PRU seems good.lEA want me tackett NIL as you can go there without one.

[starfish71]

Went to visit the PRU this morning. It did surprise me to be honest. Seems like they have good staff, quiet environment, similar children to DS, experienced with children 'on the spectrum'.

Just come off the phone with ASD advisory teacher who told me she can see DS doing well there..

Sad she had spoken to head case officer and that reason they haven't given statement is because he doesn't need one to go there.

I cried. I know she works for the LA but she kept saying "do you really want to put yourself through an appeal when he could have everything he needs at the PRU".

I will pick myself up but I am doubting myself now that I will be doing the right thing. BUT I know things can go wrong, that is why we are where we are now. He needs the protection of a statement doesn't he?

Well that is exactly what you get if you appeal isn't it?

They'll put him in until statement which will tak between 5-10 months depending on how many appeals.

The thing is, tribunals and appeals can be as horrendous as you make them. For some of us out Ds' ate going rapidly down hill and we're fighting for their lives so every waking minute is spent on tribunal stuff. You have the luxury of him perhaps being safe whilst you go through the process and you're not currently requesting contentious provision. You might be able to get through most of it a bit more laid back than some and you can withdraw at any time.

Thank you star and leonie, just needed reassurance that this is possible and I have a chance of DS getting the statement xx

Thanks cornysilk, that's good to know! Any tips please pass them on x

some good links on this thread here

Starfish, I'm at risk of sounding like a gungho tribunalist, so do think about it. But, I really woukd worry about the lack of protection and false promises so many of us on here receive and do my best to ensure that didn't happen, or at least when it does, you have a tool to address this.

No star I understand what you are saying. Very grateful from advice from you. I am going to appeal. Having meeting with named officer on Friday, will listen, smile and post appeal on Monday.

Starfish

This will be long but I hope you will take the time to read it carefully.

DS was the same as your DS ? too anxious to attend school. Unlike yours he was signed off by GP. We were also waiting for the outcome of an SA assessment.

LA initially offered home tutoring and then suggested he go to a PRU.

We were told it was a small sheltered environment where children with difficulties could be educated in a safe secure little unit. All very nice. DS went one afternoon. Unfortunately this nice sheltered unit shared it?s grounds with the other element of the PRU ? those who had been excluded from mainstream due to their behaviour and who I was told ?were on their last chance before juvenile detention centre.? One of these little thugs decided to walk into the small sheltered are, abuse the teacher and threaten pupils such as my son and then go outside and throw stones at the window until the Police arrived.

He never went back.

PRUs have one purpose ? to get children straight back into tgheir normal mainstream school as quickly as possible. That?s why the child remains dual-rolled, both at the PRU and their normal school. PRUs are mainstream but are funded centrally by the LA ? so they want the child out and back to their normal school quickly.

Some years ago the Sec of State for Education wrote to all LAs (someone may be able to find the letter online asit originally appeared on the IPSEA website) reminding them that PRUs were not suitable placements for children with longterm special needs. If the child could not be accommodated in mainstream then a specialist placement should be sought.

They also only take children up to age 16 ? end of statutory education. After that you are high and dry as the LA will wash their hands of him. So what he does need is a suitable placement that can provide continuity post-16.

I doubt if he will be able to continue with all his GCSEs. The teaching staff in the PRUs are very limited in the range of subjects and there will probably be no Science lab there to enable him to continue with that subject. DS was doing 11 GCSEs. The PRU could offer on 3 subjects. So yes he can take a limited number of GCSEs there but you?ll be like me trying to find a place where he can go post-16 to take the rest of his GCSEs.

As others have said, the fact that they are even suggesting a PRU strengthens your hand as it proves he could not cope in mainstream and specialist placement is required. However he?s at the age where all the LA want to do is contain him until he reaches his 16th birthday and then he?s no longer their responsibility. That?s when the fight really starts as you yourself would need to find him suitable post-16 education and you wouldn?t have a Statement to describe his difficulties.

So for these reasons alone you must appeal the NIL.
The LA know that what they are doing by suggesting a PRU is contrary to SEN COP. You need to make the LA aware that you know that what they are suggesting is not suitable. Our LA backed off when I did this.

You have very little time to get a Statement. The benefits in doing so are immense as in later life the fact he has a Statement will assist him in application for HE funding and also job-seeking.

Please do not let him go to a PRU that will kick him out at age 16.

