termination for cleft palate

[Jimjams]

looks as if that story may have been true:

www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2092-904495,00.html

The title of the article says it all really....

This has really quite upset me. A friend had her baby at 31 weeks and although she was in special care, she is wonderful now at nearly 2 years old
I really do hope that there was more tho the termination than we know about...otherwise it is quite disturbing and upsetting

maryz- in late terminations the babies are killed before the induction.

I seem to remember in a previous discussion about this there was a case (in the states?) where a baby did survive its own termination. Grisly.

this is really disturbing
I can;t imagine how you could...the poor woman who did it must be at the end of her tether
can't make judgements about her when i don't know her
all i know is that it has really upset me

only just picked up on this thread and haven't read all posts sorry. my nephew (now aged 2) was born with hare lip and cleft palate. it hadnt been picked up on any scans and was a complete shock to my brother and SIL. they found it very hard at first but have had nothing but wonderful support from the NHS and CLAPA throughout. Harry has now had two major ops now (first to create his top lip as there really wasnt anything there at first, and the second to join his palate as the cleft went all the wat front to back).

He is doing so well now and, unless someone told you, there is no visible signs left. His ops were done in Manchester on a specialist unit and the staff were / are fantastic. At the moment the only slight concern is he still is being quite slow at developing his speech - but the HV's say there is nothing to worry about. we know he will have to have more ops well into his teens (until his growth settles) but so far fingers crossed he is being an absolute star.

I can only agree that this story is worrying and upsetting and sit here thinking of my nephew feeling glad he is in the world.

I've only just picked up on this, and feel sickened and horrified. I have a ds who was born with a cleft lip and palate - this was discovered at the 20 week scan and I was offered an abortion. Ds is 5 now and has had 2 operations so far. We had a fantastic surgeon and ds is an incredibly beautiful little boy. His scar is tiny and most people don't notice. I wish I could post a piccie so everyone could see how grogeous my boy is!

As for the partial-birth abortions I feel physically sick. How is that not classed as murder????

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anais - the reason it's not classed as murder is because legally you can't murder something that hasn't been born. That's why they deliver the feet first - if the head was born then it would be murder. Amazing that they will actually work on such a technicality.

Personally I think it ought to be! I think it is a disgusting practice! And I too can't think of an example where the health of the mother would depend on it. The article cites depression (!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) - wouldn't you be more depressed after such an experience?

I cant read the articles because I know it will upset me too much. I really cant see how a termination at 32weeks can be justuified at all - even for a severe disability.

There was a little girl at my daughters nursery who had trisomy 18, with cleft lip/palate. She died when she was 2. I could not have justified killing her before birth - when she could have survived - I think it's sick and it makes me want to puke sorry

musica - that is amazing! Ok, the head is where the brain is but how are the feet any less a live, born baby? I think as soon as any part comes out, it should be counted as having been born. This whole thing is terrible! By then, the mother knows she's going to give birth so if she didn't want to she could have terminated in the 1st trimester and so if she's happy giving birth, why doesn't she and then have the baby adopted if she can't cope with it? I appreciate how painful it must be to have a baby die after one year or something, but shouldn't it be more painful to have a baby that never had a chance to live? If a year isn't 'worth living' then what about 2 years, or 3....10....15.....30....60?

Personally, I think I'd find it much more distressing having a PBA than having a baby who died later.

anais, they really suggested an abortion to you just for the cleft lip and palate? Then this case probably has been accurately represented. I was hoping it had been a Trisomy case. Appalling.

what a horrible, disgusting world we live in

Anais- how horrible! Offered an abortion at 20 weeks (!!!) for a cleft lip and palate. That is disgusting.

My cousin was born with cleft palate. He's needed a lot of ops and lots of SALT (whcih obviously he didn't get ) but he's fine. To terminate at 20 weeks - for his deformity - would have been sick sick sick.

I can well believe this- I do know of a number of people who have come under pressure to terminate for abnormalities (nothing like trisomy 18/13 btw- much less serious). There seems to be an assumption in many cases that someone will automatically terminate.

I think even if it is trisomy 32 weeks is sick....sorry

Partial birth abortion is never, ever carried out here and has never been carried out and never will be - it's considered to be unethical as well as never necessary. It's just been banned in the US too.

Yes I would tend to agree fio- I personally think 32 weeks is too late. However I know that a very bleak picture of trisomy 18 or 13 is usually painted. I think the scenario parents are given is that the baby will die hours after birth - so I can understand why someone would make that decision. Unfortunately as your the little girl at the nursery shows- they can live a lot longer (although I would imagine she was severely disabled).

yes she was jimjams but she was still lovely, it is sad

What's wrong with the people offering these terminations to parents? They should all be lined up and tried in court, struck off and given a few years inside to think about the lives they offered to end. Things really need to change. I don't understand how anyone can just hand out terminations on a plate because the child is seen as less than perfect in their eyes. It makes me so angry and so sad. All mothers who didn't take the termination offered to them so freely should all march up to the hospitals with their children and confront each of the **ers who thought they shouldn't live. When will the medical profession stop thinking this behaviour is acceptable?

WOMAN'S HOUR - NOW!!!

what channel is that janh????

Radio4: 92-95 FM.

Radio 4 doormat, sorry!!!

If you've missed it you can listen to it later - it's the first item on the programme - Radio 4 listen again index

this page has details of the contributors and also a link to listen again.

My God, that is horrifying Really heartbreaking stuff.

Can't read it all, I am trully disgusted, shocked and upset by this story.

I feel very strongly about terminations as it is. I think it should be illegal after 20 wks, but hey, thats just my opinion.

At 32 wks my ds was estimated to weigh 4lb!!!

WHY WHY WHY?????????