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what would you make of this?

34 replies

claw4 · 12/06/2012 17:26

Currently doing a chronology and i found the following on school file.

I wrote to SENCO after ds told me he was made to lick mash potato in school and he was crying and very distressed, but he was told if he didnt lick it, he would get a detention (after i had told school a few days before as part of his OT eating plan, the food to avoid would be mashed potato)

SENCO approached me in the playground and stated that this never happened.

On school file i have found an email from OT asking SENCO how his eating plan is going and SENCO has replied saying he has tried lots of sweet food ie cake, some bread, but that he does not like mashed potato!!!

Do you think OT and SENCO have had a previous conversation about my letter and SENCO is just being a smart arse and taking the piss out of my letter?

Or that ds was actually made to lick mashed potato?

Or am i going mad, why would she make a reference to mashed potato?

OP posts:
bochead · 12/06/2012 17:29

I believe your son - or why would the SENCO even mention mashed tatty?

zzzzz · 12/06/2012 17:32

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

TheLightPassenger · 12/06/2012 17:33

have to say your son's account sounds utterly credible to me, unfortunately.

TheLightPassenger · 12/06/2012 17:33

I don't think Senco is taking the piss btw, agree with zzz about that.

Ineedalife · 12/06/2012 17:35

What is your gut feeling *claw, If Dd3 told me something like that I would be inclined to believe her. [If Dd1 told me I would be highly doubtful.]

Dd3 used to tell me that she wasn't allowed to leave the hall until she had eaten everything in her box, so she used to have to sit there throughout the lunch hour.

I know there are school staff out there who lie to cover their backs, I have experienced it as have others on the board.

You are right about the letter though, why would she mention it??

claw4 · 12/06/2012 17:44

Ds does get things wrong, especially with the naming of things, particularly food.

For example, the food that he does like, he calls jaffa cakes - pancakes, pringles -round things, choco hoops - circles. So he might not know that mashed potato is actually called mashed potato, espcially as he has never eaten it before. I was giving school the benefit of the doubt, as he may have been given something else, but thought it was called mashed potato.

But SENCO's story wasnt right. The idea of ds's eating plan was that he was to choose an item of food to eat, he would never choose himself anything that he didnt want to eat in the first place.

I think school were getting pissed off with him choosing cake, bread or chips everyday, as this is what he eats at home already and wanted to show OT that they could do something in a few weeks that i havent managed to do in 8 years.

I think they did make him lick mash potato, as ds wouldnt have been aware that the plan was for him to look at the food for a few weeks, then choose, then progress to licking. As school hadnt got passed the first state of him agreeing to choose something other than cake, bread or chips.

Is this proof though?

OP posts:
claw4 · 12/06/2012 17:51

When i say proof, i am not about to go rushing into school about something that happened months ago, but i could use it as just another example of school not being able to follow recommendations in my SA appeal, if i have to make one.

OP posts:
StarlightMaJesty · 12/06/2012 18:09

I believe your Ds, but can't see how that note is evidence that you can use in that way.

StarlightMaJesty · 12/06/2012 18:12

Claw, you have lots of good and straightforward evidence. Don't dilute it with this kind of stuff or detail that requires the panel to have to think too hard.

TheLightPassenger · 12/06/2012 18:39

unfortunately I think star is right, you can just see their explanation now - of course I wouldn't give mini claw mashed potato, I was just confirming exactly what claw told me, that he doesn't like mashed potato.

claw4 · 12/06/2012 18:41

Im only half way through doing my chronology, im including everything at this point, every last little thing, then once im done i will cull!

Eating plan that was agreed with OT from feeding clinic, myself and SENCO was ds was to be showed the food on the hot dinners menu ie paper copy for 3 full weeks, he would then be asked to identify a food he would be prepared to try, one a week. With an exit strategy of me dropping off a packed lunch into school, after ds on that day so that he had something to eat if he didnt want to eat anything from the hot dinner menu.

