French Approach to Autism

[dolfrog]

and interesting article A French Film Takes Issue With the Psychoanalytic Approach to Autism and the film with translation subtitles

My experience of France is that they have a lot of money and if the doctors think the patient needs something absolutely no expence will be spared to get it for them. Unfortunately this is not true in the cash strapped NHS where docs often have to compromise on patient care to save cash simply because there aren't enough resources to satisfy all needs (ditto with social and educational needs).

However, French docs are extremely paternalistic, they have no concept of patient choice or real understanding of consent. This is reflected in French law which allows French docs to override patient refusals in the best interests of the patient.

At the same time many French docs are very insular, do not speak English, do not follow research done in the English-speaking world and therefore are behind current developments - not helped by the fact that many of them are homeopathy fanatics!

petersham

I had heard the same as Petersham on another website, about extremely worrying and outdated attitudes to special needs in France (and Spain/Italy). Honestly , anyone who is still in the refrigerator mother camp is in the dark ages and needs to get an education.

OK - sorry about the swearing but really, in many ways, my life is in tatters because of this type of thinking. Prospective emigrants with SN children need to be warned - they are bonkers. There is an entire town of people and several surrounding villages in France who are talking about our fragmented family in these terms and will drown in ignorance forever more (just as well that they never really travel abroad/marry out of their circle). It is really irksome though even more tragic is the fact that I will have to try and explain to DS one day just why his father turned into a psycho and beat him up, before turning into our arch-enemy after being brainwashed by this crap. Thirteen years of marriage undone in a few crazy weeks.

It's really odd isn't it the attitudes globally. E.Europe (hungary & romania) has AMAZING stuff going on for asd kids so long as you aren't of gypsy origin in which case you'll be treated as subhuman whatever your abilities.

Ibadan in Nigeria (ya know that 3rd world country the meeja tells us is full of fundamentalist nut jobs and internet scam artists) is in the process of setting up it's first aba school. The Nigerian women behind this iniative are incredible human beings who will never receive any public acclaim - but oh they deserve to!

In Norway ABA is the standard approach, in the US treatment is fantastic "IF" you have the hard cash otherwise your child will be left to rot.

Then here in the UK I've faced this "french refrigerator mother" attitude from my local cahms, (British wasp staff - NOT immigrants!) so it's not restricted to France sadly. I've also seen wonderful thngs being done for our children here.

To summarise I'm not gonna criticise the French as I think we still have too much work to do on this side of the channel. The VAST majority of our children with asd are failed. This board only represents a small subsection of the most educated, motivated parents and is far from typical, yet many have fought battle after battle to get their child the right help.

Petersham I am so sorry [Sad]

I recently met a community paediatrician from another area. He had a very good understanding of ASD, and we had an interesting discussion about the possible factors behind the massive increase in diagnosed asd locally.

And, before anyone asks, he doesn't even know DS1 has SN. This was a chance meeting with someone I know slightly, and the chat was along the lines of 'How's work going these days'?. I've no idea about the French, but in my (limited) experience, the NHS has snapped up some great Iraqi doctors.

Iraqi doctors - I'll look out for those

Brioche - I am glad you are happy with the services being provided in your region. Of course my experience was limited and bad (never marry into a French neuro-quackologist family, I guess, or at least be aware of what you are letting yourself in for)

Bochead- I do actually agree. It was my dissatisfaction with what was being offered here which led me there in the first place. We have a long way to go - DS has an annual review with SLT next week ... except that they haven't provided him with help for three years, and about a year ago told me that their dept could not help children like him. Just an excuse to put me in my place, refer onwards and keep people in jobs, I am guessing - Fun and Games.

From Dorothy Bishops blog Psychoanalytic treatment for autism: Interviews with French analysts which has been doing the rounds on twitter.

A further article Independent Accounts on the Dramatic Situation of Autism in France: Live Talk Show on French NPR

Thanks for the links Dolfrog - I really wish that I had known about this earlier on - It might have saved us from walking into an inferno with our eyes closed

Anybody here fluent in French, at least enough to understand this news item? It starts at 15 minutes 33 seconds into the video
jt.france3.fr/1920/

Can everyone here understand French then? Because I can only get a very basic gist. I thought there were supposed to be subtitles.

I'm French and just moved back to France last year and DD has been dx with mild autism in the last few months - its been just awful getting anyone with proper attitude on the topic of autism. I've been accused of all the things mentioned above.

We had to get a private dx in Ireland where DH is from to push things here.
I'm so shocked at how much behind my own country is because of the psychoanalyst lobby, it's beyond words.

So far I've found a PECS trained speech therapist and an ocupational therapist who seems quite good as well... and that's it. AFter the dx I got abroad the mother-accusing child psychiatrist I had seen initially has been kind of helpful - I bet he's scared I sue him for professional failure.

If I didn't have exposure to the english speaking world my DD would be just condemned to one of those bloody autism centres for life.

Minximom May I ask you why French speaking Switzerland is worse? We live near the border, DH works in Geneva, and we were hoping Switzerland was better and maybe move there? I'd be super grateful for your advice.

This is the same French news clip I posted before, but it is now on youtube, it might be easier to load. No English subtitles though. It is about treating autism with antibiotics. So not everyone in France is treating autism the same way. (Thanks to a poster called claig who translated a bit of it in the News forum.)
www.youtube.com/watch?v=F5c_L0-yB4w

Now with English subtitles www.youtube.com/watch?v=yOno_2m_8LY

It says there are 10 doctors in France treating autism with antibiotics, which doesn't sound very many.

Interesting article about bacterial infections and treatment by antibiotics

www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2106125/Strep-throat-minute-OCD-How-bacterial-infections-children-cause-behavioural-issues.html

Hello,

I wanted to add to this thread that there is a forum for English-speaking families living in France here:

groups.yahoo.com/group/specialneedsfamilies_france/

The forum welcomes parents of children with any special needs, but many have children with autism and are fully integrated and trying to find the best services for their children here. Things are moving forward in France. For sure, there are still doctors who are light years behind the times, but some are as competent and caring as any in other countries. It's only by peer-to-peer help that parents can find these doctors, so please pass on the word.

Thanks,
Momo

The NHS community peadiatrician who diagnosed my DS (we already had a private doagnosis prior to that and had started arranging our ABA programme) had never HEARD of ABA.

Momo, I would start a new thread yourself. This one is a year old and people may not get to your post.

I was told by an English paed that a dx of asd "would not help" my son and that by trying to get one I was damaging his future.
It's not just French doctors folks!

Sorry, I haven't read all of this thread but have known about the scandal of the approach to ASD in France fir some years. They got taken to one of the European courts some time ago because of the classification of autism as psychosis. The NAS was on the case against France as part of European group of autism societies. This all explains my utter distrust of the Tavistock (which is near to where I live) when it comes to autism.