I need help or advice desperately about how to manage these situations. Autistic child tantrumming. Please help?

[himynameisfred]

Here is one example of the type of thing that happens on a daily basis, and what just happened now;

My 1 yr old was having a nap, he woke up crying and must have strumbled as he came to find me, I went to him to sooth him as he was half asleep and crying, in need of a hug, etc.
My 5 yr old son, autistic and easily the size of a 6-7 yr old came in growling and screaming as he didn't like his brother crying.
I warned him several times to be quiet.
He hated his little brother crying to grabbed him and ragged him around a bit while shouting a roaring 'no' at him.
I got up and told my older one 'NO' and pulled him out of the room, and went back to sooth a now hysterical DS2.
DS1 comes storming back in repeatedly roaring his head off and flailing, generally scaring his younger brother.
I tried to keep him out by holding the door and trying to calm my younger one.
It is SO SO unfair for my younger child to have to go through such frightening situations.
DS1 comes storming back in, I grabbed him and drabbed/pulled/carried him out.
I am 6 months pregnant, I should NOT be having to do that.

I have taken my 1 yr old (he's 22 months old but small for his age) before and fled the tantrums and locked us in the bathroom to get away from DS1 but DS1 grabs and pulls at us, he is VERY strong.
It's not safe for me to carry my younger one while DS1 is trying to pull me over.
I have no idea how I will manage these FREQUENT situations when my baby is born????????????

I finally came out of the room to find DS1 laying on the floor pulling and gripping at his own neck, looking like he'd been strangled, gasping 'mummy I hurt myself'.
I had to walk by and get DS2 downstairs, I then came back up and kindly but quietly brought DS1 down. Now he's watching TV.

I keep hearing that I can't get room locks as social services think they're child abuse.
Well how the hell am I to manage simple things, like breastfeeding when my baby comes?
I will need to at least get a lock for my bedroom door to keep me and baby safe during his outbursts.
And I thought about somehow padding my door on the outside, so when he's wacking into it to get to us it won't cause to much noise.
Then I thought my other smaller son will be left out and DS1 may go to him and hurt him.
So what is the answer, having my two younger ones in the same room as me to keept them safe?
OR I could get a lock for DS1's room to keep us all safe and settle while he has his tantrums, often at 3,4,5am.
But I'm going to get into trouble for locking him in his room right?

What ON EARTH am I supposed to do??

I will have to buys locks of some kind, and risk social services coming and accusing me of abuse, won't I??

Does anyone know how to handle this?

Is there anyone professionals who can help you deal with his behaviours, sometimes it's easier for other people to help than to do it all by yourself. Is there anyone who can help you out when the baby is born?

Please excuse my typing, I'm just stressed.

Sometimes there are special needs clubs who will look after your ds for a few hours a day.

I'm a single mum.
I left my partner as he was even worse with his tempers and was often destorying the house.
It's just me and the children now.
It's much better than before.

My sisters came come by a couple of times a week for breif visits, and they help when here.
I asked my step mum what she's do if she had an autistic child, she said give it up for adoption. That's how supportive my only parent is.

I have no support otherwise, no professional involvement.
Oh perhaps speech therapists and the paediatric consulting spare an hour 'helping' every 6 months.

I will be sounding very bitter right now, please excuse me.
I'll be back later in a better state :p
I'm taking the kids to the shop for some milkshake.
We're stuck at home constantly, so need to get out somehow.

Fred did I recommend the out of sync child book to you before? My friend's DD has this with crying babies. She has ultra sensitive hearing and goes off on one when she hears a baby cry. Friend's solution has been to not have another child which isn't going to work for you!

Can you keep a diary of things like what ds1 has been eating, what he's been playing with, how much indoor/outdoor time he's had and try to look for patterns.

If you haven't already found one a good sling will help keep your baby safe. The website slingmeet will tell you where local women are meeting to try different slings on and practice tying them.

Plus what April said above about getting support.

Sounds really hard for you. Don't blame you for being stressed but sounds like you're doing a good job. I don't know much about behaviour but hopefully someone will be along soon to advise.

Sounds like you could really do with some help, can your sisters or step mum help out more? I hope someone else has some better advice for you.

Sounds like your ds does need somewhere safe to cool down when he gets angry to keep your other children safe. I've heard of others having safe rooms. Can you be sure he won't hurt himself if left alone?

Sorry if my above post sounded flippant. Neither having another child nor having more but worrying about their safety are great options.

A couple of BTDT suggestions (though not as extreme as you describe)

1. Get your son some Peltor ear defendors, through EBay. We bought two pairs, so there is always one to hand. They will really help him. When a sibling is crying, get the ear defendors to him pronto.

1. help him find a safe and comforting space - a nest, where he can lie quietly without too much sensory input until everyone else has calmed down. Maybe all wrapped up in a duvet? I mean, that's something to do out of the moment so you can then say "safe space!!!!" and he knows that there is a place he can go to which will be quiet and warm and dark and comforting

1. (controversial alert) I wouldn't try to discipline a hysterical and melting down autistic child. He's not trying to be naughty, he's in the middle of a panic attack, or close to it. Get his ear defendors; get him into his safe space. Don't even discuss it later to tell him off - just offer comfort in whatever way will help him, once he has calmed down. Try to remove the trigger as much as you can, but don't be angry with him for having a panic attack - that just compounds his stress.

