Advice re ASD DS and school- long- sorry.

[WannaBeMegMarch]

My first request for advice.
My 8 yo DS is newly diagnosed with ASD (Aspergers) though I have known forever that he has problems. Since starting at school, I have regularly chatted to teachers and Head about the difficulties he has with sound, light, handwriting, PE etc etc. In fairness, the school have always been open to hearing and helping.
However, his big problem area (as I see it) is socially.

He has always struggled to make friends not least because it is an extremely sporty school. And he is a science head through and through. As a smaller child he couldn't run well so didn't partake in running/tag/chasing games. He started hiding birthday party invites when they stopped being at soft-play centres and his classmates started to have parties at football venues.

I feel it is coming to a head. Late last year, he invited all the class (approx 20 boys) to his birthday party. I had 4 apologies; and we went ahead and organised for the rest. No-one turned up. He was (still is) devastated.
This evening at dinner I asked if his class had missed him being out for 2 days (he was ill). He replied that 'why would they miss me- all the boys in my class hate me'. He later went on to say that some were teasing him 'we wish you were a football so we could kick you''.

Now I recognise that he doesn't get social rules. He doesnt get that most 8 year olds are not interested in the solar system or DNA. He doesnt get how to switch off his interests and listen to /feign an interest in others.
He is friendly with 2 or 3 other boys but from my observations they are kids who have their own difficulties. Thats fine and if it makes him happy- work away. But surely its not on that he feels the rest of the class have an active antipathy to him?
What can I do?

'we wish you were a football so we could kick you'' is more bullying than teasing. You should mention that to his teacher tomorrow, or send in a note

Can you move him to a different school?
My DD2 (also Aspergers) moved to a different school in September, and it's been ver ygood for her. She had been at the previous school for two years, and had never had a birthday invitation or a playdate and usually played on her own at every break. She's now at a smaller and more academic school where she fits in more and actually has a social life at school.

Another less drastic suggestion is to cultivate as many friendships outside of school as possible: are there any clubs for his special interests he can join and meet like-minded kids? Does he have cousins, do you have friends with children he can socialise with? They don't need to be the same age/gender, they just need to be nice!

Alfalfa I have considered moving him- but I think I am afraid that it's down to his social skills and that the problem will move with him IYKWIM.
But yes, I feel it's bullying- I didn't want to over react though.
He is in scouts (loves) swimming (loves) but so far I have failed to find a Lego/chess club for kids near here. He adores going to visit observatories, science museums, interactive play places. We went to a Tutankhamun exhibition which he is still talking about- but when he talks about it to school friends, I can see the eyes roll.
He loves visiting cousins but they are a minimum 90 minutes drive away so not feasible to drop in.
I dont know- I am a bit gutted. I wanted to dismiss the birthday party as a one off (though I was so angry at other parents for letting that happen) but it doesnt sound like that does it?

It sounds like his self-esteem has taken an awful bashing.

I am in Ireland and assume you are in the UK? So.. my knowledge of what's available may be way out, but.. DD2's new school actually has a chess club!Which she loves too.. Maybe there's a school in your area that has one, and you DS might be able to join the chess club if you explain the situation?

There is an organisation in Ireland that run social skills classes for children on the spectrum, perhaps the NAS would be able to tell you if there's anything like this in your area? Social skills can be taught to our children, it just takes them longer because it's not instinctive for them.

Also: asd parent support groups, find one in your area if you haven't already.. great for information-sharing, and friendships. For you and DS :)
I've met some lovely people through Irish Autism Action (our version of NAS), and we've met some lovely kids, too.

I was worried that DD2 would take the problem with her, too, but luckily there was another school nearby which is just much more suited to her. Her nerdyness is actually seen as a plus at the new school.
I know exactly what you mean, but do have a look around and see what's available. Maybe there's little or no choice in your area, but it doesn't sound like a really sporty school is ideal.

It's great that he likes spending time with his cousins, a shame they are so far away.. Perhaps you can organise regular weekends when he and you can go there, and they can come and stay with you?

Lastly, one thing I do for DD2 is try to make sure she has really good clothes and hair, because sad as it is they will be judged on those things.

I think you need to go in and have a strong word with his teacher. He is being bullied, and she may not be aware of it if he's unable to tell her when it happens iyswim. She needs to know about the party too, so she can hep his confidence.

