ds has punched me in the face again, I can't deal with this any longer.

[popgoestheweezel]

ds (6) has just punched me in the face again as I was putting him to bed, and I'm just feeling like I can't handle him now.

He is so difficult, nothing but angry and aggressive and grumpy and uncooperative and defiant and mean and miserable and violent. It just drains every bit of energy from me and ruins our family life. Every moment of time with him is poisoned by his anger, frustration and aggression.
I spend all my time and energy thinking of ways to help him, being endlessly patient and sometimes it feels like we're making real progress but then it always goes wrong again.
I can't help but constantly think how much nicer our life would be without him in it. That makes me feel terrible but I really wish we'd never had him. dd (8) is such a delight to be with; fun and happy and well mannered and kind, ds is just horrible, horrible, horrible.
I can't help looking round at other people who I can see are quite frankly crap parents, they let their children eat rubbish, watch tons of tv, interact negatively and still their children behave better than our ds. I have always done everything the 'right' way and not chosen the easy option. Both dc were breastfed til 11mths, weaned on homemade organic food, we've always restricted their tv, made sure they had plenty of exercise, spent loads of time with them read with them, played with them, their wellbeing has always been our priority, it has produced dd who is such a pleasure to be with and ds who is no pleasure at all. Now we are faced with a growing 6 yo who has no hesitation in punching me in the face if he is unhappy over the tiniest thing. How the fuck am I going to deal with him in the future??
I worry so much about him but sometimes I just think I can't do it anymore, I can't deal with the responsibility of 'fixing him' its fucking impossible and he's just going to turn into the most unpleasant anti-social adult and I cannot bear the thought of having to deal with this for the rest of my life.

Hi pop, sorry you are going through this, it sounds really difficult.

Does your DS have a diagnosis, i am sorry if you have posted about him before but i cant remember.

I'm new to this board but I just wanted to send some hugs. I've spent the last 2 years being screamed at, shouted, hit, rudeness, ranting etc. It's not fun, it's draining constantly. She has good moments and those keep me going, but I did wonder where I went so wrong. We always seem to be 'that' family when out in public. DS is the opposite and if it wasn't for him, I would put 100% of the 'blame' onto me.
The GP and CAMHs were utter crap so we went privately and got the diagnosis we were expecting.

OP, does your DS have a diagnosis?

OP, there have been several times I could have written your post. Diagnosis helped, medication was useful, oddly enough getting middle rate DLA gave me confidence (i think it was the realisation that even the govt thinks this isn't just parenting). We had some respite last year, only an after school club but it really helped too.

Have you read 'the explosive child?'. I liked 123 magic as well, the magic was just having something so simple that I could continue calmly applying it whilst being attacked. Oh, and not forgetting counselling and medication for me as my coping skills were shot.

No diagnosis as yet but we have had two appts with two diff peads in the space of 12 mths since referral. First one (locum) was absolutely useless but the second has referred ds for ed psych and salt assessments as well as blood tests being done etc etc. The problem is that I don't expect much help even if we do get a diagnosis in the end. I guess I'm just feeling really negative atm.
I have read the explosive child and it was helpful but at times there is no dealing with him no matter what. 123 magic is actually very provoking for him and it seems to wind him up into further frenzies which always end horribly, usually with damage to person or property. I am the fucking queen of patience but even I have run out of reserves today.

I was told by a child psychologist that it was Ok to show them just how angry you were about their behaviour.

What punishment do you usE?

The consequences are time outs, on saturday afternoon he had about 11 and then in the end we just put him to bed early. He generally throws a load of stuff around and kicks the door and stuff but i leave him to it as long as i think he is safe.
Timeouts don't work to discourage the behaviours though, he will just come out of the timeout and do exactly the same again, its almost like it encourages bad behaviour but we have nothing else. He is impervious to other consequences like missing out on activities and confiscation of toys.
We have tried reward charts too but these, just like 123 magic seem to aggravate him and make him even more angry.
We have had a family support worker who gave us some techniques (ones we had already tried). We tried them again hoping her guidance would make a difference but they didn't help one bit. She signed us off and we went to see the paed.

