him in yet another school which won't be able to meet his needs without a statement - ring round a few solicitors and see if they agree with the advice you have been given?

I dont know any educational solicitors that offer free advice though Wassup, ive just paid £300 for that advice.

Mygladhart, yes it was they only do education.

This advice was based on a 3 hour meeting with me to take history. I also provided copies of all reports etc, maybe once they have looked at reports etc, that advice might change.

I just dont feel comfortable with a solicitor advising me to go against the medical advice from my GP, which is that ds does not attend school without the direction of a statement. (admittedly i put those words into my gp's mouth, as i told him that is what i wanted)

His advice was that an EP wouldnt be able to advice as to whether school were meeting his needs, if he is not in school. He was saying this is the best arguement, rather than EP assessing ds at home and reporting everything is fine with the home environment.

Could an EP not just report on previous school and whether they were meeting his needs and as a result of them not meeting his needs, he cant attend etc? Surely that arguement is just as good?

I agree with you claw on this. Can you ring ACE? contact a family, sosen and see what they advise?

Im trying now Wassup, Ipsea and sossen are always engaged, i will keep trying.

Contact a family usually answer quickly they have educational help lines now x

Spoke to sossen and they agree with me. I phoned solicitor too and explained what i would like to happen ie EP to assess at home and agree school is not meeting his needs, hence making him not be able to attend, to make sure i had made myself clear.

Thanks wassup.

No worries Claw. Glad that others agree.

FWIW - I also think the Sol's advice was wrong.

Agree with everyone with the exception that the EP really SHOULD visit the school, see the peer group, interview the SENCO etc. your Ds doesn't have to be there though.

Claw - when I was preparing for SENDIST a couple of years back, SOS!SEN advised me that it was best that the Ed Psych go into both the school ds was in and the place I wanted ds to get into. The Ed Psych then wrote on how ds was not really communicating with other children in the school, how he was not interacting with his peers in that environment etc and how he coped by copying other children's behaviour without really understanding why they were doing x, y and z.

However, like Starlight suggested, maybe your Ed Psych can get a lot of information without your ds being there.

Glad to hear your ds is doing so well now.

private EP, or LA EP?

I am torn on this one.

dd1 was a totally different child at school than at home (thankfully we did not ever have to deal with the same difficulties you have faced with self harming etc).

we always insisted the LA EP saw dd1 in both settings, so as to be able to report fully - it is always so easy for them to write off loads of stuff under 'expcted level of difficulty communicating' or similar shite.

the only time an EP didn't see her in school (after we had removed her as she was so unsettled there) was a private EP, who knew the setting well, and so havign seen dd1, knew exactly what her issues with the place would have been (and, more to the point, what their issues with d1 woudl have been)

is this an EP who has seen your ds before? at school before you removed him? if not, then you have a situation where the EP is going to see a happier ds, who is interacting well, and comfortable and relaxed (ish). and you might not get the report you need (ie it may well say 'ds is doing fine; his confidence is greatly improved. integration into school is possible')

the biggest weapon we had was the difference in dd1 (her confidence, and settled-ness) between home and (wrong, LA approved) school - the EP had to see ehr in both settings to be able to compare/contrast, otherwise it was all 'mum reports that...' and other bullshit.

but I fully understand why you would not want your ds to set foot in the place again (or any other) without proper support.

As silver says, perhaps he's going with the argument that says (sadly) sometimes you have to demonstrate just how badly a school is failing a child before the LA will do anything (or be forced to by tribunal).

The LA's argument is likely to be that if the EP hasn't assessed the child in the surroundings of school, how could he say that the school is not meeting his needs? The solicitor probably wants to counter this argument before the LA have a chance to use it, as even if they eventually lose the argument they will have wasted more time.

Slightly comparable to me and others here who have fought LAs for ABA funding - the only way we could win ABA funding is to prove progress under ABA vs progress without - which has meant spending some time not doing ABA to demonstrate the lack of progress without iyswim.

But it obviously is very very difficult as you don't - understandably - want to put him back there.

If it's your private EP, perhaps he could advise? He might be able to do as others suggest and visit the school without your ds being there.

yep, agree with bialysotck - the only way we won what we needed for dd1 was to prove that she did not progress/settle/learn anythign at all any other way. it was intolerably hard - putting her into a setting we knew was doing her no good (and indeed did her not inconsiderable harm - we are still, 3 years on, unpicking some of what went on there), in order to win the long-running war.

but as I said, we were not dealing with visible injuries. I am not sure what I would have done in that situation.

god this whole system, where you have to let children fail and regress before the LA will be forced to do anything at all is so shit.

So where's this babee?

wot, me?

arriving next Tuesday. well before the kitchen and anywhere to sleep. oh well.

how's Asteroid?

Lol, - tisn't like you aren't a truly seasoned flexible and creative thinker though!

So excited for you. Got a bit cross at soft play today as there were 2 babies younger than mine!!! And mine has lost his newborn look and put on 2 whole pounds in just a month .

I never was a baby person, but this one is just tops. I never want him to grow.

flexible thinking was never my strongest point, tbh - it's why I hate bastard autism so much, I guess, as it has forced to well out of my comfort zone

2 pounds in a month, eh? well done asteroid! ikwym re: growing fast and losing the newborn look - dd1 did that (born tiny, but grew and grew), whereas dd2 (much higher birth weight) kept a very doll-like delicate look for a looooong time. so 50/50 for the next one!

ah, good to have news of coming silvertadpole. I was wondering if I had missed the announcement. Good luck.

Is the little one sleeping lots Star? And how is your situation now?

Sleep!?

We cosleep though so it isn't so bad. He is starting to wriggle over to me and latch himself on too so I barely have to wake.

Our situation has not concluded but it looks promising. Can't post anything about it on here for the moment. Biggest hold up is our own solicitor!

Claw I can see the tactical reason for an EP seeing him in school tbh. It may be an EP seeing him at home, talking to him, looking at records and perhaps if you could arrange a peer activity to observe would be able to provide some useful info. But what will be missing is the evidence of him not coping in school. I suppose the Solicitor is saying it will help tactically to have that backed up by someone independent.

I can also understand entirely why you may not want to do this. We ran ABA and nursery alongside each other as I could not face the prospect of DS regressing if we stopped ABA for a period to prove failure. But it is always hard to prove something is failing when the child is not there anymore. But your DS may be articulate enough to explain how school made him feel???

Thanks guys, that is what solicitor was saying if EP assesses him at home, she will report everything is fine. Let him go to school, let him start self harming again.

I was saying to solicitor that if EP assesses in new school, it will just be said he is anxious due to changing school 3 times, new school, change etc, etc. Im not sure there would be much to gain. We would still have the same arguement, 'mum is responsible' for his anxiety by keep switching school.

Ds is very articulate, he can come home from school and tell me exactly what he has been anxious about, not the fact that he has been anxious but he is obviously confused by a situation by what he reports to me at the time. But if i ask him right now, what do you worry about in school, he would say nothing.

If i ask him do you have 'friends' he would say yes and reel off names, but his worst nightmare would be these so called 'friends' coming to his house to play or he often complains about how these 'friends' are not nice to him etc, etc.

He really doesnt know what makes him anxious, but it is obvious from all the observations in school, that he is anxious and displays anxious behaviours. It seems school need examples of what anxious behaviours are before they say 'oh yes he does do that'. If asked does he display anxious behaviour they say no, but when given an example of what it is, they say oh yes.

Im not sure what to do for the best.