I think you have a good case for an adult 1:1 for lunchtimes to actively help him to joiin in with games + watch and teach the other children that language like that isn't OK to use to one another as it is unkind. Not having common interests with someone is NOT the same as being nasty iyswim - live & let live is a valuable life lesson for the NT class methinks.

Or could an ASD outreach come in for a fortnight at lunchtimes to help with this specific issue?

Whatever you do, don't let it go as all NT kids are cruel until they are told it is so, without adult guidance (think of Lord of the rings). If you do this could either escalate into violence or your kid could end up too scared to even try and make friends when he finally does meet a like minded soul.

For the long term - as kids enter their teens they do tend to find interests other than football - there is usually a science/IT/geek clique in every year at secondary.

Forgive all my typos, been a long hard day!

Wannabe - His problems will 'move' with him, in that he will still have ASD and all his accompanying problems - but the way school will deal with it will change.

Some schools really are better at pastoral care than others. I moved my 3 from one state school to the next closest one, and I can't believe the difference.

At the new school there really is no bullying. Because the pastoral care is amazing. He has 90 in his year group instead of 30, and this has been a huge benefit.

I do think you should move school. Give him, and you, a fresh start.

And, I'm guessing from the way you describe the school, that it's a private school. I'm very, very wary of SN and private schools. I would look round your local state schools if you haven't recently.......

Thank you I am on school run so will come back after work.

Wannabe, I am so sorry your ds is having to go through this. We have been there with ds1 and you feel so helpless, but there are things you can do.

If you don't want to move him to another school, you are going to have to come down hard on the school to make sure they take it seriously and deal with it appropriately. Bullying is bullying, be it verbal, physical or social exclusion and shouldn't be tolerated in any school.

My ds is now 9, nearly 10 and has AS and at your ds's age was really struggling.

First of all you need to be keeping a record of all the 'incidents' and comments that your ds tells you about and then you need to arrange to see his teacher. I would ask in writing for a meeting stating what its about in the letter. This will start your paper trail for getting it dealt with properly by the school.

You could also ask for a copy of the school's anti-bullying policy, as this will give you a good basis to demand action and I also found it useful to quote from the sections about bullying from Tony Attwood's book, pointing out how easy it is for children with AS to be targetted by bullies.

If there is no joy from the teacher, you have to take it up a level. So either head of year, head or head of school - depending on the structure of your ds's school.

In each case, confirm in writing what was said at the meeting and what action has been agreed, including a date when its success/failure will be assessed.

Also, have Autism Outreach (or the ASD/CLD Inclusion Team as they are called around here) been brought in to support your ds and his teachers? This should have been done as soon as AS was suspected or at the latest once he got his dx, as there's a lot they can do to help. First of all they can do some staff training on ASD awareness, which will help teachers to understand and spot the signs of subtle bullying and/or social manipulation. Secondly they can arrange some peer awareness training, which usually takes the form of a general session around differences and tolerance, rather than discussing particular children and their needs. This brings the whole SNs topic out into the open, to be openly discussed by all the children and ensure that they are all aware of appropriate behaviour, inclusion and tolerance.

If the outreach people can't do this for a while, you can request that it is covered by the school under the remit of Social and Emotional Aspects of Learning, which is a compulsory element of the curriculum. It should have been covered already by this point and if it has, the children involved have absolutely no excuse, because they will already be aware of appropriate behaviour and inclusion.

Another idea is for the school to build a 'circle of friends' around your ds, where they select a number of appropriate children and work with them to develop a sort of mini-support group of friends who will look out for your ds. Again the outreach/inclusion team should be able to help with this. You can google for examples of how this has worked in other schools.

We have pushed for all the above things to happen and ds is now much happier at school. He still only has a couple of true 'friends', but the other children are far more inclusive than they were and more tolerant of his quirks.

Most importantly, we really pushed for the bullying to be dealt with, in my ds's case it was physical as well and pretty awful at times, but the emotional bullying was just as hard for him to cope with. With all our written and diaried evidence of bullying, the school had no choice but to tackle it swiftly and come down hard on the bullies. Their parents were brought in and they were given specific consequences for any bullying behaviour. The school also admitted their anti-bullying policy wasn't worth the paper it was written on and scheduled it for an immediate overhaul.

Another thing our school did was to mix up the classes before they went into this academic year. They moved his worst bullies and tormenters into the other class, but made it look like they were just mixing up the classes in general. They do this occasionally anyway in the upper juniors with classes that have been together a long time to prepare the pupils for being mixed up in secondary school, so it wasn't an issue. I think this, more than anything probably helped the most, because he no longer has to share a classroom with them so doesn't have the constant low-level bullying, snide remarks, accidentally being bumped into or having his stuff knocked off the table etc to deal with and the bullies now mix with boys from the other class at playtime rather than with ds's class.