Thank you very much wet, am going to sort DS2 out then have a good read. I really want to counter this NIL with the best arguments I can. You are right, DS will need provision after 16 to get support in further education. Thank you, I am listening.

Hi Starfish I was wondering how you were getting on. As I've mentioned on your other thread ds has just started a 'course' at a local PRU as school seem to have 'run out of strategies' . Did you look all around the school and see the children there? Ds's anxiety has got considerably worse since starting. He is in a separate room away from the 'regulars' but they hang around outside smoking and swearing. One boy kept going into their classroom and calling them all little w***s. He has been threatened several times and two boys have been in trouble for plotting to get him alone and 'smash his head in'. PRU's are not required to follow the national curriculum and ds says that the lessons are all too easy - we were told that work would be differentiated according to ability. It is well documented that these are not the best places for children with ASD's as the staff are not trained to deal with their difficulties. Ofsted's annual report in 2006 says ?Increasingly, PRUs are receiving pupils with statements of special educational need, who in the past might have been placed in schools for pupils with educational and behavioural difficulties. PRUs are often ill-equipped to cope with these pupils who have complex behaviour difficulties as well as a statement of SEN. Indeed, they were not designed to admit such pupils;? In July 2006, in a report on SEN and Inclusion, Ofsted identified PRUs as the least effective place for children with SEN to be educated.

I don't want to worry you but once your ds is there how easy will it be for him to get out again?

Oh and forgot to mention my ds does have a sm but it is 'disregarded' there and not something they look at.

Thank you desperatelywanting I am taking note of everything and trying to build a strong case against this.

How can they not even look at your son's statement? that is awful. Found some guidance on the welsh assembly site about PRU's so hoping that will help me. God I have some work to do. Going to take younger DS up now but hope to come back on if he goes to sleep quickly. Thank you x

WET am going to try and search for that letter! but if anyone finds it before me let me know, thank you x

Star - I think it was a DfES Circular from back in the 1990's. Either Circular 9 or 10. Whether it's still extant or not I don't know. But the references that Desperately gave you e.g. Ofsted should be traceable.

But your arguments should be : not suitable for pupil with longstanding SENs, lack of oportunity to continue with all GCSEs,lack of input specific to ASD, need for continuity, etc etc

I found this has a fair bit of useful ammo info here

Thanks wet and desperately, that is very useful. Am in Wales so am trying to make sure it is all relevant to my " wonderful" LEA,

I am so worried named officer will try and make me look stupid on Friday but I am going to piece everything together ready to post off my appeal.

Honestly am taking in everything that is posted.

have only skim-read thread, so apologies if I missed important points, but I wouldn't touch a PRU with a bargepole without a Statement (which will give you options, should the placement fail).

I have worked in PRUs:

a) they are not long term solutions - the whole aim of them is to support children in a transition from one provision to another

and b) they are extremely changeable - the nature of a PRU will change dramatically depending on the children in its care. To give you an example I currently work in a PRU where, 6 mths ago, half of the children had SEN (predominantly AS and ADHD). Fast forward to now, and we are dealing almost entirely with children with offending behaviour (so involved in the criminal justice system), largely from extremely troubled families. A whole different kettle of fish, and the atmosphere and overall aims of the provision have changed drastically.

In short, I do not believe a PRU is the right place for a child with SEN long term.

Thanks for posting that Bow Group link Desperately. It was interesting (and depressing) reading.

You can use some of the refernces in it Star but I'd concentrate on the fact that PRUs are just a dumping ground for children with SENs that cannot be supported in mainstream and for whom the LA have chosen the cheap option for their education. It's negligent.

The Bow Group article was co-authored by my own MP - which is actually quite heartening for the next time I go banging on to him about my difficulties

No they have just assumed that it is what is best for DS. Trying to get my brain in gear this morn..

my DS is in a PRU and has been there since the start of this yr, he has got ODD, CD, SEBD, and we have no statement for him which we felt was also needed, he should be going into yr10 in sept, to start his gcse years. but they will not let him back into MS school. im still not sure on whats happening with him for sept yet and its not that far off them finishing.

Oh god Alison that doesn't sound good! Have you applied for a statement?

...just bears out my opinion that they are just dumping grounds for children the LA refuse to acknowledge have chronic SENs.

Alison - it's not quite too late to get him a Statement. But you'd have to appy now. LAs are reluctant to issue them in tghe last few years of Stat Ed - but it can be done.