DD's Teacher wants her to see the SEN nurse. I'm out of my depth with this one.

[PissyDust]

DD3 has always been a challenge which we have found many excuses to cover up for in the past including her being a middle child.

We moved her to a new school in Sept because she wasn't making any friends and had got into some difficult situations and the school said she was a bully (they actually said it was like watching a controlling boyfriend manipulate his girlfriend) she was 7.

I did ask them before we took her out whether the thought she may have some underlining issue but I was told she didn't struggle to concentrate and was sitting above average in her school work so it was just her personality and she would grow out of it.

Her new school teacher doesn't agree and told me today that DD is the natiest child in the class, she will have no friends as she isn't able to let others be themselves and dictates and dominates anyone that will let her anywhere near them.
She finished by saying that I should see our GP about her behaviour and that she wants DD to see the SEN nurse.

I don't understand what this will mean for DD and what to do for the best, I have looked at the boards on SN here but it's like I'm reading a foreign language and I feel a bit sick tbh.

I also feel guilty that I should have spotted it myself and had her seen sooner, she is so very different to my other children (I know they are all different but I mean Different) I have in the past tried stopping different foods and arranging 1:1 playtime - never a success

If you got this far then thank you.

Make an appointment with GP and ask for a referral to a developmental paediatrician for assessment. They may feel it more appropriate to refer to camhs (children and adolescent mental health services) in the first instance, but it would probably be useful if you had a paed on board in any case...

Ds1 is quite rigid in his thinking, and struggles with social interaction (his way or the high way) - he has a working dx of ADHD with some aspergers traits and anxieties. He is also gifted. Bright kids are not immune to having additional needs of any sort. Some are caused by the gifted ness, some are just sn.

It isn't possible to dx based on a post on an Internet forum, but the fact that school have raised concerns means you would be wise to get some referrals in place, if only to rule things out.

Am frankly appalled at the teachers description, btw. Worth a complaint in itself, I would have said.

Incidentally, I have no idea what an SEN nurse is. Never heard of it. Did she say SEnCO? Or school nurse? Both v different people...

I would also suggest calling the office and asking to make an appointment with the School SENCO to discuss your concerns.

If it was me, i would make an appointment to see the teacher and ask what type of issues she/he thinks your Dd has.

Ime, teachers do not mention concerns unless they think they have some kind of idea what is going on. That doesnt mean that the teacher is right and they should never try to diagnose children.

If you have concerns too then you should see your gp to ask for a referral.

If your Dd is displaying some kind of inappropriate behaviour the the school.should set up an individual behaviour plan (IBP). This should include targets to support your Dd to change her behaviour.

Sorry x posted with madwoman,

I meant to say, be kind to yourself and remember you are your daughters advocate, she needs your help to sort this out and too find out what is going on.

Good luck

Yes, agree with madwoman that the teacher was dreadfully inappropriate to describe your daughter that way, and that you need to speak to the SENCO.

This teacher that pegs your daughter as "nasty" will need to put that aside and work with you and the SENCO to put support in place to HELP your daughter, not run her down verbally.

I forgot to add that I have booked a doctors appointment for Tuesday, the teacher said SEN something

I get the impression that she has had it up to the back teeth with DD3 but I'm just relieved she didn't tell me DD is naughty and there is nothing we can do to help her.

"His way or the high way" is a perfect way to describe DD and I have recently stopped her playing out front with DD1 as she causes so many problems with DD1's group of friends.

She stays in watching the same DVD over and over again or we bake but most of the time she asks for lists of sums to do.

I should add, it would be extremely appropriate if school arranged an assessment by their ed psych in the first instance - if they have not done so already. I would be requesting this via the SENCO.

Thank you - x-post to lots of replies.

I think the teacher is going to speak to senco, she did say she wanted to refer DD some where within school.

I may ask to see the teacher again tomorrow, tell her i've booked a doctors appointment and ask he for her thoughts.

This isn't going to be resolved within a week or two is it?

This is exactly the right age for schools to start flagging 'something' btw. In the early years it's v much 'watch and wait' as lots of quirks disappear with maturity, but around 8 or so, kids who are different from their peer group for whatever reason start to stick out more, and schools can't continue to ignore.

So no need to beat yourself up for not doing anything sooner. Different is ok, not necessarily bad, and mild enough for it not to have been essential to deal sooner... It may be that with a little help she can work out peer relations better which will make it easier all round.

And yes, be nice to yourself. All part of life's rich pattern

Nah, not a week or two.

But that's ok. She's exactly the same child she was yesterday. She isn't going anywhere, she might just need a bit of help to make life easier for her (and you )

Unbelievable way of breaking news to you.
Her behaviour may well be a rigidity associated with autism type traits - which often in girls are not picked up until they are older, so if it is something like this don't be hard on yourself.
Its unlikely to be due to 'nastiness' but may be due to a difficulty with understanding social relationships, empathy etc.
As you say she is not like your other children so this is unlikely to be learnt behaviour, and children are not naturally nasty, especially when they have nice parents!
You could look at info on National Autistic Society website or there are some books written on autism in girls e.g. Aspergirls and see if any of it fits.

I know that sick feeling. My DS did turn out to have autism, but I just want to assure you that if it is a social-communication difficulty then there is loads that can be done to help her. It may be that social skills e.g. give and take of play, will have to be specifically taught, she will not just grasp it. But it CAN be taught. This is not unfixable.

Ds1 is also maths mad. The psych who did his assessment was blown away as he scored higher than her grad students.

She sounds v similar. All she needs is a wii habit and they could be twins...

