termination for cleft palate

[Jimjams]

looks as if that story may have been true:

www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2092-904495,00.html

The title of the article says it all really....

Aloha, I'm glad to hear that PBA's don't happen here - if we haven't seen the need I wonder why the US has, until now? Musica, that technicality is appalling. It truly is stomach churning and I feel nothing but disgust for the doctors involved. I don't know how they can live with themselves.

As some of you may have read, I was involved with raising money in Indonesia for ops for children with cleft palate, which could be done for about $100, and gave them a normal life. If CPalate children can survive in a country that poor, surely raising such children is no problem at all in our wealthy country.

I was talking to dh about the cleft palate issue last night and he had a completely different take on it. He thought this issue was a storm in a teacup when society is happy to sanction abortions up to 24wks simply because the baby isn't wanted for social reasons. I must admit, I see where he's coming from but even so.....

Janh, my friend was told that neither she or the baby would survive the pregnancy if she didn't have treatment for the leukaemia and that the baby would die from the effects of chemo if she did have treatment so she was stuck between a rock and a hard place. She died about a year later. This was nearly 20yrs ago - maybe today she would have survived with the better treatments.

I'm off to see if your programme will download for me - my connex isn't too good atm. Thanks for posting about it.

I think it's freaky that the procedure was ever performed in the US, and I think pro-choice organisations have done themselves no favours in defending it there. I the vast, vast majority of social abortions (for reasons of not wanting a baby - any baby) happen earlier than 24 weeks. I also cannot understand a termination for cleft palate that late. I wonder what kind of information she was given - ie shown pictures children who had been successfully repaired etc.There is an interview with the vicar who is trying to get the case into court in the Mail today if anyone is interested. She's only 27!

aloha, she is on the Woman's Hour discussion I mentioned (link below) - it was about the cleft palate case, not the PBA issue. She is very articulate and sincere but she (and we) still don't know precisely why the abortion was performed because of confidentiality.

aloha, what do you mean by partial birth abortion?

Enid: There's a link (Jimjams?) describing PBA further down the thread. It's pretty horrific, I warn you.

Oops, the link is in a post from suedonim.

Oh god, I wish I had never asked

I feel so sad for the parents in the cleft palate case because surely they have been poorly advised and supported by the medical profession. (Apologies in advance to people in Herefordshire): I think it is no coincidence that all this took place in a rural county where access to consultants who really know their stuff might need arranging (trip to Brum, Bristol, Cardiff, whatever). I cannot imagine that any major hospital with a widely varying caseload would let this termination happen.
I wonder if the fact that CLAPA was a featured charity on the BBC programme Lifeline on Sunday teatime was also a coincidence. In ten minutes they showed so many before and after vignettes of children who now have no more to show for their "severe abnormality" than a thin scar on their lip. I must admit I cried, thinking of that baby in Herefordshire.
I also heard today that one of the best specialist units in the UK (in Poole) for operating on cleft palates at birth has just shut down due to NHS reorganisation.
I hope the curate's whistle-blowing obliges the doctors in Hereford to justify their actions without breaching patient confidentiality. And I hope that the parents are belatedly getting professional support after a decision that could haunt them for life.

I am pro choice but that sounds like something from the london dungeons or some horror film. How could you be left unaffected mentally by this and I can't bear to think what the baby feels. This is wrong!!

I am a diabetic mother of 3 boys, my 1st 2 were born healthy. My 3rd, came early at 34weeks, I had to have him by c-section as my other 2 also came into the world in the same way. He weighed 7.7lbs or 3.38kilos. I had many scans, right from the start, we knew something was wrong. I had heart scans at GOSH- enlarged right ventricle. NMH-exomphalos(intestines outside the belly). Homerton- CVS test, to check for chromosome defects, Edwards/Patersons/Downs syndrome, I was told that if my baby had these syndromes- 1, I could have a still born, 2, Baby would be born and die soon after, 3, With downs- need I say more, I sat at home for 4days, I was called on the phone with the results of this test, they take a piece from the placenta and there is a chance you could miscarry. The results were negative, I put down the phone and cried a solid hour. At this point my baby kicked for the 1st time, I was about 23weeks into my pregnancy. This was my baby telling me everything was going to be fine. Throughout this pregnancy I suffered a mild heart attack, I was 31years old, I had to have a MRI scan, as I talked my mouth would go off in the other direction- my mother suffered with a stroke in her 7th pregnancy, I was hypotensive, my blood pressure would drop to 60/40 towards the end of the pregnancy. And I have been an insulin dependant diabetic for almost 12years, my blood sugars were haywire. My baby could have been born with cleft palate, apperently most TOF babies have it. THERE IS NOWAY ON GODS EARTH THAT I WOULD HAVE TERMINATED HIS LIFE. Please tell me that this women, would have had a child with more problems than mine. Because I cannot bring my head round this. IT IS SICK.............

I have just reread my post and cried, I hope I haven't offended anyone...........

Haven't read the article, but isn't termination in the UK illegal after a certain point?????

Survivour, you are a true survivour. You have not offended. Your post here and on the expressing thread (of all places) are real inspirations. God bless you and your family.

goodness survivour- you were realy out through it. What an apt name. I can't see how anyone could be offended by your post- only in awe of you.

Tinyfeet- termination of a "normal" baby is illegal after a certain point- unless the mother's life is at risk. However termination of a "severe dusability" can be carried out very late. The problem is the definition of severe is not defined in law and is open to individual dr's interpretation. In fact according to the tax credit system my son is classed as severely disabled. So glad they can't pick up his condition on scans.

survivor you are a survivor and I admire you for telling your story. Well done to you and your boys

jimjams my dd is classed as severly disabled according to tax credits system too. I can honestly say I think people would be shocked at how well she is doing if they met her. She is a delight - our life would not be the same without her

Radio 5 (693 or 909 medium wave), any moment now.

JanH - I was told that abortion was an option, I was told that it wad not one that many people took, but it was an option.

I suspect part of the reason was my age (I was 17 at the time, and treated throughout (no, not throughout, but most of the time) like I would be a really bad mother).

The curate has permission to go ahead with her case : here .

Don't know if this means the details will become public.

Ah yes- just heard on the news it is going to judicial review. Good.

delighted. had a long chat with my mother about this on the weekend (she is gp) - she is horrified and can't believe that 2 doctors signed a blue form

Did you see that as well as having born with a jaw deformity (the word she used, though I think it's horrid) she also has a brother with Down's syndrome.

I am happy that this subject is being publicised but I cant help feeling sorry for the woman concerned IF she was ill informed on her decision

The woman organising the private prosecution is actually sympathetic to the woman - it's the doctors she is after as she believes they have broken the law. Much as I support a woman's right to choose, to terminate at that stage for something so utterly trivial in the great scheme of things is quite sickening. I told dh about it and he just said, "Can you imagine wanting to get rid of our ds just because of that? Poor little thing." I can't help feeling she's really missed out. And after reading Twinkie's post about her poor sister, well, to go through all that agony just over a fixable, short term problem, it baffles me.

Lets just hope that the woman organising the private prosecution is successful and hope that there is a change in the law that means doctors can't just offer terminations on a plate and that they must always go through the alternatives calmly and at length. If a woman is just offered a termination like that by a medical professional they are going to be really scared and think there must be a really good reason the doctor thinks this child shouldn't live. They may well take his offer for termination without really knowing the facts of what it would mean to have a child with a cleft palate / Down's syndrome or any other SN that can be picked up in scans / tests.