Mumsnet/KIDS support session on special needs and education: THIS THURSDAY, 9pm

[RowanMumsnet]

Hello there,

We're pleased to announce that the second support session with members of KIDS staff will be held this Thursday evening between 9pm amd 10pm (in the hope that this will avoid most kids' bed-times!). The topic for Thursday's session will be education and related issues. (You can see the first session here.)

KIDS is a national charity working with disabled children, young people and their families across England. The KIDS staff at the session will be Sue Cawkwell (KIDS Regional Director for Yorkshire and Lincolnshire), and SEN specialists Rosemary Foster and Dave Lison.

The idea of these support sessions is to complement the advice and support that Special Needs posters already give each other with the insight and experience of people working for an organisation in the field. We hope that the session will pull together perspectives and advice from MNers and from KIDS staff, and that the thread will serve as a reference point for posters looking for advice about SEN.

It would be great to have as many of you as possible join us 'live' on Thursday evening, but if you can't make it, please also post up any advance questions for here.

We'd really appreciate your feedback on these sessions, so if you can find the time to fill in a survey after the session, that would be great - it's open to lurkers as well as posters - to everyone who has seen the thread.

Thanks,
MNHQ

I have a school who will not adhere to a statement. I have a school who illegally excluded for half days from dec onwards. I have a school who like a drop of a hat tells a 6yr old that he cant go on a school trip the day before the trip without a full risk assessment. Basically disability discrimination all round.

This school is an Academy. It wasnt when statement was applied for but was by the time they received the funding for it.

I cannot afford to fight the system its too big and its too expensive which is heartbraking as the system lets me down and so I am letting my son down.

Can you tell me how is this green paper going to stop all this stuff going on? How is allowing the parents to hold the payments (vouchers) going to help if you cannot get the school to accept or abide by anything? What reinforcement is going to be put into place to make sure it is going to be better than what we dont have already. And now there are Academies out there that are not answerable to the LA.

Sorry for a deep question :)

thank you

Have searched all over the DofE website and can't find any individual school funding agreements. I reckon we would have to do our own FOI request to get hold of it.

Coff33 has said it all really. We are just parents, no power or funds to fight a hopelessly unenforceable system - how is the Green Paper going to change all that - or is it?

@coff33pot

I have a school who will not adhere to a statement. I have a school who illegally excluded for half days from dec onwards. I have a school who like a drop of a hat tells a 6yr old that he cant go on a school trip the day before the trip without a full risk assessment. Basically disability discrimination all round.

This school is an Academy. It wasnt when statement was applied for but was by the time they received the funding for it.

I cannot afford to fight the system its too big and its too expensive which is heartbraking as the system lets me down and so I am letting my son down.

Can you tell me how is this green paper going to stop all this stuff going on? How is allowing the parents to hold the payments (vouchers) going to help if you cannot get the school to accept or abide by anything? What reinforcement is going to be put into place to make sure it is going to be better than what we dont have already. And now there are Academies out there that are not answerable to the LA.

Sorry for a deep question :)

Hi Coff33

If you feel any school, state. academy etc has discriminated against your child you can appeal to a tribunal re disability discrimination ie not allowing your child to go on a school trip, You can at the same time put the case to the tribunal that a reasonable adjustment should have been made in relation to your childs needs. Some parent parent partnership services will help, IPSEA also provide representation, the local legal centre can give advice and some solicitors will take on cases under legal aid.
The childrens legal centre may offer help 0808 802 0008

In terms of the green paper it;s difticult to know at this stage as the pathfinders have only just begun to test out the new single assessment, personal budgets in education etc.

@moosemama

Have searched all over the DofE website and can't find any individual school funding agreements. I reckon we would have to do our own FOI request to get hold of it.

Coff33 has said it all really. We are just parents, no power or funds to fight a hopelessly unenforceable system - how is the Green Paper going to change all that - or is it?

Hi Moose they are all listed - every one in the country. Dave is just checking for you now

Our LEA is a pathfinder - ds has just been given a statement (well is still at the proposed stage as they are refusing to quantify) and we haven't been told a thing about personal budgets.

@SueCawkwell

[quote moosemama] Have searched all over the DofE website and can't find any individual school funding agreements. I reckon we would have to do our own FOI request to get hold of it.

Coff33 has said it all really. We are just parents, no power or funds to fight a hopelessly unenforceable system - how is the Green Paper going to change all that - or is it?

Hi Moose they are all listed - every one in the country. Dave is just checking for you now

[/quote]

Hi go to DoE website - in search box top right type in academy funding agreements then a full list of all academies appears

Similar situation to devientenigma, we have a ds who has a statement and a place at special school but who has refused to attend for the last few months (due to anxiety issues).

Relevant legislation "access to education for children and young people with medical needs" says children who are absent from school due to illness for more than 15 days should have provision made to allow them to access education by alternative means - this could include hospital school, home tuition, in a PRU setting or internet support. It sets the minimum support to be provided at 5 hours tuition per week but emphasises that the only upper limits should be those imposed by the child's illness.

In practice (and in our personal experience) our LA's practice until recently was to provide 5 hours as the standard with perhaps a couple more hours for a child in their GCSE years. The Children, Schools and Families Act 2010 extends that duty and says local authorities should arrange full-time education for all children in alternative provision. As highlighted in the TES article link here www.tes.co.uk/article.aspx?storycode=6116532, many LAs are struggling to meet their obligations because of the additional pressures on their budgets.

We were recently informed that our LA now no longer routinely offer home based individual tuition, instead they will offer a place in a PRU where appropriate (not very in the case of a child too afraid to leave the house) or access to on-line support such as work set on the school's virtual learning environment. I don't personally see that this matches the Children, Schools and Families Act's specification that "The teaching must be of a similar quality to that which the child would receive in school, based on a broad and balanced curriculum."