DD drives her 10 year old sister mad because she will sing out the maths answers over her sisters shoulder and do them much quicker!!

You have all made me feel better, I've been reading the NAS, never had a reason to do so before and DD fits most of what is written.

I'm going to ask to see her teacher again for a chat and make sure she has started to arrange things from their end.

We do have private medical care through work, do you thik it is worth useing it in this instance?

Ineed I haven't been a very good advocate for her so far, her behaviour is some times terrible, she will rage and I have raged back.

I feel really bad now as she has been punished for bad behaviour and it could be that she couldn't help it.

Last week she told me she desn't know why she screams, she can't help it at least I can change the way I deal with it all from now on although I do hope it all gets easier soon.

If the private insurance will cover it go for it as there can be long waiting lists. It can be hard to get local authorities who fund support to accept private diagnosis, but right now you just want to find out the quickest way what you are dealing with. You can follow up the NHS route too.
You can also self refer to the Ed Psych attached to school or ask the school to bring the EP in and assess.
teachers can be reluctant to use the "A" word. So i would say you have been reading up about autism and wondering whether that might explain things. The teacher may be relieved you are thinking along those lines - and you can then set up a meeting to discuss what strategies they could put in place while waiting for assessment. Or she may at least be embarrassed about calling your child nasty!
My nursery told me they didn't think DS had autism he was just deliberately stubborn!

We had Ds assessed privately in December (full psycho ed) as we were told the wait list for assessment through school could be a year. We have always known he has quirks, but only decided to assess because his yr 5 teacher kept us at parent teacher interview for an hour and a quarter and then burst into tears. up until that point, although we knew he was, I'm, different, there was no necessity for immediate intervention.

Insurance paid with no problems. As he was dx as both sn and gifted, the school now have to support him in both areas. He also sees the local equivalent of camhs every couple of weeks who are working on the social and anxiety stuff. He was 9 when he was dx, 10 now.

He has an unbelievable temper. I suspect I know where that particular trait originated . The psych made me laugh as one of the first things she said was 'usually we find the apple doesn't fall far from the tree', sagely.

(lol at stubborn, btw - ds1 is literally the most stubborn child in the history of the world. Has been from the day he was born!)

Hi Pissy

See you found your own thread, excellent! I see that you've been given lots of support already :)

Stubborn - check
rewatching of films - check ARRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHH this trait drives me crazy

DS has been told off repeatedly by school, us and family. Getting a dx won't mean that you don't ever tell her off again. There will be times when she is just being 8 and is naughty. If you have insurance that will cover assessment then I would do it but also get the ball rolling with your GP as it is much easier to get support from school etc with an NHS dx. If you do get a private dx then the NHS paed may well just accept that. There are people on here that have used the private route. There is a v well respected paed in London that has been used a few times by posters but there may well be other recommendations if you post your general location.

Take care of yourself.

Hi! Can't chat for long, every one awake and I need to get ready for work.

ben I'm close to London can I pm you this evening?

Absolutely.

Have a good day. Try not to think about it.

I've just PMed you.

Just a quick note how dare she call your DD the nastiest child in the class, I personally think your DD has the nastiest teacher. This will be not be very constructive but I would seriously consider keeping her at home and let the LEA know your reasons. Doesn't she realise your DD is aware of her attitude. [cross]

Hi pissy I hope you didnt think i was being critical when i said you need to be your Dd's advocate.

When Dd1 was younger i had no idea about aspergers or asd because it wasnt part of my life. We used to get into negative spirals with her behaviour and the way i managed it.

We couldnt get a dx for Dd1 but since Dd3 came along and we learned more about the autistic spectum i have realised that it is not the Dd's or my parenting which is at fault, it is that the autism means they have to be handled in a different way.

If your Dd's behaviour fits into the types of behaviours described on the NAS website then i think she will need further investigations to make sure that in the future she is supported at school.

There are many strategies out there to help our children, keep coming on here for advice and support.

Good luck

Just a quick post from the iPad, I will pick up your pm this evening Ben

DH picked DD up from school today as I was at work, we had been told yesterday DD wasn't allowed a pencil case because it was distracting, she took a rubber because she stressed the school one would leave dirty marks on her work.

DH was told no rubber, no anything.

DD if dx wouldn't even be the only child dx'd in her class, I feel she is being singled out

I'll post more when the lo's are sleeping

I think you are right, the teacher needs to get a grip.

Maybe you need to go over her head and see the senco. Tell him/her about your concerns and that you think that your Dd might be on the autistic spectrum.

Many children with ASD would get very stressy about using a dirty rubber on their work. It just isnt right! Teachers tell them to be neat and then give them a dirty rubber. No wonder our kids get confused.

I'm now in PJ's on the laptop and happy to report DH bought me a slab of hotel chocolat and to cheer me up

Ineed I didn't find your post critical at all. I am where you were in the beginning, not knowing what to do for the best for DD all ready frustrated that I can't get the ball rolling until next Tuesday.

Ben10 sent me a link for a private doctor in London who I have now emailed so again waiting.

I'm so torn about the school, I'm glad in a way that soem one else has spotted what I have been concerned about for years but she seems to be trying to gode DD into a meltdown, the pencil case was for her b'day in May etc.

That said I know how obsessed DD is over swapping and collecting stuff and because she is in the highest set she doesn't seem to need to concentrate on work and puts all her effort into gaining and swapping and stealing things to collect.

How do you all cope with it? And what about your partners? My DH is fit to telll the teacher where to go, I think he feels helpless because we don't know what to expect.