Panel wants DS1 to go to mainstream

[OctonautsOnRepeat]

I am gutted. He is in a SN unit nursery at the moment and is 4 years old.

Disagnosed with ASD when he was 3.

We're going thru the SA process too and are just waiting for final statement to come through.

Panel sat two weeks ago to see if he should go to one of the mainstream-with-SN unit school, same format as he has now.

Expecting the outcome letter today and have receieved an e-mail from his case worker saying that they have declined and said it's mainstream, not a unit or special school.

He won't cope in mainstream. His proposed statement says that he needs:
-2 x 60mins SALT every week

• support to attend in all lessons

-support at lunchtime/play tme to socialise.

He has few social skills and can't concentrate. He needs one-to-one to learn anything.

If he goes to mainstream he will be ignored- as he gets quiet when he is overwhelmed, or labelled as 'naughty' as he has no idea how to play with others and interect withthem. He wnats to- he goes up and stands in front of other children, smiling, trying to connect but has no idea to do beyond that.

I am furious and just so disappointed.

Going to see his nursery keyworker tomorrow- she is fab, to talk through.
I'm going to appeal but if they throw it out again, i think i'll have to home school ( which I am very happy to do)
He will not thrive in mainstream. He will disappear.

How do i put all this to the appeal panel without sounding like an over-emotioanl loon?

Ok, yes that's practical.
Seeing the key worker and SENCO at nursery tomorrow, then we'll go from there.

Can I instigate an appeal or do I have to ask the case worker to?

Who initiated the statutory assessment?

Ultimately only the parents have right of appeal so you'll have to do it, but actuy there are lots of steps before that can mean you might not have to appeal. However, the most effective strategy is understanding and talking knowledgeably about appeals as if you are both expecting and confident to go through it. Don't throw threats about in anger just roll your eyes and sigh that it's a hoop you're being forced over. Carry the appeal forms in your well thumbed code of practice that you take to any negotiating meetings etc.

You need a finalised statement, be careful do not have meetings that delay the process as this will delay final. As a rule of thumb unless an employee of the lea (including sn nursery and schools)is willing to back what they say in writing it is just talk. The senco who told you they could not meet the statement was wrong to say that.

I only recieved a letter, saying that i should now inform them of my mainstream choice so they can secure a place.
No mention of appeal.

Will they finalise the statement without a placement though? Or will they just leave section4 blank again?

Can I request a negotiation meeting? And with whom?

Sorry for all the questions, I am really flying blind with this.

Appreciate the advice about not responding in anger. I need to be able to make a logical arguement and back up with the EP reports/SLT appendices for the SA.

How do I finalise the stament quicker? I sent the proposed one back on 9th March...I was told it's 6 weeks from them for it to arrive.

Out of the 3 boys in the nursery, 2 did not get a place in a SN unit, one got the place at the unit.

The nursery and I initiated the SA, as in I said it's pretty obvious he will need SN education next year (sept 2012) how early can we get on it. The Key worker at the nursery got the ball rolling last October.
He had to go to panel to get teh place at the SN nursery last year and was selcted from the county to be one of 6 children at the nursery- it has a speech delay unit and an ASD unit. It's been the best thing to happen to him, he is so happy, he is thriving there.

You should really call one of the charities IPSEA or SOsSEn or ACE.

But in short you need to go through every report/piece of evidence and write it into the statement, first the 'needs' into part 2 (number each need) and then the provision to meet that need (corresponding number). IfI no recommendations have been made you should write your own in and try hard to find something to support what you say. Part 5 and 6 should be empty.

You should then name your preferred placement for pt 4 and ignore their instruction for you to name ms.

You should write to everyone who has discussed the statement with you to 'clarify' that you have understood correctly that 'their school could not meet his needs' etc.

You should ask your caseworker in writing for both the names of those on the panel and the minutes (the response to this will be helpful despite them finding an excuse not to provide them). You can also ask him/her in writing who is the named person responsible for your Ds' statement and why they allowed themselves to be swayed by a panel when the situation is so clear-cut for SS.

You should also ensure you have everything from the nursery file, and download the appeal documents from IPSEA and get to know the types of questions you'll need to have answers to.

If you wanted to, you might consider (before you did any of the above) pretending to be ignorant of your caseworker's lies and ask her if she woukd help you draft your appeal and see where that gets you. Absolutely don't trust any 'help' though but it will flag it up to them, particularly if you say it is for the first draft that IPSEA have asked you to write for their input.

Just sme ideas.....

Thank you Starlight.

I was on the phone this aft trying to get legal aid.....the nearest that deals with this is Islington and she only sees people who live there. Will chase that up tomorrow.

Just raking through the code of conduct now....

The proposed statement has been returned, and so does that mean I am out of time to state my preference in Part 4. My preference has been well documented throughout and I did do the 'take all the reports, highlight the needs check they are in part 2, highlight all the provisions, check they are in part 3' took me hours but worth it definitely.

Never heard of IPSEA, will look into that now.

Got the SEND info from county's website.

The senco from the mainstream asked not be named....so no chance of getting it in writing.

What is my timeframe on this? He does not legally have to start til January 1st and I know lsat year the nursery keep a boy there for a term as there was such a mess with trying to get him a placement- again a difficult to place child, not bad enough for Linden Bridge but really unable to cope in ms. I am certain they would consider it for him.

Sorry to keep pestering you, I really do appreciate all this.

IPSEA website is fab! will be ringing them tomorrow.

For legal aid try maxwell gillot.

I think you have 15 days to respond to statement and send in your comments but tbh you can tell hem what you want at any time before you receive the final statement.

When you receive it you will need to keep the dated envelope that it comes with and send off the appeal docs ASAP but within the timeframe stated.