With regard to birthdays, I always keep them small and dictate a definite number of friends allowed. In ds's case he is allowed, three friends maximum plus his brother and cousin. This means that I can easily chase the parents to make sure they're all attending and also we get to do more fun things because it costs less. Shame on the other childrens' parents for letting that happen to your ds, it makes me so angry when parents don't model appropriate behaviour to their children. They are effectively allowing them to grow up into bigotted predjudiced bullies.

He hasn't been invited to any of the other boys' parties - other than his best friend's - since early infants when they stopped doing whole-class invites. We try to balance this by making sure he has his friend round to ours maybe once or twice a term and making his favourite tea etc.

Sorry for the humungous post. I just know what it feels like to be in your shoes and wanted to get all my ideas for improving things down while I have the chance.

If you look for another school which is highly clued up in dealing with Aspie, ASD kids you might find one which will handle it much better.
DCs school always has about 1 ASD kids per class, sometimes more, and the kids are usually pretty integrated (I don't think it always works as well for girls, but girls that age can be horrid). With the trickiest end of the spectrum, the ones who are most obviously "different" not just "a bit odd", the school has done things to reward kids for making efforts to reward kid for making an effort with them.
Not all schools are the same.
This is even more crucial to remember when looking for one for the next very tricky stage, adolescence can be very tricky.

Thank you all.
I'm glad (well not glad but you know..) that you agree it's bullying. I felt it was but it feels dramatic to go to school and say that.
I met teacher briefly on the way to class this morning and I relayed the bit about 'they all hate me'. Her response was that he was blowing it up in his head. I pressed on with the bit about guys wanting him to be a football but she glossed over that saying 'he was for the birds yesterday'.

I am going to have to move him aren't I?

I feel exhausted at the thought of it. I can't see it happening before the summer...so in the interim, I cant let this go on.

From what you have said, a written comment to the school about this is the first step. I have tried to be nice (honey, flies, vinegar) but I need to have this recorded now dont I?

At the same time, I should approach other schools and hope they dont shut the door in my special needs face.

If you go to a state school they can't turn you away because of SN.

I really recommend statenot private.

If you go state you can move tomorrow! Ring the LEA, find out which schools have places, ring the schools .... The whole thing can be done in a couple of days.

at the teacher's response.

As Indigo said, if you do want to move him and get onto it straight away, it can actually happen pretty quickly. It doesn't necessarily follow that he will be treated the same way at every school, some schools just don't suit some children and vice versa, whereas in the right school the same child can really bloom.

If not, definitely get onto to getting things documented and recorded and as the teacher is obviously not taking it seriously, personally would move up a level of school contact as well. Alternatively, book an appointment/meeting with the teacher specifically to discuss the bullying and make sure you document it, they don't always take quick chats in the playground seriously enough, so better if its more formal. I'd be involving the SENCO as well at this point, ours would seriously put her foot down on any teacher not taking complaints of bullying seriously whether it involves SNs or not (I do know we are very lucky to have her though).

Just to add start keeping a diary. Of the bullying, but also promises made by the school.
Also if you find a school that seems to "get it" but is full, see if the head or SENCo can recommend another school. It's not always the Ofsted outstandingd which are the best.

Moosemama, mummytime...you've suggested diarying the bullying. Often, he doesnt tell me whats happened- or he will tell me something but say that it happened ages ago. But he has come out with the comment that 'they all hate me' and he has said that I dont know what its like for him when it's awful. I have written those down when it happened. Will that be enough do you think?
The ASD team person came and observed him at school and (I think she thought she was clever to spot this) saw him stimming in class. She said she feels that OT for his sensory issues is the priority....and I kept trying to say that for him, the sensory stuff keeps him happy; the social failure is undermining him.

This afternoon, I was really feeling worried - I kept thinking- this is the child who commits suicide when they're 15 and everyone wonders why no-one saw it coming
He has extra teaching hours but school/SENO didnt feel he needed an SNA.

You can only go with what you have at the moment, but if I were you I would try to get into a routine of asking him every day how things have been. With my ds, we started a feelings diary and we are lucky in that its now supported by school and he fills it in three times a day, after morning lessons and break, after lunch and just before he comes home.

