Training on Clicker (I think this might be a Moodog question) :)

[coff33pot]

Just received the minutes from the very positive meet I had with Junior School & Co from the LA.

In it mentions Staff to have training on Clicker......

If I am remembering right, would this be the same as the TagTeach that I seem to think it was moondog that put a post up quite a while ago?

If so is it good? would it help a AS/ADHD child of 7 who is able to verbally refuse or avoid what he deems to be a challenge?

Can this be used within the home setting or would it be for something like PE only.

Any advice/comments would be appreciated.

I've no idea what TagTeach is, but the Clicker that my sons' school uses is this literacy software www.cricksoft.com/uk/products/tools/clicker/home.aspx. Nothing to do with PE or behaviour at all.

Does (Tagteach, Clicker Training for people) help Coff33?

I hadn't heard of it, but am really interested and in days of yore I used to use clicker training for dog obedience. I love the simplicity of it and how the progress comes from the subject rather than the trainer, iyswim. No pushing or stress, just gentle steps to gradually shape the correct responses into the desired behaviour. I know it sounds awful but I have always mused over how I could use the same principles to work with ds1 that I used to use with the dogs, because that's something I can do, iyswim. I know in Karen Pryor's book Don't Shoot the Dog she talks about having clicker trained her husband (not with a clicker, but using the same principles) and Sheldon uses it in an episode of The Big Bang Theory to shape Penny's behaviour by rewarding the correct responses/behaviours with a chocolate each time.

Am off to read now.

AH! thanks steelev48

That could well be it seeing as he has SpLD in reading and writing :)

Gone off to study the link now thank you.

This and this make for interesting reading as well.

Oo the plot thickens I found the software Steelev linked to first, but then thought I'd look at the clicker training aspect itself, as you mentioned behaviour.

In terms of school staff having training though I would imaging it's the software rather than clicker training that they were talking about. Had a quick shufty at their website - looks good.

Still, clicker training idea is food for thought for someone like me who is always rather pathetically excited about clicker training.

Coff, it could well be the Clicker that Steel talks of but yes! using an acoustic market as in TAGteach is the business and had helped so many people I know so quickly, easily and cheaply!

I met two lovely MNers at the event I posted about and what was hilarious was that as we went around the room introducing themselves, they said 'Er, we're here because someone called 'Moondog' recommended it' at which I chortled and said 'I am Moondog!'

Surreal moment.

Moose, good likns.
I'm using TAGteach at present to get my dd to keep her mouth closed as advised by the orthodontist for her braces to work.
Instead of nagging her to close her mouth, I simply catch her when she is showing the behaviour I want (closed mouth) and mark it with the clicker.

Dead easy, clear, painless, no whinging or repeating of the same thing over nad over.

Moondog, was this your Birmingham event? I really wanted to go to that but we were booked to go away that weekend.

In moments where my brain decides to work I am really interested in trying to work out if I can use this to work with ds1. I know it should be possible, but can't seem to get my head around how to plan it or get started.

Sorry for the hijack Coff - this has set me off.

Moondog - do you actually use a clicker - or do you pair the reinforcer with a secondary reward?

Ds is quite sound sensitive and having worked with sound sensitive dogs in the past I know how that can throw the whole thing out. Also, he has AS and is pretty high functioning, so I'm worried he would be resistant due to overthinking about the process and asking lots of questions iyswim. Have you known it to be successful with children like ds?

It'll be the software.

They use it with kids who are struggling to write.....

School very proudly showed me DD using it today it was totally the wrong thing for her as she isn't struggling to write

no thats ok moose hijack away! :) Both are interesting to me!

This was what I was concerned about with DS on the fact that he asks so many questions and which way would it work for him.

Incidently I cant stand the suspense on which it is so I have emailed the LA lol!

Damn.
MN went offline and I lost my response.
Birminghma event was something I organised with a uni colleague for MNers.
That was a full on day but great fun!

You don't need secondary reinforcers with most people (this has really amazed me, the way that even individuals with higher needs quickly get that the click means they have done something good.)