Your appeal documentation won't be complicated. Requesting part 4 be changed from ms to SS will almost certainly be accepted for appeal, so you don't have to put together anything comprehensive at that stage just the main points.

Call IPSEA at 7-7:30 because kids bed time is when their phones are least busy.

I know I'm probably boring you all silly but writing it down helps me focus my thoughts and stops me ranting at DH who has retreated to skyrim.

Just found county's SEN placement criteria on their website. He meets the criteria for severl of their SNSC, as it's not just ASD, it's Speech and langauge delay, impaired fine motor skilld, impaired play skills- all listed onhis proposed statement. Their own guidelines show that mainstream is insufficient.

So print off a copy to add to your pile of evidence (before they take it down).

Done and done. What a lovely lever arch file of stuff I'll be dragging our key worker thru tomorrow.

As squid said though, have no meetings with LA SEN team until after you have the final statement UNLESS you are happy about the 15 days being reset or actually believe you are likely to be offered what you need.

Maxwell Gillott very well thought of. Go to a SEN specialist lawyer, if you are eligible for legal aid you can choose (look on legal aid website and fill in the calculator to see if eligible). If you get legal aid this will fund private reports and really help you negotiate what you want
I agree don't name mainstream - they will most likely name the nearest so they don't have to provide transport provided it has spaces.
Also many schools are lent on to take in pupils they know they can't cope with so don't assume any school will say no in writing even if have on phone
The LA will have to send the statement to schools and get them to agree to take your child - insist on seeing the correspondence if any m/s school does say yes
Just stick to your request for SN placement

Ok, thank you. I will have to wait a couple of weeks then for the statment to come through.

If I keep quiet now, it should get processed in the required amount of time..so another 3 weeks max. Then I can kick up a fuss and start negotiating for the SS place?

She (the case worker) is pushing for my mainstream choice, the idea of my not liking their decision was not hinted at in the letter or e-mail. I really do think they expect us to just shrug and say 'ok then'. I've not replied to her yett, I want to keep my cards close to my chest until i can present a solid case.

Thanks Agnes. we live across the road- as is 15meters away from a ms, i think this is the one they will want us to take. It was their senco I spoke to.

You need to put in writing sometime soon that you are expecting a SS to be named and what your choice is.

You don't have to make your case or show all your evidence/cards.

Right now all your correspondence should be with it ion mind that a tribunal judge might read it, so be clear, factual, unemotional, timely and polite.

At this point you want to make it clear to a tribunal judge that at no point were you ever in doubt that a ms school would be wholly inadequate and that the LA knew this before they finalised the statement.

Ok, that's great.

Will report back later!

Qualify for Legal Aid. Maxwell Gillott happy to take us on, documents are in the post.
Said we have a good case for appeal due to the needs/provisions listed in proposed statement.

Also drafted letter to case worker, (very polite!) but saying that due to his needs, MS would be inadequate. Therefore, I am unable to offer a mainstream school for them to pursue, but would reiterate that my preference is a SN unit, specifically xxxxxxx.

Meeting with ket worker this afternoon.

I'm going to keep posting on the thread as the advice I have recieved is invaluable and hopefully it can help others in the same situation.

Blimey, that's fast action!

Octonauts you are so right, it really shouldn't be like this. DD and I are 'negotiating' on DGS proposed statement now, very difficult when the LA Officer seems to know less about the law than us! Without this site we would be totally lost. The day we got the proposed statement I cried for hours but you have to remember these people see our children as files not people. It's not personal, they treat everyone like that. We intend to keep going until we get what DGS needs. Best of luck with your negotiations. Sorry to hijack but the mention of FOI is interesting; can we ask for a copy of the Panel's meeting under FOI?

Yes, but it is actually the Data Protection Act and called a subject acess request.

If you're going ahead with it it is sensible to list specifically the information you are after and then end it with 'plus all further files and documents regarding x'.

Don't expect the law to be adhered to though.

A way of catching them out is to put a request in to health and SS and school at the same times. This is because SALT might not have reason to
Weed' out a correspondence where SEN Case team do.

Oh, and you might want to ask for information held on YOU too if you've been particularly 'disruptive' because they can be careful to write nonsense on you that you'll not see if you just ask for info on your child.

Yeh! Great about the legal aid now you can kick some butt. I would leave to MG now. Once LA get wind of a Solicitor you might find they start being sensible and realise if they are not going to win this one they should give up early rather than spend loads of £ on costs.
Let the solicitor write any letters, thats what they are paid for and will mean less stress for you.
I wish every child got legal aid I am sure it would stop lots of stupid arguments by LAs in their tracks, they rely on parents being uninformed. Hopefully they will start to negotiate now.

Well a very funny thing has just happened- the case worker rang me to say that the date of birth error is just a database error and ha I decided on my mainstream choice as the manager had agreed 20hours a week and a review early in the year.

I said mainstream would be inadequate. He needs a specialist provision.

She said are you goin to appeal? If so, shell send me the meeting minutes and details on what to do next. She said it would e better to appeal part 4 of the proposed and if need be go to tribunal then.

She's going to put the mainstream school the unit is attached to in part 4, so it can be finalised by next Friday and I can then start the appeal process.

She asked me to e-mail er to confirm in writing that i feel mainstream would be inadequate ad I want this unit.

I am cautious but feeling quite positive. Maybe they are trying to lull me into a false sense of security but she agreed that t would be very difficult for a mainstream to meet his needs.

I told you. It's just the way it works.

No idea if your LA is being helpful or not tbh. Perhaps they were just trying their luck or perhaps they are hoping to head off an inevitable Data request by pretending they have sent you everything!?