School next day took ds to the dinner counter, where he choose cake to eat. He choose cake or bread to eat for the next 2 weeks. He was never shown a hot dinner menu. That was the whole point, he has been eating cake and bread for the last 8 years. The idea was to try and expand his eating.

I think school then realised they had fucked up big time and then tried to force him to eat mash, so they could report to OT he was trying 'hot dinner'.

Whether they did force him to eat mash or not, i suppose the point is they cannot follow a recommendation, as they think they know best. I thought included this would be a good example?

Also because of their reporting of ds making great progress and mum just makes it up, he eats in school, the eating clinic then discharged ds.

OP posts:
madwomanintheattic · 12/06/2012 18:48

Well, it does look that way, but tbh she was telling the ot - ie she was emailing the ot to tell her that he doesn't like mashed potato as part of the report as to how things were going. So the ot (who has devised the whole sensory programme) surely would just have emailed back and said 'oh, just a reminder, we aren't doing that yet'.... Surely?

I'm actually heartened that there is communication between the ot and the senco, but I may be a bit weird. It isn't as though she 's trying to hide anything from the ot? I suspect if you try to use it as proof they can't follow your instructions, they will just point to the liaison between professionals and say everything was above board and done in conjunction with ot...

Dd2 had a lot of issues with texture, and mashed pots were the last thing to be tolerated. We self led a programme that would be similar to what the ot is suggesting for you. These days she can eat it fine, but it did take a lot of hard work!

StarlightMaJesty · 12/06/2012 18:50

Well if the story can be made simple and you have other evidence to support it then perhaps include it. But IME the panel are likely to be imbeciles who won't understand the point you are making if it is complex, so be careful.

TheLightPassenger · 12/06/2012 18:53

the way madwoman interpreted it, as an impartial observer, shows exactly the sort of positive spin school could credibly put on the note at tribunal etc.

claw4 · 12/06/2012 19:37

Yes i hadnt seen it that way, i was thinking along the lines of how would they know he doesnt like mash, unless he had been given mash! I hadnt seen it from the other perspective.

Star is right everything, about everything to do with ds is so damn complicated and needs to be explained in great detail for people to get the gist of and this is how a Tribunal would see it too.

I wrote to school reminding them of the plan, the plan had been in place for 2 weeks and already ds was getting stressed by it, where they were just doing their own thing. He now doesnt have the plan at all and hasnt eaten anything at all in school since Easter last year.

I wrote to school after the plan had been in place for 2 weeks, as ds was getting very distressed by it all.

I wrote Ds was feeing very anxious and told me that he had to eat mash, he said he didnt choose it and didnt want to eat it and that he became upset and was crying, but was told he had to lick it. He feels that if he doesnt he will be reprimanded.

I appreciate that ds does get confused easily and that he may not have been given mash to eat at all, as he can get confused with the names of foods. Could you confirm what was choose for him.

I said whether his version of events was entirely accurate or not was not important, but i was concerned that ds feels he has no say in the strategy and he feels there is no exit strategy if he did not like the food or didnt want to eat it.

He immediately restricted his diet at home and refused to eat at all.

I told them ds was clearly confused by the situation and he feels he will be punished for not agreeing to eat. I asked could they reassure him this was not the case.

He was also confused and was expecting to eat cake everyday. He needs clear expectations and needs to know what will happen next to avoid him becoming anxious. I aksed could they involve him more and explain to him what is going on.

I also told them given the injuries he had already caused himself that term could we try to keep anxieties to a minimum.

Its written on school file that the same day, SENCO asked ds were you told you would get a detention and did you tell your mum x,y,z. Ds said no.

SENCO came storming over to me in the playground that day too and told me not to write to school and what was i accusing them off etc, etc. Although she could not tell me what he did eat on the day in question.