I designed it myself, so nothing fancy, just a basic table typed in Word with three columns - days of the week down the left-handside, then a selection of basic emoticons ranging from sad to grinning in the next column and finally a blank column to write in.

To start with it was just once a day and often we filled it in when he came home from school. He simply circled the appropriate emoticon/s for how he felt the day had been and then we wrote down a sentence or two about why he chose those emoticons. Its even better if you can get him to write it himself (this was an issue for my ds as he has a thing about handwriting) as its first hand evidence of what he's going through - but if not, if you can note down what he says instead. By doing this you will start to build up a real picture of his school days that you can use in discussions with the school and document as and when necessary.

There should be some ongoing support available from the ASD team. Ds1 has a 45 min session with his 'ASD Teacher' once a week and generally he uses it to talk about anything that's worrying him at school and/or she talks through various situations that have come up and how they can be dealt with. She also discusses any concerns with his teachers and advises them on the best way to support him. She regularly writes little social stories with him about things that have happened in the playground.

When you say he has extra teaching hours, does he have a statement? If so, whether or not the SENCO feels he needs an assistant, he should be getting more support. If he does have a statement, what does it say about how his hours should be distributed?

We are just going through Statutory Assessment with ds and the general feeling is that he doesn't need full time 1:1, but does need someone to facilitate better social inclusion, support him in coping with his anxieties and generally help him with the less academic aspects of school life. Its envisaged that this would take the form of meet and greet in the morning to discuss what he needs to hand in, what equipment he needs, any changes to the school day and also how he is feeling, if he has any worries etc. Similar thing again at lunchtime and again at hometime, plus access at specified times throughout the day to deal with any issues that may arise, some 1:1 support during certain lessons and of course helping him to fill in his feelings diary.

It can be done, but it does require a rhino hide, a pair of steel-capped butt kicking boots and a trusty pointy stick to get your message across and you have to be sure that its right for your ds, as opposed to moving him to a school that would suit him better.

Nowhere was less interested or less supportive than my ds's school when we started out on this road, I have had to work long and hard to get them to wake up to their responsibilities and fortunately, there has been a sea change in the whole school's attitude to SENs in general. We had a crap SENCO, no SENCO at all for while, then a locum one (for want of a better word) but now they have taken on a fantastic lady with lots of experience, who genuinely cares about every single child she deals with. Neither the Inclusion team or Ed Psychs had had contact with the school in years and now they are there on a weekly basis, even several times a week, helping numerous children. This has all happened since my ds fell to pieces back in the academic year 2009/10, so not all that long really for such a big change to take place.

Its really scary and heartbreaking being where you are now, I do understand, I felt exactly the same way about ds, with the same serious worries about his future - and don't get me wrong, those fears are still there in the back of my mind to some extent. I wanted you to know it can get better, you just need to set your jaw, get stuck in and take no prisoners. Do whatever is right for your ds, be that fighting to get him into a better school or fighting to sort out the one he's already in. As Atilla would say - "You are your ds's best and only advocate".

Wannabe,

re your comment:-

"He has extra teaching hours but school/SENO didnt feel he needed an SNA".#

Gah!.Sometimes such nonsense is said because the school does not want the work. SENCO's already failed him by saying that to you, he is being failed in this schoo along with being bullied.

Look at other state schools, avoid the private sector as they can operate outside the LEAs remit.

Statements too can also be used to address social/communication issues; they are not just for academic issues.

I would certainly suggest a new school and applying for a Statement yourself from the LEA. No-one else will do it so you will have to, you are his best and only advocate here.

You feel exhausted and that is understandable but neither of you can go on like this so change is necessary.

OK I've reached that tipping point where this is just not going to happen any more.
At home time this afternoon, his class teacher called me aside (died inside- what had he done?) She said something 'nasty' had happened today. One of the boys invited to his party last year (i.e. before Christmas hols) took the invite out of his own bag; the invite was ripped up and thrown in DS' face. Another boy then copied the first.
According to the teacher, both boys were spoken to by the HT. Both had disciplinary 'green cards' issued. Their parents will/have been spoken to.

I said to her that this was becoming a pattern. She agreed. I said that my DS had shown great tolerance and she agreed that he is 'tolerant'. But I said that it is not for him to always be the tolerant, coping one.
She then went on to say that he was playing with his hands a lot in the afternoon (he stims with both hands in front of his eyes...in spite of this he is able to attend to class and learn- I have been sitting in class seeing him do it as has local ASD team liaison- he answers difficult questions addressed to the class while stimming) . All I could think to say was that it helps keep him calm and he must have needed it today !!!!.