In your opinion, is there any way we can argue that this policy fails to provide appropriate provision?

My second issue is that the LA insist that access to any alternative educational provision is dependant on a referral letter from a consultant. As waiting lists to be seen by consultants are often several months long, this makes it impossible for a child to access the alternative provison after the 15 missed school days stipulated in the legislation. The legislation does say that "ideally a referral should be obtained from a consultant paediatrician". Do you think this is sufficient legal justification for the LA to make the consultant's referral a pre-requisite for access to education?

Sorry this is so long but it I'd be very glad of any advice.

@moosemama

Our LEA is a pathfinder - ds has just been given a statement (well is still at the proposed stage as they are refusing to quantify) and we haven't been told a thing about personal budgets.

The current system is still running - even in pathfinders. The are piloting the new single plans and personal budgets with some families but by no means all in order to have a comparison.

Can you point to any definition of what outcomes from the pathfinders woukd signal success o alternatively failure?

Ok, now I'm confused again [ridiculously tired emoticon].

I thought the whole problem was that academies such as Mossbourne are refusing to accept that SEND have jursidiction over them and their only higher authority is directly with the Secretary of State via their Funding Agreement?

Do we perhaps all need to start overwhelming the SoS with individual concerns, problems and complaints until he decides that that system isn't workable and makes sure the academies are accountable to SEND?

@pinkorkid

Similar situation to devientenigma, we have a ds who has a statement and a place at special school but who has refused to attend for the last few months (due to anxiety issues).

Relevant legislation "access to education for children and young people with medical needs" says children who are absent from school due to illness for more than 15 days should have provision made to allow them to access education by alternative means - this could include hospital school, home tuition, in a PRU setting or internet support. It sets the minimum support to be provided at 5 hours tuition per week but emphasises that the only upper limits should be those imposed by the child's illness.

In practice (and in our personal experience) our LA's practice until recently was to provide 5 hours as the standard with perhaps a couple more hours for a child in their GCSE years. The Children, Schools and Families Act 2010 extends that duty and says local authorities should arrange full-time education for all children in alternative provision. As highlighted in the TES article link here www.tes.co.uk/article.aspx?storycode=6116532, many LAs are struggling to meet their obligations because of the additional pressures on their budgets.

We were recently informed that our LA now no longer routinely offer home based individual tuition, instead they will offer a place in a PRU where appropriate (not very in the case of a child too afraid to leave the house) or access to on-line support such as work set on the school's virtual learning environment. I don't personally see that this matches the Children, Schools and Families Act's specification that "The teaching must be of a similar quality to that which the child would receive in school, based on a broad and balanced curriculum."

In your opinion, is there any way we can argue that this policy fails to provide appropriate provision?

My second issue is that the LA insist that access to any alternative educational provision is dependant on a referral letter from a consultant. As waiting lists to be seen by consultants are often several months long, this makes it impossible for a child to access the alternative provison after the 15 missed school days stipulated in the legislation. The legislation does say that "ideally a referral should be obtained from a consultant paediatrician". Do you think this is sufficient legal justification for the LA to make the consultant's referral a pre-requisite for access to education?

Sorry this is so long but it I'd be very glad of any advice.

Hi we will print this off and answer this tomorrow if this is ok?

Right, thank you Sue.

I was sure I read on here somewhere that the Pathfinders had to offer the choice of personal budgets to every child/family that is issued with a statement. I thought I'd read that they have to at least give details of the trial to everyone? I might have got that wrong though.

Hi all - thanks so much to Sue, Dave and Rosemary for staying well past 10pm, and to everyone for the questions. Seems like there was quite a lot to cover on this one (and we didn't even get around to the Green Paper, unless I missed it...); we'll see if we can mop up any unanswered points over the next couple of days.

We'll hold another one soon, but in the meantime don't forget to fill in our survey - even if you didn't post - to help us evaluate the session's usefulness.

Thanks,
MNHQ

Sorry, have been afk.

I think all the funding agreements got "lost" when they were moved on the DfE website, recently. There was a bit of a hoo-har on Twitter about it. They still exist and if you search the right twitter hashtags you can work out where.

There is definitely a change in the new model agreements (we've been looking at going Academy) but each school gets to negotiate their own agreement based on the model. Most won't bother but some sharp ones will. So you have to look at each school individually.

@moosemama

Right, thank you Sue.

I was sure I read on here somewhere that the Pathfinders had to offer the choice of personal budgets to every child/family that is issued with a statement. I thought I'd read that they have to at least give details of the trial to everyone? I might have got that wrong though.

I'll check with one of the pathfinders Moose and let you know tomorrow

Thanks for replying :) I have also tried your link and put in academy funding agreements but it doesnt come up with a list of schools just starts of with an FOI request for it and then other subjects to click on.

Sorry we are being a pain

thanks to all involved

Thank you for taking the time to come on and talk to us.

@r3dh3d

Sorry, have been afk.

I think all the funding agreements got "lost" when they were moved on the DfE website, recently. There was a bit of a hoo-har on Twitter about it. They still exist and if you search the right twitter hashtags you can work out where.

There is definitely a change in the new model agreements (we've been looking at going Academy) but each school gets to negotiate their own agreement based on the model. Most won't bother but some sharp ones will. So you have to look at each school individually.

Hi DfE site down at the moment which may be causing some problems

@coff33pot

Thanks for replying :) I have also tried your link and put in academy funding agreements but it doesnt come up with a list of schools just starts of with an FOI request for it and then other subjects to click on.

Sorry we are being a pain

It came up ten mins ago Coff33 but seems to be down now - you're not being a pain it can be a really frustrating and drawn out process at times

Ah so its not meee! Thank you for spending your time with us it is appreciated.