I tried explaining again that ds feels he has to eat and he thinks this is what would happen. He was finding it confusing and that i was requesting school reassure ds, explain things to him and involve him in it.

But they just dont 'get it' they dont understand why he gets anxious, they think they can charge in and cure him in 2 weeks and it will have no affect on him.

Perhaps im better off just leaving it out, but im betting school will say that ds doesnt eat in school because he doesnt have the eating plan in place.

My head is hurting just thinking about it!

OP posts:
mycarscallednev · 12/06/2012 19:51

They can be nasty at school - I would go with the childs version - my son - then 6 was told to 'jump, stand on one leg, and throw a ball' - to show the others 'how NOT to do it' - and this was when I was IN the PE class 'helping out'! I couldn't believe what I was hearing - bloody effing evil bastards! [Now Home Ed-ing - not surprisingly!!].

claw4 · 12/06/2012 19:53

Can i condense that to the eating plan didnt work because school didnt follow the recommendations?

OP posts:
StarlightMaJesty · 12/06/2012 19:56

Because the school didn't understand the recommendations and how to apply them to the complex needs of your Ds.

claw4 · 12/06/2012 20:06

Star, is that going to be enough without having to explain why or can i just refer to my letter to school?

I have appointment with solicitor next month, but even he isnt a mind reader, im going to have to explain why im saying that?

Mycars Wow in front on you, im shocked. Home ed wil be my next step, if my statement request isnt successful. Its not that i dont believe ds, its more a question of what i can prove and what good it will do ds, even if i can prove it.

In fact im not even trying to prove it, im just trying to get my head around how to use it to my advantage iyswim.

OP posts:
AgnesDiPesto · 12/06/2012 22:27

I think you stick to the lack of progress argument for the appeal.

Eating programme started on x date and zero progress in y months.
If school say that he has made progress then you can pull out the evidence to show their story doesn't stack up - as thats when you are stuck with the 'well he may not eat at home but he does in school' crap.

But I think to start with you just state the facts - he still does not eat a wider diet and therefore the eating programme has not worked and more specialist input / support is required - and wait and see what the LA / school come up with in response. And then you rip that apart.

I agree do a chronology for you though - it will save you time later.

For the appeal you just have to list the objectives in NIL / IEP and state what progress has been, if any, and why this is inadequate and then say what extra support would help achieve progress that is appropriate

claw4 · 13/06/2012 01:37

Cheers for that Agnes, this version is more my copy, i like to write everything down, to get things straight in my own head, then sort out which bits i am going to use iyswim. It is probably a arse about face way of doing things, but it helps me to make sense of it all!

But really appreciate your comments, i have scribbled them all down and it will help me very much when it comes to sorting though what bits to use.

OP posts:
mariamariam · 13/06/2012 14:30

Agnes, can we clone you and distribute one 'Agnes copy' each to ervyone facing tribunal???

StarlightMaJesty · 13/06/2012 14:56

Claw, I do that too.

Just make sure you do a huge amount of culling at the end. You're points need to be strong and clear, not a long whiny list of wrongs iyswim (not suggesting you do this, but the emotional aspect of eating mash or not, is much stronger within you than a tribunal panel woukd feel)

claw4 · 13/06/2012 17:05

Thanks Star ive just finished my chronlogy, its like ground hog day, ive come full circle.

Hopefully this time round, i wont be so defensive and treat it more matter of fact. So far i have been the 'reasonable' one.

Chronlogy is 11 pages long, so i need to shorten this, its difficult as there have been so many events, professionals etc. I have just written date and a brief description. I now have to go back over it again and figure out which are the really important events, which to leave in, which to take out.

I think in going to leave chronlogy long for now and begin to write what Agnes suggested and then go back to chronology and see what matches up and then back and forth between the two, until the are both concise.

Any more suggestions greatly received!

OP posts:
StarlightOverJuicy · 13/06/2012 17:08

The ones you leave in, need to be the ones with the strongest and easiest to understand evidence.