Panel wants DS1 to go to mainstream

[OctonautsOnRepeat]

I am gutted. He is in a SN unit nursery at the moment and is 4 years old.

Disagnosed with ASD when he was 3.

We're going thru the SA process too and are just waiting for final statement to come through.

Panel sat two weeks ago to see if he should go to one of the mainstream-with-SN unit school, same format as he has now.

Expecting the outcome letter today and have receieved an e-mail from his case worker saying that they have declined and said it's mainstream, not a unit or special school.

He won't cope in mainstream. His proposed statement says that he needs:
-2 x 60mins SALT every week

• support to attend in all lessons

-support at lunchtime/play tme to socialise.

He has few social skills and can't concentrate. He needs one-to-one to learn anything.

If he goes to mainstream he will be ignored- as he gets quiet when he is overwhelmed, or labelled as 'naughty' as he has no idea how to play with others and interect withthem. He wnats to- he goes up and stands in front of other children, smiling, trying to connect but has no idea to do beyond that.

I am furious and just so disappointed.

Going to see his nursery keyworker tomorrow- she is fab, to talk through.
I'm going to appeal but if they throw it out again, i think i'll have to home school ( which I am very happy to do)
He will not thrive in mainstream. He will disappear.

How do i put all this to the appeal panel without sounding like an over-emotioanl loon?

This happens far to often, unlike MS the intake/admissions can vary due to appeals from previous year, older children transferring. You need to finalise so you can appeal and speak to head of SN nursery. At my ds SS when he started only 3 children that year where reception age the rest older, three more reception aged children joined that academic year (2 through appeal do not know about third) and the cycle begins again.
Write SS placement in part 4.

I've been told there's only 8 places for the year- if they've all been assigned, how will he stand a chance at appeal?

We have an OK mainstream accross the road from us so I think they are hoping i will just roll over and send him there

Appeal is about what is suitable and not about places, places is for the LEA to worry about. The fact that there is only 8 places is not your concern the best placement is your concern.

agree with squidworth - finalize and appeal to SENDIST.

Also might be worth your while looking at (expensive) private special schools. If the la does not have an appropriate state placement suitable for your cild's needs, then they should fund another.

Sometimes this threat works.

Thanks for the advice, sorry to sound really thick but what do you mean by 'finalize'?

We would not be able to afford private but I can see how that threat may put a rocket up their arse, so to speak.

It shouldn't be like this.

Why is it so hard and complicated to just provide him with an education?!

This happened to us with DS1 last year, with us panel did agree that he needed unit placement but there were no places. They didn't tell us that at the time though, just that to keep him in mainstream and to see how it went.

All the reports etc from SA clearly showed DS needed a place at unit but we were told same as you, only 8 places available. Had to start tribunal proceedings and LA caved before hand and DS started there in Sept. he is doing well and am so glad I pushed, even though it is hard going.

Good luck x

That's brilliant Starfish, really glad it worked out for you.

Definitely gonna fight this. He needs a unit place.

Oh goodness. Don't worry about that. Put in a FOI request and ask how many of the children in the unit had appealed to get their places. It is just the rules of the game (which they fail to explain to you).

There is no such thing as a 'panel' either, at least not with any power. The person accountable and responsible for the placement is the caseworker and no-one else although they can seek guidance from others. They should certainly not be pretending that it is anyone other than their decision.

What I mean is that I can assure you that every one of those that attend the unit were told the same as you, and yet, they are there.

Hi Starlight, I don't understand.....she gave me the impression that they sit and discuss and the decision is made by the group...is the final vote really the case worker?

(and what's a FOI request?)

SO they would refuse on the first attempt and the ones who bother to appeal get the places? How is that right?

This system sucks.

Yes Octanaughts. Don't act disappointed or confused simply ask the case worker what the next steps are because 'obviously' your DS will need to go to that unit or if not a private one (funded by them) as ms is 'obviously totally inadequate.

JuSt got the letter.
His date of birth is wrong but his name is correct.

Could they have confused him with someone else? Case worker is "unavailable"

Don't know what I'd do without mumsnet!

Assistant case worker iss unable to comment or discuss.