The biggest issue for me is it reduces the wash of verbal diarrhoea to which kids with learning issues are assaulted year in year out-someone constantly on and on and on at them.

I've used it with scores of kids, with everything you can imagine.
OT exercises, sports, handwriting, shoe tying, stopping at a kerb, doing up zips, identifying numbers orally.

No limits.

Me too moondog, but I pressed the back button and cut and pasted it back in when it came back online. I obviously spend way too much time on here.

That's what I love about it too. Obviously I have only worked with dogs with it in the past, but I loved the way we could just sit quietly for five minutes and actually learn something whereas with traditional training methods it would all be push, pull, shout, direct etc. I also loved how, with the exclusion of a couple of extremely sound sensitive dogs it worked for any dog, from the brightest German Shepherd to the soppiest, sleepiest Lurcher.

I'd might just have a go and see if I could use it to get ds to eat with his mouth closed. This would have a dual purpose, as it would improve ds's manners and at the same time stop dh yelling at him every five minutes throughout every meal.

Sorry indigo I cross posted (boiled kettle during typing!)

Thank you for that. So if your DD isnt struggling to write is it going to help her in any way? Reading maybe as I see its for reading too?

I can see it helping DS as due to the infants telling him he was faking it (in not being able to reador write)because he could write his name and read it. Stress has caused him to be a total refuser in writing at the moment no matter what I do. UNLESS its numbers because he likes maths :)

I tried that but it was gorn!

What people who train animals are so fab at is keeping language to a minimum which is exactly what so many kids with SEN need.
Peopel laying off them and being given space to think it out for themselves.
You sound like you'd be great.

I use a tally counter like this very often as it makes an audible but much softer click and it counts them up.
So I tell my dd I will do it randomly throughout the day and when it gets to 100, we will have a special treat of her choosing.
Now I just take it from my pocket for her to close her mouth.

I worked for Crick Soft for years. Should anyone want any help with anything re their software let me know.

I've never used the clicker dog trainer thing, although we did used to get some confused calls coming through once in a while .

Funny BH!
Moose, Theresa kicked off the TAGteach seminar in March with that clip.

Ha ha! I just said to dh a tally counter would work better than a 'tagulator', as it counts and clicks at the same time. Great minds think alike I guess!

I'm excited about this now. Thinking of a few dh's behaviours I could use it on as well.

Of course, I should really train the dog to stop barking at every dog that goes past our garden when they're in the park behind first. The neighbours would really appreciate that particular behaviour modification.

It's one of my favourite episodes. I did try hinting to dh that I wouldn't object if he was to shape my behaviour using chocolates, but for some reason he felt it would be detrimental to my diet.

Tagulator is something else.
Leave that to one side for now.

Haaaaaa! I do like the Big Bang Theory :)

Thanks babyheaves Sorry I got two different things going on at the same time on this thread but both are interesting :)

The Clicker 6 link does look good and the package is only £89 as opposed to school prices so I am thinking of getting it for home if that is what they are going to use at school. If I get it beforehand he would have had a chance to experience it before Sept.

I can see how it helps with reading but how does it help with writing? DS has fine motor issues around writing also. I am guessing confidence build up in the reading and building of sentences with keyboard before actual pencil and paper?

If he doesn't like writing, the key is to make writing reinforcing.
Writing shopping lists or the calendar got my kids interested.Now my 11 yr old dd writes a diary every night and hasn't missed a day this year.

She used to despise writing.

Well I was thinking of getting an ipad with a writing app and angry birds. For every complete word he wrote he would earn 2 minutes to store up for angry bird session. BUT they are expensive.

His fathers day card he wrote the word To and his name and the kisses and hugs. It was pen down on the rest even though he had to copy write. We were doing so well with the copy writing when I put his head phones on so the music shuts him in. The difficulty there was he can hear me to READ the words and so he would learn to read them iyswim.

Now school have destroyed his faith completely and he wont so much as look at a pencil before saying "I cant write"

He has transposing issues both back to front and upside down. And numbers are back to front but he also writes double figs write to left

So to be picked on has done damage where it wasnt needed really.