Mumsnet/KIDS support session on special needs and education: THIS THURSDAY, 9pm

[RowanMumsnet]

Hello there,

We're pleased to announce that the second support session with members of KIDS staff will be held this Thursday evening between 9pm amd 10pm (in the hope that this will avoid most kids' bed-times!). The topic for Thursday's session will be education and related issues. (You can see the first session here.)

KIDS is a national charity working with disabled children, young people and their families across England. The KIDS staff at the session will be Sue Cawkwell (KIDS Regional Director for Yorkshire and Lincolnshire), and SEN specialists Rosemary Foster and Dave Lison.

The idea of these support sessions is to complement the advice and support that Special Needs posters already give each other with the insight and experience of people working for an organisation in the field. We hope that the session will pull together perspectives and advice from MNers and from KIDS staff, and that the thread will serve as a reference point for posters looking for advice about SEN.

It would be great to have as many of you as possible join us 'live' on Thursday evening, but if you can't make it, please also post up any advance questions for here.

We'd really appreciate your feedback on these sessions, so if you can find the time to fill in a survey after the session, that would be great - it's open to lurkers as well as posters - to everyone who has seen the thread.

Thanks,
MNHQ

thanks Sue will have another look at his current statement. The LA and I are looking into a more individual curriculum/life skills for DS. However obviously without going to tribunal the LA SS would be the named school in his statement. The LA would not openly chose an ind SS for DS. We all can't see DS attending any school for the near future. When I queried cost of sending him to his LA SS, the reply was individuals are not funded, the school is funded for how many places it has regardless of those being used or oversubscribed? A search online discovered a cost of £27000 average for pupil at this school, however the LA seem to think an individual budget cost is £4000 per pupil and £6000 extra if SEN, total of £10000 in comparison to what the school budget is, it's quite low. Would this be right? For what the home tutor is accomplishing with DS, I'd rather take a penny per day to avoid the hassle.

Re academies

All academies cannot refuse to admit if this is in contavention to their own funding agreements (as per link in previous response). We are aware there have been problems. There is a complaints procdure via the Education Funding Agency - will post link when find it.

good Q zzzzz

I agree with moosemama regarding those areas with a high % of academies. When combined with other recent changes such as the removal of the right to a minimum number of hours a week tuition for those children unabe to attend school it & issues surrounding exclusion and SEN we are on the edge of a very dangerous precipice.

It's a back door way of denying some children any right to an education at all.

The coalition has made a fundamental departure from the principle that every child in the UK should recieve an education, yet because things are being introduced in a haphazard, piecemeal way no teaching union, parenting group or national charity seems to have picked up the opposition campaign baton as yet.

-----------

The government keeps making reference to early intervention etc but the evidence on the ground suggests that the route to diagnosis for serious conditions such as ASD is now taking longer than ever before. As the parent of a child who spent 3 years becoming increasingly distressed in the wilderness that comes prior to recognition of SEN this really concerns me. It seems that with the changes to the NHS this government proposes the potential for children to slip through the cracks is dramatically increasing.

It is still not uncommon for children to remain undiagnosed all through their school years, or to obtain final confirmation of diagnosis as adults or at Uni for conditions as diverse as ASD & dyslexia. The removal of thousands of children without diagnosis from the SEN register puts those children at risk of underacheivement, exclusion etc with no redress (esp if they attend an academy!)

Can you recommend any organisations that can help parents push for diagnosis and/or offer support during this pre-diagnostic critical period that despite all the hype can last for years.

@zzzzz

What services are available to home educated children with sen?[/q

[quote zzzzz]What services are available to home educated children with sen?

HI ZZZZZ
Try putting in Home Education Advisory Service into google their contact number is

01707 371854

Am I allowed two questions?

My son's equipment has to be funded by the school as it is deemed to benefit the whole class, not just him. What can I do if they tell me they are not going to buy it for him? (We have a doctor's letter recommending it.)

He will be 'School Action Plus' (while it exists!) How can I check he is receiving the support he needs, like being taught phonics in a quiet, non echoey room, without coming across as though I don't trust the school?

@Het42

I am planning to send our youngest son to the nursery/pre school attached to our local primary. He has speech delay but perfect understanding and good sign language. He also has some motor co-ordination issues. He's being assessed for a statement now and the ed psych says she is recommending a different school in her report. I know it's all supposed to be parental choice but does she have any sway?