I know it seems very dark at the moment but you have time as your statement is quite early so you are ahead of those still waiting, your appeal will be earlier. Be careful about ms while you wait as this can give evidence that they are right and your child can cope at ms. Be careful with the my child needs 1:1 and more that your child needs specailist provision as 1:1 is for ms not specailist which is generally small classes with high staffing ratio. The system does suck and it is a game.

Ok so say "specialist provision" rather than one to one.

The unit is specialist, similar to the one he's in now- they use makaton, visual timetables, salt.

It even says in his proposed statement that all staff dealing with him have to be trained in dealing with asd and in makaton, even new staff.

How can it be cheaper / easier for them to send him to ms an add all the extras on, than to send him to the unit where it's already there.

The unit children wear their cans at lunchtime, he'd stick out like a sore thumb at ms with his cans on.

I'm so mad, got to channel it. He needs this provision.

Thanks starlight- you always give me good advice

You were on my labour thread with Ds2 and my 'just been diagnosed ' thread.

Yes appeal
The fact in SN nursery already will help especially if the nursery support you.
You can argue it on need, on cost (full-time support + SALT in mainstream is often more expensive than a unit place or SN school place)
You can argue may be able to move to mainstream in future but when ready and from a position of strength e.g. that proved ability to do so and that it can be phased in gradually e.g. half day a week and built up, not the sink or swim approach being suggested
Is transport an issue to a unit school? That might be the block as on costs the placements are likely to be similarly priced
You can do a FOI (Freedom of Information) request and ask for a breakdown of the cost of each placement

Just get the final statement asap then appeal and ask the tribunal to expedite it.
Are you eligible for legal aid? If so get a solicitor to start getting reports
You could do with getting your child seen in their SN setting before July by a private EP

As for whether they have places they can always get extra staff as long as there is physically enough place in the unit its hard to argue they can't take an extra child.

Ok, thank you. Transport not an issue. We live 1.1 miles away and I have a car for rainy days. Thy are paying me £6.56 a day to take him to nursery at the moment as its cheaper than their taxi.

Nursery will be supportive, thy are very much inside and the key worker is great- very very experienced.

He is off today as he's got a chest infection, going to see her tomorrow.

Haven't told DH yet. I think he'll cry. We were pinning our hopes on this cos it integrates slowly , at his pace.

"sink or swim" you are right about that!

Don't know about legal aid- I get a little bit of HB. Will have to check about that and see if I can find a private EP.

I am happy to HE but he needs that SALT and he would love to stay at home, but I don't want him to get to 16 and be completely unable to interact with others.

If you get legal aid, it'll pay for your private EP too so might be a good idea to check that out first.

Finalize - Does your statement say proposed statement? if so, it has not been finalized. You should 'neogtiate' with them and put in what you want etc. and then when they issue the second statement, just ask them to issue the final statement as you need this before you can appeal.

Yes, it is all a game - they reckon on one parent giving up every step of the way so the more obstacles they put in the less the more parents will fall by the wayside.

Thanks trying just spoke to SENcO from local mainstream and she was lovely but said they, and most other ms schools, woul not be able I meet half of the statements requirements. ESP he but about all staff being trained in makaton erc.

Sorry for typos- on iPod and the autocorrect is a nightmare!

Statement is "proposed"no mention of hours- partnership with parents said this is cos the statement writers would assume SN school for these needs.

How can you agree to a statement geared for SS/unit when they then tell you MS. Have you specified placement and sent it back, you need to do this now still stating the unit. statement writers generally don't assume, usually just type highlighted text from refs with a bit of scribble from case worker. The proposed should match the provision it is written for.

They hadn't decided on provision when they wrote it- essentially two processes have Ben going on independently even though they are dependant on each other.

The part 4 provision section jut said not decided yet, going to panel.

They should really sort the placement first as I assume, it will have to change dependan on where he goes.

Such a mess

Octanaughts, really there's nothing to cry about. It isn't personsal or because you've not done something right. There are teachers, lawyers, SENCOs on this thread that have had the same experience BECAUSE it is how the process appears to be. Provision is finance and resource led rather than needs led and so the places go to the determined. Btw, I am not suggesting the determined don't NEED the places. They do, which is why the determined get the places because it is clear that a tribunal panel which only the determined would use or threaten get the places.

No-one here will say that is right btw. But really there is no point in wasting energy and anger on run of the mill nonsense. JuST see it as having graduated to the next necessary level and shrug.