1. You've got a couple more difficult years ahead of you, but once the siblings are both over 18 months old, things really really will get markedly easier, I promise. They will begin to play with him at his level; they will do much less frightening random crying. In the hard patch between now and then, get yourselves outside to parks with only one exit as often as you possibly can... somehow, everything seems less fraught in the open air. (and week by week, as the little ones grow, you and they and he will find ways of reducing his triggers and living more harmoniously)

Oh, and...

try to find as much compassion as you can for your big boy. He's so overwhelmed and frightened by the world. I know it's hard when he's threatening to hurt the smaller children, because your mama tiger instinct kicks in for them. Of course you must keep them safe. But if you can do that from a place of compassion for your oldest, I think that will really help him.

When you have your sisters there to help, spend as much time as you can with your oldest, playing with him on his agenda, just really focusing on enjoying being with him. Even if it's just 20 minutes twice a week, that will make a big difference to him and to you and to your relationship.

(again, it probably sounds as if it's dead easy for someone not in your situation to be preaching - but it's another BTDT, and it has been a key part of helping everyone in my situation)

Sounds so difficult for you. I would second ear defenders. Or if he likes music a cheap mp3 with big overear headphones. Safe space could be a pop up tent in his room with cushions and blankets in. Perhaps the autistic society helpline could be of help. What you want to avoid is it being him against the rest of the family, with him feeling rejected. It is a really fine line to tread, Ommmward talks a lot of sense. Good luck

You have it very very tough and have had some great advice.
I used to feel really sorry for my twins because of their big brother's behaviour, but now they're 7 and he is 10 I can see so many positives. They are caring, compassionate, adaptable, strong minded kids because of their big brother.
I think you're underestimating your pregnant body, when I was huge with twins and dealing with ds1 I used to remind myself that some pregnant women run marathons.
I take it he's at school?
Are there holiday clubs that could take him-my area only has asd kids clubs when they're 8, but maybe yours is different?
Are you in touch with camhs? Request an urgent appointment with your paed-say your worried your young child's safety and at the end of your tether-he might be able to refer you for more help.
Refer yourself to Homestart-they can give you 2 hours a week help.
These really are the worst years and you will come out of the other side.

Could you look for a source of funding for one of these to use as the 'safe space' ommmward suggests?

We almost bought these for school but went with a more 'built in' option in the end. They look good, but pricey.

Safe Space

And important: safe space is somewhere your child puts himself when he chooses, never somewhere he is forced to go. A place you are forced to go becomes something else entirely!

We struggle with DS2's (5yo) reactions to DS3 (2yo) sometimes as well. DS3 is quite vocal and DS2 is not always a fan of it. Sometimes they happily shriek together almost in a "who can make the most noise" style.. and other times DS2 is falling apart shrieking at DS3, demanding that DS3 stop making noise (or doing whatever it is he is doing).

We've set DS2's room up so it's pretty child proof (as much as possible anyway), and he's got a safety gate on it that he cannot open quite yet (taller gate that has an alarm built into the handle lock). We've encouraged DS2 to look at his room as his "safe place" so that when he is upset and distressed over something, it's a place he can be alone, without his brother or anyone else bothering him. It's still very much a work in progress, but at least there is physical separation then and he has toys and books that he can relax with instead.

But we are watching him closely, as when he is able to open the gate, we are going to have to really rethink things a bit as it's simply not safe to have him roaming the house unsupervised.

What is BTDT? Sorry, just not heard of it. Great advice from everyone by the way.

When ds1 was 4 and ds2 was 1, I genuinely thought that one day I wopuld turn around to find ds2 ripped limb from limb.

I handled it by putting Ds1 in his room while he melted down (and ignoring DS2 for a minutes) and holding the door shut.

your ds1 may be the size of a six or 7 yearold but that is actually not that big. Pick him up and put him in his room.

On the subject of his room, a lower bunkbed makes a very handy safe space, you can drape sheets around it, fill i8t with cushions and let him keep a torch in there.

Been there done that

BTDT = been there done that
Fred - I totally feel for you. I really recommend nice big soft padded earphones that an plug into an MP3 player or a portable DVD player. Perhaps they could be a present from the new baby to your DS
Ommms advice is fantastic.

Oops I hit post too soon! My above message was in response to AprilSkies question.

Have you tried contacting your local social services team? You may able to get respite or direct payments. You need some help with this, I really feel for you.

If you want social services help, you will need to emphasise the dangers. Then (in our area anyway) quietly hold your nerve whilst they mutter darkly about asking child protection to assess since 'asd may not qualify for children with disabilities' input. Get someone nice at the children's centre, a good health visitor or your local councillor to reassure and support you during the process.

I have been there done that, and as someone above said, by the time the youngest reaches 18m things are usually much better. The worst day, I nearly dropped the eldest off at the town hall to social services. In hindsight, I would have benefitted from some specialist help with the meltdowns earlier.

With your DS, is it the noise of the crying, the little one needing you, something else? I found co-sleeping and breastfeeding really helpful cos I could usually stop the noise instantly with a boob, but obviously it only worked cos the sound really was the trigger. And not much help with the noise of your soon to be middle one unless you become a hardcore tandem feeder (smug... advice please!)

And another vote for slingmeet. Try starting a thread about special needs siblings: there seem to be a lot of SN mums using slings from necessity.

Hi fred, i just wanted to say that there is some really good advice on this thread, i hope it will help you and your dc's.

Loud noises are a big problen for myDd3. Anything from a child screaming to a motorbike to a knife on a plate really, genuinely hurts her ears.

I think that your lo is trying to tell you that he needs your help. Ear defenders and a safe space would be a great place to start. You could make a safe space with a pop up tent in a quiet place these can be bought from about £20.

Good luck and keep coming back to chat