FWIW pop, timeout doesn't work here either.

I know you say have a diagnosis might not help but it has really helped us as a family to accept that there are some behaviours that Dd3 cannot help.

Star charts etc don't work for Dd3 and they didn't for Dd1 either, she could manipulate them to get the stickers and then as soon as she had the sticker she would do the unwanted behaviour.
She has no Dx either.

What works with Dd3 is visuals, she has a yellow and red card system in place at home although I am the only person who uses it but then again I do most of the child care anyway so there you go.

I show her a yellow card to help her to understand that I am finding her behaviour unacceptable. If she gets a red card she has to leave whatever she is doing and go somewhere else.

she also has a visual timetable for getting ready to go to school in the morning as this was a big flashpoint in our house which always led to lots of shouting.

Big consequences in this house just lead to loads of meltdowns. I try not to let things escalte too much and I nearly always try the walking away approach first.

Does your Ds have a safe space where he could go and thump pillows or something instead of taking it out on you.

Keep coming on here, there are usually more people around with ideas, sorry this is so long.

The best bit of advice I was given was by a MH nurse who suggeste we treat Dd3 as if she had autism even without a dx, the strategies can do no harm and for us they work. It is all about visuals in our house.

She was eventually after 3.5 years dxed with ASD last spetember and she is 9, don't give up.

Try to be kind to yourself

I was told by a child psychologist not to use 123 Magic on a child who has AS (not saying that this is the case for your child however) and was aggressive/violent.

Choices and consequences can work. 'When you hit me I will walk away from you'. In general I find that rather than time out in his room (which DS1 hates and makes him even angrier) removing myself, DS2, DH from the room where DS1 is works better. Coupled with 'I/we cannot be in the same room as someone who is hitting/swearing/whatever the behaviour is. When you are calm I will come back.

Hard as it is, you need to stay calm yourself while you do this. Don't forget he is in his own reality and cannot think about what yours is. If you can speak calmly, using few words and a stock phrase that you use every single time, it will help him to learn to calm down and then when all is calm you can say 'in this house our rule is that we do not hit'. You can even have that written up on the wall, with a picture of a hitting hand with a cross through it.

It can help the child to see that you are really hurt -- when DS1 saw blood dripping from my arm and that I was crying it did have a big effect on him. But this only works occasionally. He may be frightened by your emotions, and be unable to distinguish worry/hurt/upset/angry in you.

I feel for you as I have been there too. The negative thoughts and worry for the future (both for the child and parents) are in some ways the hardest part! Sometimes my own fear and distress at my seemingly ineffective parenting is part of the problem!! My son is 12 now and has some very lovely qualities including kindness to me ( most of the time)- but in those early years when nothing seemed to work and you are taking the brunt of whatever is causing the aggression and demand avoidance it is hard!

Well my son does now have a string of Dxs to his name (ASD ADHD MLD). The exact list does not matter - but the Dxs do guide in understanding where his difficulties lie. My son for instance has poor impulse control - he hand/ foot can do things before his brain has caught the thought - like a short circuit -IYSWIM. Knowing this helps me not take sudden wild movements too personally but help him learn to intervien. And as he has got older he has learnt to 'pull his punches'. We are working with an OT to reduce his retained primative reflexes and sensory difficulties. He also cannot imagine things from anothers point of view - so if for instance the act of squeezing (pinching) my arm does not hurt his hand in the doing, he will not realise it is hurting me - and can be upset when I yelp! He has difficulties processing language so gets easily confused and out of his depth. He needs little gaps ( the 6 second rule) between short positive instructions to have a chance of 'hearing' what is said to him. Because of his confusion he needs routines, visual reminders, hand signals, warnings and all sorts of little supports to help him anticipate what will happen next and later.

