French Approach to Autism

[dolfrog]

and interesting article A French Film Takes Issue With the Psychoanalytic Approach to Autism and the film with translation subtitles

Interesting article. I thought all that stuff was forgotten now and people where more into behavioural approaches. Very sad story for the boy.

Thanks dolfrog. There was an article in the Peach magazine a few months ago by a French mother saying what a dreadful time they'd had in France where aba is considered to be dog training.

If you think the French approach is bad...I could write a film script about my experience in French Switzerland that would raise hairs on the back of your neck. Scandalous and scary. That's why I am planning to get out as soon as I can get schools in Hampshire.

Wow.

Just,wow.

I have just watched the film.

I have no words.

I haven't watched the film yet but my experience of the French health care system so far is that they are incredibly well funded but enormously behind the times, insular and dogmatic about their approachs, which seem to be set at national level and admit to no discussion, exceptions or flexibility.

Anyone seen 'My name is Sabine', made by the French actress Sandrine Bonnaire, about her autistic sister who deteriorated dreadfully in a hospital where she was incarcerated because her parents couldn't cope with her at home? That put paid to the few ideas I had of of moving to France.

I do think we are relatively forward thinking here, from everything I've heard about approaches to special needs in mainland Europe

Haven't read the article yet, nbut just wanted to add that it's maybe a mainland european thing. We left Holland primarily because of the medical system and attitudes to disability. There the medical system is ok if you ar efit and healthy, but if you're disabled then our experience was that our son was 'written off' even befor ehe was born.

I can't read it, would upset me. But just last night in, "George and Sam" I read a chapter about this and the author thinks that as far as autism goes, psychotherapy is based on false assumptions.

"There's something about autism that makes it more psychotherapy-resistant than any other condition. When it comes to the imagination, the emotions, the operation of the subconscious, there's very little common ground. The usual instincts just aren't there"

And she also mentioned, Beata Rank, a psychologist who said, "the autistic child has suffered gross emotional deprivation... the younger the child, the more necessary it is for us to modify the mother's personality"

Refrigerator mothers again. Wish my fridge could breastfeed, co-sleep and also raise NT children.

Crock of shite.

My favourite bit off the documentary was where the psychoanalyst explained the biology behind autism: the foetus gets half its chromosomes from the mother and half from the father (OK so far), the mother is fine with her half in the baby (come again?), but develops antibodies to the half of the baby that comes from the father (she does what???), the antibodies cause autism (now you're just making it up aren't you?).

Although the old lady psychoanalyst claiming that depressed mothers cause autism, being asked whether there was a higher incidence of autism in areas with more depressed women (war zones, poor areas) and responding that she has no idea as that is not her field she only knows about her practice, also takes the biscuit! It's not as if anyone has done any research on this after all, or as if there are computers or libraries you can consult to find out what other researchers may have to say about all this!

Then again the catch-22, if you are depressed your child gets autism but if you overdo it with love your child gets autism, was a good one as well.

I am ranting now, but I needed to after watching this film!

What a load of s**t, never listened to so much rubbish in my life and i only watched first 5 mins. OMG i thought i was bad where i stay in scotland, trying to get help etc i am so glad i dont stay in France. Cant believe this is professors talking.

And there will be French-trained doctors working here in the UK who hold these views.

I met a doctor..yep french when my DS2 (asd) was admitted to hospital with fecal impaction. His attitude was APPALLING. He tried to question my son.. in pain, distressed and as he has LDs too, didn't understand what he was saying... and , well let's just say it's the first time I have ever been rude to a 'professional' It was obvious his understanding of autism was zero.

One of the lovely nurses later said she enjoyed every minute of watching someone finally telling him to sod off. His attitude was something that thankfully I have never come across before or since!

I refuse to let DS be seen by any doctor who has not trained in the UK. Seriously. It was a foreign doctor who couldn't even pronounce Aspergers, let alone know anything about the condition, who misdiagnosed him.

I don't think that a foreign trained doctor necessarily understands enough about our upbringing, society, schools, etc to undertsand the problems our children face. When you also consider that psychiatry is a 'talking treatment' and the fact that some of the the language / figurative speech / idioms they may not be familiar - disaster. It was for us.