I will compose a letter to the HT and teacher over the weekend and talk to the SENO on Monday.

This is really nasty isn't it? What should I put in the letter- just about this incident or the series of things (I've noted dates as going along).

I'm so sorry.

I would definitely include everything that you have noted so far, as well as detailing exactly what happened today.

When things reached a similar point with my ds I dropped the letter into the office marked urgent in the morning and made an appointment to see the Head that afternoon while I was there, making sure they knew he needed to read the letter first. I also picked up a copy of the school's anti-bullying policy at the same time - and then told the Head it was a waste of paper when I met him - he agreed!

I quoted Tony Attwood's book about how easy it is for children who have ASD to be bullied and how often the bullying is of the 'under the radar' type. I also said that I would be forced to remove my ds from the school for the sake of his mental health if serious action wasn't taken immediately.

Your ds absolutely should not have to be being tolerant and in order to cope, must be internalizing such a lot, which ultimately can't lead to anything good for him. I would probably make a point of mentioning that in the letter as well.

Do use the word bullying, because that is exactly what this is and there is no excuse for the school trying to dress it up as anything else.

My ds reads when he can't cope in class. Bizarrely he can be reading a book and without looking up, still answer all the teacher's questions. It took a whole year for his Y4 teacher to realise this, but this year's teacher had it sussed in the first couple of weeks and now allows him to read when his anxiety levels are high.

Could you perhaps have a gentle conversation with him to sound out whether or not he would like to move to a new school? I know my ds was horrified when I suggested it and also didn't want to be home schooled, so working with the school to deal with the problems was really our only option. Well, that and the fact that all the other local schools are also over-subscribed and have an even worse reputation in terms of SNs support and provision.

Stand your ground, the school have a duty to support your ds through this and to deal swiftly and effectively with the obvious culture of bullying and intimidation. Also, make sure you come away with some definitive strategies along with details of when/how they will be put into place and confirm what was agreed back to them in writing. If possible get a second appointment booked in to follow up on what is discussed and agreed at this one.

Is it half term where you are next week? I hope your ds has the chance to get a good break from it all and go back knowing that he has you fighting his corner.

moosemama thank you for your comments.
I actually did start that conversation with him in the car after school...I think he was startled and his immediate reaction was 'no'! so I left it and told him to have a think about it.
Thanks to your references I googled Tony Attwood and I found a few choice quotes..like 85% of bullying is done without the presence of an adult witness, 'why should the ASD child change- there's nothing wrong with them' and he talks about the role of the bystander...that they need to be taught to speak up, as the 'predator' wont act without an audience.
I dont have his book, but if I can I will get to library as they have it checked in.

While I dont want to move him as such (he will have issues with change and novelty etc) I am now at the point of not caring whether school thinks I am threatening or not. This has really been going on since he arrived there- they are only listening to me since diagnosis in the Autumn.

Oh I could keep on about this all night- I am fuming now.
In a way, it is a good thing as it has lit the fuse in me to get something done about it.

Keep that fire in your belly, it'll stand you in good stead, but equally don't worry if you find yourself getting tearful when you meet with them, it only serves to remind them that you are a loving parent who fundamentally is worried about their child.

You can get most of the chapter on bullying off Amazon, but using their 'Look inside' and 'search inside this book' feature. here Its chapter 4, page 95.

If he doesn't want to move schools and is adamant about it, what about at least moving classes? That way, at least he wouldn't have to face the subtle stuff that goes on in class every day. I know my ds is so much happier since they mixed up his year group. Not only did it remove his main bully to the other class, it also broke up some of the little bullying cliques that had formed over the years by separating ring-leaders from their followers, iyswim.

Thank you

Wannabe where do you live? I have an eight year old with asd. He would be fascinated by the solar system and DNA.

(and his classmates sound like shits)

colditz thank you for saying so. I have been reluctant (or scared?) to call a spade a spade.
Perhaps I thought he could be taught coping strategies or that he could reform himself into something he is not.....
But I have got to a point of cold hard fury now.
Discussing it here has stopped me going off like a volcano...and that is a good thing because I dont think school know what is coming in to them on Monday. I am looking back over the diary of events (that something prompted me to start) and I am more like a lava flow....unstoppable.

Why the hell should my gorgeous, talented, generous, gentle boy have to reform himself to cope with a gang of thugs?
Why should he restrict his interests and ideas just because they are not in line with everyone else?