Anyway the most important thing is to stay calm, do not take it personally (very hard I know) and try to actively notice the sucsesses ( both yours and ds) - Black humour can help - thinking to myself 'ds did not hit me after the dentist today woo hoo!' whilst praising ds for managing to keep calm.

You know yourself that your parenting is good. (hug)

By the way I also find walking away ( no eye contact or words) work better than enforcing moving ds to a time out zone, especi.

He has no empathy at all. He might have given me a huge nosebleed and made me cry with the pain but he wouldn't be sorry or Ashamed at what he'd done. He never genuinely apologises, just says the words because we insist.
He would follow us if we walked away and ignoring him provokes him too.
More visual reminders might help. I will try that.
I do need a bloody break from it but we have extended half term coming up so 10 long days to get through with him

My Dd's never apologise either pop, i dont bother to try to get one as it just causes a stand off and they dont mean it anyway.

Lack of empathy is a big problem in our house it is due to poor theory of mind. In Dd3's case she is completly unable to imagine what another person feels or thinks and is often confused when we dont know what she is thinking.

Dd2 is completly different, she has suffered many times at the hands of her sisters, just last week the eldest reduced her to tears by letting her down. Dd1 had no idea she had done anything.

Just wondered, do you keep a diary of your Ds's behaviour issues. I would really recommend it. The proffs sat up and took notice for the first time when i produced written evidence, dated and timed of all Dd3's issues. Record what caused it and how you dealt with it too if you can. Because it can help to find out what is causing the problem.

I would try the visual stuff, we have posters for respecting peoples personal space and usijg kind words. I also have a picture social story for treating people with respect. I use the red and yellow cards when things are starting to escalate.

It's really hard this Pop

I've been punched in the eye, scratched, pinched enough to leave wounds twice in the past 10 days. As Ineeda says, it DOES help to have the dx so that either I can keep myself calm by remembering that he can't help it or someone else can remind me that he can't help it. He can't help the lack of empathy as much as he can't help the violence in the first place. I needed someone to remind me of that - I had got so caught up in the emotion of being punched full blast in the eye that I had forgotten.

I'm going to try the red and yellow cards to see if it helps. I did give him Time Out cards to use but they didn't work.

I would really push for an OT assessment as well. In your OP you say he is over-reacting to the tiniest things- that sounds quite like sensory modulation difficulties.

pop {hugs} I know what you mean when you say you "did everything right" and you see other parents who dont give a crap and their clever, pleasant dc and feel so angry and envious and sad.

Its tough. Very tough.

I dont like thinking thoughts like that but I would be lying if I said I didnt. Prior to ds1's dx of severe dyslexia I called him, variously, "lazy", "naughty" and "stupid" I am very very ashamed of it but I was at the end of my tether and had various HTs, teachers, TAs and senco telling me I was imagining Ds1's issues

I have no advice at all, but I just wanted to let you know you arent alone x

Oh my god. I read OP?s post and recognized every word of this. I can exactly copy paste your post OP, the only difference my DS1 is only 4. He bit our nanny yesterday (again) and she said she will not come back if it happens again. Of course, it will happen again. We have to look for alternative options..
In general, it has been very tough with DS1, but somewhat easier since I realized that he cannot help his tantrums & anger & impulsiveness & aggression. It comes out of nowhere and goes away to nowhere. As somebody mentioned here, you can be left hurt and in a mess, and he is already in his best mood.
He can be very nice by the way, loves helping me with things when in a good mood, is a good sleeper and eater and generally follows routine quite well.
I realize DS1 has a behavior problem, but at this point I cannot get over myself and go for diagnosis. I do not want him to be diagnosed. I am afraid to officially admit there is something wrong with him. I just want him to grow out of it and be normal. I am just not ready for this?.. yet?.

I have been blaming myself for bad parenting (even though I probably put more efforts than those parents with lovely behaved children) and maybe stress/diet during my pregnancy with DS1, but my rational mind says it is probably not related.