That might be a good plan, WA. I've spoken before about DS' bonkers Paed who has NO understanding of autism at all.

She of, "oh, but you could say that MY son has mobility problems too. He is NT but he still needed a pushchair at times on our mountain-climbing holiday" FFS.

Have googled her and her field of expertise is children with malnutrition in developing countries

She is, however, a very VERY "good" Paed given the number of clearly-autistic children I know who have been refused a dx. Good for the budget, that is.

I allways google them and check them out on the GMC Register.

Seriously Winter - why are you wasting your time seeing this Paed?

I basically dislike Paeds in general when it comes to ASD as ASD is not something a generalist (which is all a Paed actually is) is best placed to dx.

I would seriously ask to be referred to a specialist in the dx of autistic spectrum disorders. You are leaglly entitled to a 2nd opinion. I demanded one and got it.

Is okay. DS was dx at 2.9 on the spot by a knowledgeable paed who is an associate of hers and is now under another associate who is affiliated to his special school.

It doesn't stop me from being sad about the other children though

Phew - glad to hear it

Yes - Paeds like her have no place in the NHS

They have a very valuable place in the NHS, sadly, especially when parents are vulnerable and uninformed

That's what really does annoy me about the NHS - the inability to chose.

I've been lucky as after the ms-dx experience I do research every doctor. I have refused 2 psychiatrists now and also managed to get both my recent ops carried out by the best surgeons in the area. I just asked GP - if you required this op which surgeon would you chose - and please refer me to them.

I know what you mean. My mother is seventy with moderate controlled dementia but she is also unable to eat much and has gastric problems. She was always trim and fit but she is shrunken and frail now. Every time she goes to an appointment to find out what is causing this she is fobbed off.

The scan revealed nothing. The machine we need for the detailed scan isn't here yet. The camera you swallowed got stuck. We'll just treat your anaemia. WTF? Anaemia could be a sign of internal bleeding and a serious problem!

If I were more cynical I'd think that it's NHS policy to delay treatment

No, I AM this cynical having seen what happens to children. To the future population. It is bloody awful.

I might watch the film tomorrow. I have an ASD and if I do it now my recorder mind would play it all night.

I'm in France. This shows how the establishment treats autism. It does not show many of the new developments in autism support that have happened over the last 10-15 years. Sophie Robert (the person who made this film) actually started out convinced by psychoanalysis but was so shocked by what she saw that this is the result. The resulting furore over this film is good because it is what will eventually make the establishment here see reason over the handling of children (and adults with autism).
However, I can tell you that this is NOT by a long way our experience. I am quite taken aback by the idea that you all think that French doctors are mean and uncaring and have no experience of autism. That says more about the individual doctors than the fact they are French. I am more shocked by what I hear about coming from the UK: have in fact decided to stay put in France for the moment because the treatment we get here seems to be so much better than what is available in the UK. For example, DD has middle-functioning autism. She is in a special needs unit attached to a mainstream school. As well as her small class and specialist teacher. She has a part-time 1-to-1 who is trained in both ABA and TEACCH who also comes to our house once every couple of weeks and works with her at home and provides the link between school and home. I get ongoing training in autism support provided by her school. DD used to get speech therapy twice a week: this is now reduced to once a week because she is going to a special leisure centre for children with learning disability where she does group speech therapy, plays board games, reads and does other activities specially adapted to her abilities. She sees an OT once a week at school. She has a sensory diet that is constantly updated and adapted to her needs, carried out by her TA. There are three ABA schools, funded by the National Education Authority that have been set up in this region alone in the last two years. Unfortunately there is a big waiting list for places, but I think that is the same anywhere. The people who did this are also setting up adult residential / day centres as they have noticed that they are lacking in France. I could also point out that I get (as far as I can tell) about double in benefits what I would get in the UK, even before the cuts. And I am able to work part-time.
I'm not trying to say that it is perfect here, but that there are a lot of good people doing a lot of things to change the way that autism is treated and supported. This film is part of that movement and we are all very grateful to Sophie Robert for what she has done.