EP/Scool arguing more than 4 interventions is overload and 1:1 support creates dependency

[KOKOagainandagain]

I am encountering a problem in DS's assessment in that EP and primary/secondary school are arguing that they are not able to meet all of DS's needs all of the time as this would constitute 'overload' and would require him to be removed from too many lessons. However, it is not the right thing to do (they argue) to provide 1:1 support in the classroom as this leads to 'prompt dependency' - their aim is to have as few interventions as possible with as little 1:1 support as possible. We started with this approach five years ago and intervention and support was increased because DS was unable to progress. Has anybody else encountered this mad argument?

In DDs case I agree with them.

She has been removed from too many lessons and has suffered from having too much help from the class TAs.

I think, as Indigo said, it can make sense - in some cases. Like anything, it's a problem when used as a blanket statement or policy, as each child is an individual and 1:1 will suit some more than other, but similarly working out of the classroom will benefit some more than others.

If they don't want too much out of class support and say similar for 1:1 in class support - can you agree on a mix of both that will suit his needs better?

I think it depends on the child. DS2 MUST have FT 1:1 due to his particular needs and safety concerns, so dependency on the TA is not something that can be hugely addressed at this point of his development.

If he is not progressing, then something is obviously in need of changing. Do they have other plans in place to address his lack of progress?

When DS got his statement it was mostly out of classroom help. I removed him and sent him to special school where he spends his whole day in a class with his peers.

When i applied for his statement the SEN officer handed me a scrappy photocopy of a TES article about 1:1 dependency.
I ignored it. It was a blatent attempt to put me off insisting on adequate help.
He doesnt need 1:1 now because he is in a class of 9. If he was in MS he wouldnt be able to cope without it.

A well trained 1:1 will increase independence. They only create dependency if they don't have the skills to be vigilant wallpaper. Mistakes need correcting as and when they happen and then practiced. But first they have to be noticed.

I was promised 1-1 support every afternoon but they now say he will become dependent on it. At the moment he has 3 afternoons a week and I am concerned this may be reduced even more in Y3. Unfortunately, there has been some research published a few years ago that argued that 1-1 support created dependency on the LSA.

You could get the levels of his progress and point out that he is not progressing as he should. You could push for more interventions and find some research or reports that back up the benefits of providing support. An expensive strategy could be to get a private EP report. You could argue that he has had several years of independence and this has had a detrimental effect.

It's very hard to fight against the school and EP. Are there any other professionals that are involved who offer another view?

Starlight - surely it depends on whether the 'mistakes' are behavioural or learning?

If every time my DD writes 'b' instead of 'd' a TA corrects her, she will learn dependence......

Sotira, that research was not supporting a removal of TAs. It was arguing that TAs added little value because many were so poorly trained.

Only if the TA does it for her, not if she is prompted with a reduced level of prompt each time and a celebration when she begins to think a bit longer, self-correct and eventually do it right every time.

Indigo, how else will she learn the difference between d and b?

But by defn TAs aren't as well trained as teachers.

I thought the research was arguing that the more you took children out in small groups to be taught by TAs (instead of teachers) the further behind they fell....

This is of course exactly my experience.

Where possible I would say it is better to keep children in their class as much as possible, allowing them to work with and besides their peers, gaining support as and when needed within the classroom.

Re b/d - maybe some techniques to use themselves. Things like having a little card with the bed picture type thing on and being taught the technique using hands to make bed and showing one looks like b and the other d, etc. Have found the latter VERY useful both with DD a few years ago, and now with a number of children in my Y1 class - great to see them checking themselves in class using their hands.

how else will she learn the difference between d and b? -

• her work could be corrected at the end of the lesson the same as everyone else.

• she could do 5 minutes on distinguishing bs from ds at a separate time.

If her work is corrected more than everyone else's she learns that she is worse than everyone else. She learns she is not good enough to work independently. She learns that she shouldn't write without a TA hovering.

Yes, indigo. That WOULD work for a number of children without SN, and many WITH SN and arguably, if it did, they woukdn't NEED a TA to do it.

But I still disagree that a TA CREATES dependency. Surely the whole point of them is to help create independence, but for as many hours as the child needs that support.

Indigo, a good TA doesn't need to 'correct' though, just support getting it right in the first place until it becomes automatic, with the AIM of getting it automatic, with a plan to, and training to, and support from the class teacher to, and to do so as fast as possible to move on to the next target, or to simply free up resources for the next child ec.

Yep. It was saying that those with the most educational need were being palmed off onto those with the least educational training.

I do think a TA creates dependency.

Now, some children may need to be dependent.

But if your child doesn't......

If your child has a learning difficulty and not an independence problem. If your child is already able to work independently, then a TA creates dependency.

if your child is already independent in life skills and learning, why on earth would they need a TA in the first place?

Or are TAs generally just thought of as baby sitters for disruptive kids?

Indigo, a good TA doesn't need to 'correct' though, just support getting it right in the first place until it becomes automatic, with the AIM of getting it automatic, with a plan to, and training to, and support from the class teacher to, and to do so as fast as possible to move on to the next target, or to simply free up resources for the next child ec.

But learning to write in MS isn't like that. You don't have one target. You have a hundred things you need to learn.

If you're in a MS school your handwriting and spelling and punctuation and grammar and content and genre all need to be adequate.

If the TA just concentrates on teaching you b and d, then you miss out on learning all the other things you need to learn to close the gap.

why on earth would they need a TA in the first place? - well I don't know if the OPs DC does or doesn't need a TA. That's the whole point of the thread.....

I'm arguing that just because a child is behind or very far behind academically doesn't mean they need or would benefit from a TA or a statement.

The research is being quoted in some schools as a reason to reduce funding of TAs. I think that each DC's case should be assessed separately.

The TA wouldn't be JUST focussing on b and d, they'd be focussing on different targets every time the lesson changed (which is why I never understood why IEPs only had 3-4 targets, surely 50-100 woukd be more sensible?).

But there really is no point teaching when and how to use the colon and semi-colon if a child is still at b and d stage (forgive my lack of understanding about literacy, so example might be rubbish, but you get the point that foundation skills need to be mastered before later ones etc.)

Okay, so I think we're in agreement that if the child doesn't NEED a TA, then giving them one is likely to create dependency!?

You see you have got it wrong.

My DD still reverses bs and ds but is also up to learning about colon's.

You don't need to learn literacy skills in order. Foundation skills don't need to be mastered before higher level ones.

Most things don't have to be learnt in order.