Now seeing from a different perspective, I have some self-control/anger/impulsiveness issue myself, and perhaps it helps me a little to understand my son. I have not grown out of it, even though it calmed quite a lot since I am in my 30ties, and I learned how to manage myself. The people around me would describe as a very calm and quiet person. But I do explode sometimes when triggered.. and DS1 is unfortunately a trigger sometimes. I used to want to physically hurt my ex during our arguments? it was my way of expressing emotion and it was not right. Thanks god I am much calmer and wiser now. It helped a lot that my current husband does not go into arguments with me ? he would just walk away and does not engaged in any heated conversation. I have now realized how right it is for me. So nowadays I often try to look at the situation, as if it was myself instead my son, and what way would be the best to calm me down. Sometimes it helps.
On the positive side and especially those worried for DC future, I am very intelligent and bright person with a good career. I never struggled with my studies or homework. Maths has been my passion from school. I have a quite narrow social circle of friends, but these are the best for me. I like to stick with routine, then I am the happiest person.
My life path was massively affected by my parent?s right choice of school for me and the fact that I did not have any bad influence from peers. I was than able to focus on studies and career and have been doing well. In personal life, I have made tons of rushed personal decisions, but it really helps for me as I get older and wiser? no more silly decisions.
I realize now as I write this post, that in a way my son is so similar to me. I can understand that my son may just feel the same, just his emotions are probably 100 times stronger than mine. And my hopes are that he will grow out of it.

By the way, my DS2 is nothing but pure delight :)

I spent years blaming myself for my DS behaviour he was violent and agressive from 2 and I ashamedly decided to put him in nursery as I couldn't cope with being attacked by a two year old.

I had two older children both girls who were lovely and well behaved couldn't understand how I could have failed so badly with DS. He was diagnosed with ADHD and he also has undiagnosed "ASD traits". He changed our lives and we became an inward looking family instead of the outgoing one we had always been. By the way I always thought of the time outs as space for me not him and if it meant holding the bedroom door closed while kicked the hell out of it at least it was just a door and not me!!

Now that I have got all that off my chest the good news is that he is now 11 he is rarely violent or aggressive, the swearing is hard to take sometimes but I always thought that anything would be better than violence (and it is) but we are working on moderating his speech. The medication helps a lot.

We do now go out as a family mainly special occasions. It will always be hard and I don't think I will ever get my head round it if I am honest, but I love him and I have always told him so especially after the huge meltdowns that he used to have. He would be crying and I would be crying and we make friends until the next time.

Please know that there is a light at the tunnel, sometimes on a bad day that light can seem very far away, but keep moving forward and remember that things will get better.

^Badvoc Wed 30-May-12 18:32:53

pop {hugs} I know what you mean when you say you "did everything right" and you see other parents who dont give a crap and their clever, pleasant dc and feel so angry and envious and sad.

Its tough. Very tough.

I dont like thinking thoughts like that but I would be lying if I said I didnt. Prior to ds1's dx of severe dyslexia I called him, variously, "lazy", "naughty" and "stupid" I am very very ashamed of it but I was at the end of my tether and had various HTs, teachers, TAs and senco telling me I was imagining Ds1's issues

I have no advice at all, but I just wanted to let you know you arent alone x ^

Another poster here with exactly the same experience. I even have a mother who was a primary school teacher for 30 years. Trust me, all behavioural strategies have been used in this house! That wouldn't have taken away his AS.

Are you OK? You haven't been back to the thread for a while.

Pop - just wanted to send you hugs as well.

Sorry it's all so hard :( :( :( :(

Sorry, I meant to italic there

Hugs from me OP. I understand you completely.
My son does not have AS and does show empathy, but he is unable to handle his bursts of anger. He has not hit me, thankfully, but it is so tiring dealing with the defiance everyday all the time.
I also breastfed for ages, always give healthy meals, limit tv, try to be as good parent as possible, but I have come to realise that there is some sort of chemistry in the brain of my son that doesn't help his impulse control and makes him lash out.
When I am not tired, I try to ignore and wait for him to calm down.
My biggest worry now is the effect this will have on my youngest son.
xx