Hello Het42
An Ed Psych can give professional advice but cannot dictact which school a child goes to. The LA will have a moderating group and they will recommend a school to be named in part IV and should take on all advice including parental representation.

Following that decision you as parents have the right to disagree and would inevitably have the right to appeal is you couldnt negotiate,

@devientenigma

thanks Sue will have another look at his current statement. The LA and I are looking into a more individual curriculum/life skills for DS. However obviously without going to tribunal the LA SS would be the named school in his statement. The LA would not openly chose an ind SS for DS. We all can't see DS attending any school for the near future. When I queried cost of sending him to his LA SS, the reply was individuals are not funded, the school is funded for how many places it has regardless of those being used or oversubscribed? A search online discovered a cost of £27000 average for pupil at this school, however the LA seem to think an individual budget cost is £4000 per pupil and £6000 extra if SEN, total of £10000 in comparison to what the school budget is, it's quite low. Would this be right? For what the home tutor is accomplishing with DS, I'd rather take a penny per day to avoid the hassle.

#

Hello Devientenigma

Funding for special schools is complex. Some time ago there was caselaw set regarding a tribunal were funding for special schools was determind in the LA's favour and the funding arrangements similar to your description were accepted.

Thanks for the link, but can you look up the funding agreements for individual schools and if you do will that make their responsibility for taking children with a range of needs including SENs clear?

My concern stems from this whereby it seems that children with statements could well end up worse off with regards to academy admission than those without.

As a parent who has just fought to obtain a statement for her child partially to ensure his placement at one of two local schools, I am now concerned that, not only can they refuse to take him, but that as academies are now claiming not to fall under the jurisdiction of the SEN Tribunal process, we will be left with nowhere for him to go. As you may have gathered, there are no non-academy secondary schools left in our particular area.

It makes me so angry that we are told that if they refuse to take our children we can take them to tribunal - if indeed that is still the case with academies. So, we have to fight and pay £££s for representation etc just to get our children a place in the local school system, that should be (and indeed would, until recently have been) their right. What are our children supposed to do while they are without a school placement as we are fighting for their basic right to an education?

Academies are still government funded, afaik the UK is still supposed to have a free educational system that is available to all - yet apparently if your child has SNs and a statement and you happen to live in an all academy area that may no longer be the case.

When the new wave of academies were first being created, I read that the only recourse parents had was straight to the Minister for Education - I will be interested to see what route the complaints procedure takes.

@bochead

I agree with moosemama regarding those areas with a high % of academies. When combined with other recent changes such as the removal of the right to a minimum number of hours a week tuition for those children unabe to attend school it & issues surrounding exclusion and SEN we are on the edge of a very dangerous precipice.

It's a back door way of denying some children any right to an education at all.

The coalition has made a fundamental departure from the principle that every child in the UK should recieve an education, yet because things are being introduced in a haphazard, piecemeal way no teaching union, parenting group or national charity seems to have picked up the opposition campaign baton as yet.

-----------

The government keeps making reference to early intervention etc but the evidence on the ground suggests that the route to diagnosis for serious conditions such as ASD is now taking longer than ever before. As the parent of a child who spent 3 years becoming increasingly distressed in the wilderness that comes prior to recognition of SEN this really concerns me. It seems that with the changes to the NHS this government proposes the potential for children to slip through the cracks is dramatically increasing.

It is still not uncommon for children to remain undiagnosed all through their school years, or to obtain final confirmation of diagnosis as adults or at Uni for conditions as diverse as ASD & dyslexia. The removal of thousands of children without diagnosis from the SEN register puts those children at risk of underacheivement, exclusion etc with no redress (esp if they attend an academy!)

Can you recommend any organisations that can help parents push for diagnosis and/or offer support during this pre-diagnostic critical period that despite all the hype can last for years.

Hi Bochead

In terms of pre diagnostic support have you tried the National Autistic society or local support groups? The exsiting legislation regarding SEN is still in force and the emphasis is on meeting children;s sen with or without diagnosis.

Re academies

Take a look on the dfe website under The Education Funding Agency re complaints

@MissBetsyTrotwood

Am I allowed two questions?

My son's equipment has to be funded by the school as it is deemed to benefit the whole class, not just him. What can I do if they tell me they are not going to buy it for him? (We have a doctor's letter recommending it.)

He will be 'School Action Plus' (while it exists!) How can I check he is receiving the support he needs, like being taught phonics in a quiet, non echoey room, without coming across as though I don't trust the school?

Hello Miss Betsy

Ask for a meeting with the senco and also ask to view the IEP (you have been given a copy any way). You dont mention what the equipment is but if a child's progress is determind by the use of specialist equipment then you could ask the school to make a 'reasonable adjustment' under part iv of the DDA Act.

Every child at School action plus should have an IEP and there has to be outside agency involvment (ed psyc, speech and language etc so they could also give advice to back up need for equipment)

what about those who have there child at home full time without choice as they don't fit into school, where do you look for support etc?

my DS requires 24/7 supervision, sometimes on a 2:1 ratio, yet I am left to care for him alone.

@moosemama

Thanks for the link, but can you look up the funding agreements for individual schools and if you do will that make their responsibility for taking children with a range of needs including SENs clear?

My concern stems from this whereby it seems that children with statements could well end up worse off with regards to academy admission than those without.

As a parent who has just fought to obtain a statement for her child partially to ensure his placement at one of two local schools, I am now concerned that, not only can they refuse to take him, but that as academies are now claiming not to fall under the jurisdiction of the SEN Tribunal process, we will be left with nowhere for him to go. As you may have gathered, there are no non-academy secondary schools left in our particular area.

It makes me so angry that we are told that if they refuse to take our children we can take them to tribunal - if indeed that is still the case with academies. So, we have to fight and pay £££s for representation etc just to get our children a place in the local school system, that should be (and indeed would, until recently have been) their right. What are our children supposed to do while they are without a school placement as we are fighting for their basic right to an education?

Academies are still government funded, afaik the UK is still supposed to have a free educational system that is available to all - yet apparently if your child has SNs and a statement and you happen to live in an all academy area that may no longer be the case.

When the new wave of academies were first being created, I read that the only recourse parents had was straight to the Minister for Education - I will be interested to see what route the complaints procedure takes.

Hello Moosemamma - yes it should give individual school details. The points you raise are some the reasons the govt has set up the complaints procedure.

You can also as a parent write directly to the secretary of state for education as they will look into the funding agreement of the academy in question on your behalf.

@zzzzz

I have googled as you suggested but apart from FAQ which tells me I am allowed to home ed my sn child and the offer to buy a pamphlet that explains what a statement is etc there seems little useful information. HE is a huge part of sn education some by necessity some by choice, how is it it is SO difficult to find out what could be provided in the home?

Hi ZZZ

Another site you could try then is Education Otherwise - would be good if you could take a quick look and see what you think - it looks more comprehensive to me.

sorry i'm late

re;

^Arrange a meeting with the SENCo and the Head teacher, request the
presence at the meeting of the Ed Psych for the school, plus other professionals
that have given the diagnosis or who have given advice re the diagnosis; the
IEP could then be updated accurately. You might also want to provide the
SENCO with any information or reports you already have.^

the SENCO is refusing to arrange an assessment by Ed Psych until she's heard from the Paed Psych - she wants the Paed Psych to 'order' an Ed Psych assessment, which the Paed Psych says he cannot do. Can you advise the best route to stop this ping-pong effect please?

@HotheadPaisan

One more thing on Academies and statements - if the Academies and LAs prevail and it is upheld that Academies are outside of the jurisdiction of SEND Tribunals, everything will take a backwards step. You will no longer be able to name provision. That was the one ray of hope in an arduous and fraught process, that you would at least be able to exercise some choice and appeal if necessary. To lose this would be a travesty.

Hi Hothead

The case law states that appeals can be made if the LA name the academy in part iv of a statement so anyone living in an area where all schools are acadamies the LA would pressumably have no choice but to name an academy - therefore you would have a right to appeal.

It's vital not to always listen to the point of view of the academies direct but to seek further advice and guidance on the law - your parent partnership service should offer this advice. The funding agreement of the academy is vital

@UnCharteredromaeosaur

sorry i'm late

re;

^Arrange a meeting with the SENCo and the Head teacher, request the
presence at the meeting of the Ed Psych for the school, plus other professionals
that have given the diagnosis or who have given advice re the diagnosis; the
IEP could then be updated accurately. You might also want to provide the
SENCO with any information or reports you already have.^

the SENCO is refusing to arrange an assessment by Ed Psych until she's heard from the Paed Psych - she wants the Paed Psych to 'order' an Ed Psych assessment, which the Paed Psych says he cannot do. Can you advise the best route to stop this ping-pong effect please?

You could put in a parental request for a statutory assessment